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Post by thelonewolf527 on Oct 19, 2012 0:39:02 GMT -5
Random long post ahoy. The UFC is a cruel business in the "What have you done for me lately?" way. Chael Sonnen mauled Anderson "The Spider" Silva, the greatest pound-for-pound fighter perhaps ever to engage in any form of hand-to-hand contact for four and a half rounds. He almost did the thing that the entire Middleweight division cannot. Then he lost because Anderson Silva is Anderson Silva. Sonnen responded by coming out and beating the hyped Brian Stann (He's a decorated military man, you know) handily with an arm triangle. So the hype was still there. Sonnen was winning. Sonnen was going to win one or two more matches and this time he'd know how to avoid the miracle triangle and take the title off the champion. Then...well... 2012 happened. He started the year looking sluggish and couldn't bully Michael Bisping. However he won via "Judges Want to See Sonnen/Silva 2." He followed this up by getting legal permission to dope up with TRT which garnered criticism towards him. After running his mouth everywhere...to the point that I believe propaganda leaflets were dropped in foreign countries where starving children wondered "Who is this Silva and why is this Sonnen going to step on him like a spider?!"...he ran his mouth some more. Then some more. Then some more. Then Silva promised to murder him in the cage. Then Silva murdered him in the cage. So, what we have from Chael Sonnen is sustained hype that garnered him a rematch despite a sluggish Fox channel fight where fans booed the decision that was completely dashed in the second round of his rematch when Anderson Silva embarrassed him like a nerdy kid in a high school gym class. He then immediately ran to interviews and started claiming "CHEAT CHEAT!" despite the fact that Silva didn't cheat, making him look ridiculous. Then he began trashing any and everyone to try and get a fight. Thankfully the Jones thing came up and he went back to talking like he's a world beater despite the fact that the entire world has seen him beat. People try to discredit Brock Lesnar as always a fraud because of his last MMA fights. People say Fedor Emelianenko is a fraud because he lost 3 out of his last 6 career fights. And I believe people will think that Sonnen is an unworthy opponent and that the fight is not worthy of their money. That's my opinion. I don't see Jones/Sonnen bringing in a million buys. Considering Jones tends to be a lower drawing champion (Who has openly complained about the Machida rematch because their PPV didn't do as well as expected) I'd personally be amazed if it got 600,000. Is it even gonna be on pay-per-view? |
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 19, 2012 2:12:40 GMT -5
Random long post ahoy. The UFC is a cruel business in the "What have you done for me lately?" way. Chael Sonnen mauled Anderson "The Spider" Silva, the greatest pound-for-pound fighter perhaps ever to engage in any form of hand-to-hand contact for four and a half rounds. He almost did the thing that the entire Middleweight division cannot. Then he lost because Anderson Silva is Anderson Silva. Sonnen responded by coming out and beating the hyped Brian Stann (He's a decorated military man, you know) handily with an arm triangle. So the hype was still there. Sonnen was winning. Sonnen was going to win one or two more matches and this time he'd know how to avoid the miracle triangle and take the title off the champion. Then...well... 2012 happened. He started the year looking sluggish and couldn't bully Michael Bisping. However he won via "Judges Want to See Sonnen/Silva 2." He followed this up by getting legal permission to dope up with TRT which garnered criticism towards him. After running his mouth everywhere...to the point that I believe propaganda leaflets were dropped in foreign countries where starving children wondered "Who is this Silva and why is this Sonnen going to step on him like a spider?!"...he ran his mouth some more. Then some more. Then some more. Then Silva promised to murder him in the cage. Then Silva murdered him in the cage. So, what we have from Chael Sonnen is sustained hype that garnered him a rematch despite a sluggish Fox channel fight where fans booed the decision that was completely dashed in the second round of his rematch when Anderson Silva embarrassed him like a nerdy kid in a high school gym class. He then immediately ran to interviews and started claiming "CHEAT CHEAT!" despite the fact that Silva didn't cheat, making him look ridiculous. Then he began trashing any and everyone to try and get a fight. Thankfully the Jones thing came up and he went back to talking like he's a world beater despite the fact that the entire world has seen him beat. People try to discredit Brock Lesnar as always a fraud because of his last MMA fights. People say Fedor Emelianenko is a fraud because he lost 3 out of his last 6 career fights. And I believe people will think that Sonnen is an unworthy opponent and that the fight is not worthy of their money. That's my opinion. I don't see Jones/Sonnen bringing in a million buys. Considering Jones tends to be a lower drawing champion (Who has openly complained about the Machida rematch because their PPV didn't do as well as expected) I'd personally be amazed if it got 600,000. Is it even gonna be on pay-per-view? Absolutely. They're even talking stadium show (which I think is a mistake). That said, it would be the biggest boneheaded move in company history if they put it on FX with whatever the final is. |
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Oct 19, 2012 9:57:02 GMT -5
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Post by mo on Oct 19, 2012 12:47:10 GMT -5
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Oct 19, 2012 15:10:38 GMT -5
Good for Davis. Him stepping up on short notice, having just fought will get him a lot of favor with Dana. Also, I can imagine Forrest is too happy. While they have similar styles, Phil Davis is a whole different beast than Sonnen. Griffin's size advantage just went out the window. |
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Post by WIENERS=$$$ on Oct 20, 2012 5:40:40 GMT -5
Trouble is that this is a sport, as much as the last 5 years would have you think otherwise. You know what made "casuals" start to take notice in the UFC and MMA? An epic fight between two unknowns who made the chance to fight in this sport mean SOMETHING. Sonnen's name is crap. He has no legs to stand on, his hype-machine lost gas the minute he tried dancing with Silva. This "he's entertaining" debate is old and stale and subjective. When the business is a sport and said sport strips contenders of title shots and hands them to "hype-men" then your sport looks like a joke, because your championships mean f***-all and when your championships have no merit then your business fails. You keep praising Sonnen for doing business, but don't be surprised when we get "Norris vs Seagal" at one of these PPVs, dawning the age of "Celebrity MMA." I agree with you fundamentally. Part of my "real life" job is covering MMA. I'm a fan of the sport overall. But I know the way they think and how they run their business, and unfortunately, sizzle over steak always draws more money. The people who know better are never the majority in any aspect of entertainment or sport. It's why certain TV shows of higher quality languish and reality TV still exists, despite it all being moronically brainless. The Bonnar/Griffin fight was a monumental moment for UFC, true, but only because Tito and Ken drew the initial interest and build. It's like how Savage and Steamboat are lauded as having a legendary match; but Hogan and Andre drew the house and gave them the platform. Bonnar and Griffin benefited from the drama of the hatred between Ken and Tito, and both, the awesome fights, and the personality, worked in unison from there in UFC for years to make one hell of a great product. I know you hate Chael Sonnen. But his name is not crap to the people who don't know better. Those people who'll make up the 650,000 extra buys over the (if their lucky these days) 350,000 hardcores who'll order for the sake of watching two good fighters go at it who deserve it. Sonnen's window is definitely closing, but he's pretty much UFC's Roddy Piper at this moment, talking people into the building, which is ironic since Piper was Chael's favorite growing up in Oregon. Sonnen's last fight with Silva, no matter how lop-sided, drew the highest buyrate of 2012. That's a fact. And this was after a lot of people considered Bisping the real winner of their elimination fight. Sonnen will use the Ultimate Fighter platform to make people hate him or hate Jones. And either way, it will be a million buy fight. That's just the way it is. It's too bad, because I agree with you from a pure sports standpoint, but just like in wrestling, like with Vince relying on the same old heads, Dana will ride a horse until its dead. And Sonnen's got one mega fight in him, and maybe one more if he performs at a decent enough level. That said, the problem with the business right now, that leads to moments like this, is that too many guys over-train, get hurt, and then exploit UFC's medical coverage, that says their rehab can be paid for, even if they get hurt training. Guys get cut or beat up in camp, and drop out, leaving UFC holding the bag, and a panicked Dana White looking for answers. And opportunists like Chael exploit this. I mean, Vitor stepped up, almost got a miracle submission, and all people could talk about at the presser and beyond was whether Jones would ever fight Sonnen. It was incredible. I know it sounds cruel, but fighting worked better when the guys, fearing a loss of a pay day, came in, regardless. They didn't have a cushion to fall back on, so they came to play. (For the record, though, I think there should absolutely be coverage for injuries in the cage itself). This is the reason Hendo's getting passed over. Not that he got hurt. But because his camp didn't report it until right under the wire. Machida then turned it down, citing more time needed to train. Shogun turned it down from there. These things take on a life of their own when the talent goes down, and the show must go on. Bottom line: As long as people who don't deserve title shots continue to get them, MMA will not get any mainstream attention and acceptance(Which SHOULD be the goal of the UFC). Why would ESPN cover a sport where all you need to do is talk a bunch of s*** and you can be gifted a title shot even though you got embarrassed and looked like a putz in your last fight? So a few people will buy to watch Sonnen fight because he can be funny. And? If ESPN doesn't bother to cover it because they don't treat themselves like a real sport than all you have is a niche audience and that will only take you so far. UFC doesn't get mainstream attention because mainstream sports coverage is a corrupt old boys network, financially "motivated" shall we say to give preferential treatment to the usual suspects. Believe me, I know this firsthand. That, and most outlets won't really touch it until it gets legalized in more states --namely New York; who's corrupt, mob-backed commission has been trying to block it for years, in fear of it treading on their precious cash-cow of boxing. Trouble is that this is a sport, as much as the last 5 years would have you think otherwise. You know what made "casuals" start to take notice in the UFC and MMA? An epic fight between two unknowns who made the chance to fight in this sport mean SOMETHING. Sonnen's name is crap. He has no legs to stand on, his hype-machine lost gas the minute he tried dancing with Silva. This "he's entertaining" debate is old and stale and subjective. When the business is a sport and said sport strips contenders of title shots and hands them to "hype-men" then your sport looks like a joke, because your championships mean f***-all and when your championships have no merit then your business fails. You keep praising Sonnen for doing business, but don't be surprised when we get "Norris vs Seagal" at one of these PPVs, dawning the age of "Celebrity MMA." I agree with you fundamentally. Part of my "real life" job is covering MMA. I'm a fan of the sport overall. But I know the way they think and how they run their business, and unfortunately, sizzle over steak always draws more money. The people who know better are never the majority in any aspect of entertainment or sport. It's why certain TV shows of higher quality languish and reality TV still exists, despite it all being moronically brainless. The Bonnar/Griffin fight was a monumental moment for UFC, true, but only because Tito and Ken drew the initial interest and build. It's like how Savage and Steamboat are lauded as having a legendary match; but Hogan and Andre drew the house and gave them the platform. Bonnar and Griffin benefited from the drama of the hatred between Ken and Tito, and both, the awesome fights, and the personality, worked in unison from there in UFC for years to make one hell of a great product. I know you hate Chael Sonnen. But his name is not crap to the people who don't know better. Those people who'll make up the 650,000 extra buys over the (if their lucky these days) 350,000 hardcores who'll order for the sake of watching two good fighters go at it who deserve it. Sonnen's window is definitely closing, but he's pretty much UFC's Roddy Piper at this moment, talking people into the building, which is ironic since Piper was Chael's favorite growing up in Oregon. Sonnen's last fight with Silva, no matter how lop-sided, drew the highest buyrate of 2012. That's a fact. And this was after a lot of people considered Bisping the real winner of their elimination fight. Sonnen will use the Ultimate Fighter platform to make people hate him or hate Jones. And either way, it will be a million buy fight. That's just the way it is. It's too bad, because I agree with you from a pure sports standpoint, but just like in wrestling, like with Vince relying on the same old heads, Dana will ride a horse until its dead. And Sonnen's got one mega fight in him, and maybe one more if he performs at a decent enough level. That said, the problem with the business right now, that leads to moments like this, is that too many guys over-train, get hurt, and then exploit UFC's medical coverage, that says their rehab can be paid for, even if they get hurt training. Guys get cut or beat up in camp, and drop out, leaving UFC holding the bag, and a panicked Dana White looking for answers. And opportunists like Chael exploit this. I mean, Vitor stepped up, almost got a miracle submission, and all people could talk about at the presser and beyond was whether Jones would ever fight Sonnen. It was incredible. I know it sounds cruel, but fighting worked better when the guys, fearing a loss of a pay day, came in, regardless. They didn't have a cushion to fall back on, so they came to play. (For the record, though, I think there should absolutely be coverage for injuries in the cage itself). This is the reason Hendo's getting passed over. Not that he got hurt. But because his camp didn't report it until right under the wire. Machida then turned it down, citing more time needed to train. Shogun turned it down from there. These things take on a life of their own when the talent goes down, and the show must go on. Bottom line: As long as people who don't deserve title shots continue to get them, MMA will not get any mainstream attention and acceptance(Which SHOULD be the goal of the UFC). Why would ESPN cover a sport where all you need to do is talk a bunch of s*** and you can be gifted a title shot even though you got embarrassed and looked like a putz in your last fight? So a few people will buy to watch Sonnen fight because he can be funny. And? If ESPN doesn't bother to cover it because they don't treat themselves like a real sport than all you have is a niche audience and that will only take you so far. UFC doesn't get mainstream attention because mainstream sports coverage is a corrupt old boys network, financially "motivated" shall we say to give preferential treatment to the usual suspects. Believe me, I know this firsthand. That, and most outlets won't really touch it until it gets legalized in more states --namely New York; who's corrupt, mob-backed commission has been trying to block it for years, in fear of it treading on their precious cash-cow of boxing. I completely understand the point of the "MAIN-EVENT" sell, BUT when your main-event consists of a contender for a title who embarrassed himself in a rematch with the champion in his preferred weight-class (WHICH HE DID NOT DESERVE, sorry Sonnen fans but he tapped, despite his "world-class wrestling), and is hot-shotted against the champion in a weight-class above what he was contending for, then you have a "spectacle." "Yeah Sonnen said those things during TUF, and did that one thing that was funny; Whoopey! I hope he beats Jones/I hope Bones destroys him." The point is TUF is to high-light up-and-coming fighters for the future, not focus on easy bets.* *Jones defeats Sonnen is the smart bet* The line between kayfabe/sport is being blurred here, please don't let MMA fail like boxing. |
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Post by WIENERS=$$$ on Oct 20, 2012 5:58:16 GMT -5
Sorry for the double-quote (my Interwebz is d-u-m). Seriously though, why didn't Dana/company play the smart move for the biz and keep Griffin vs Sonnen for the LHW next in line title match, and keep Jones vs Henderson. This is the same crap that people on this board bitch about with pro-wrestling in regards to consistency. Hell Griffin/Sonnen TUF would be 10x (figure is from ACTUAL statistics) greater, and would actually create a legitimate "next-in-line/give Sonnen SOME credibility (if he wins) within the LHW division.
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Post by 543Y2J on Oct 20, 2012 6:34:08 GMT -5
 As a fan of both men (especially Griffin) this makes me very happy. 155 looks like a great card |
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Post by WIENERS=$$$ on Oct 20, 2012 7:17:51 GMT -5
As a fan of both men (especially Griffin) this makes me very happy. 155 looks like a great card Agreed, Davis is the new Griffin; he is a wild-card. Honestly though, Davis should be competing at 185 based on his last fight with Evans. |
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Post by darthpipes on Oct 20, 2012 13:41:06 GMT -5
I find the criticism of Jones vs Sonnen to be laughable. I totally agree that Sonnen doesn't deserve a shot at Jones but Brock Lesnar didn't deserve a shot at Randy Couture back in the day. He was 1-1 in two UFC fights, blowing the Mir fight on a rookie mistake and beating a journeyman in Heath Herring. Brock got the title shot because he was a big name with a built-in audience from the WWE. Sonnen got the title shot against Jones because he's an entertaining guy who can talk his way into a big PPV buyrate. The UFC is looking for money in a shaky time and it's going with a money match.
I don't feel sorry at all for Dan Henderson. He was the one who decided to withhold information about his injury for three weeks, making it almost impossible to find a replacement for Jones. Yes, Sonnen would have taken the fight but I don't blame Jones for not taking a title shot on 8 days notice. If Henderson had been honest earlier (again, I understand he really wanted the fight), this likely wouldn't have been a problem.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Oct 20, 2012 14:12:53 GMT -5
Pretty much if Dana really wants UFC to become a legitimate sport, Sonnen getting the title match is a joke. Like Bud Selig can't just say "Ok the Yankees are in the World Series because they're the most popular team."
Otherwise it's fine.
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Post by Cela on Oct 20, 2012 18:35:15 GMT -5
I find the criticism of Jones vs Sonnen to be laughable. I totally agree that Sonnen doesn't deserve a shot at Jones but Brock Lesnar didn't deserve a shot at Randy Couture back in the day. He was 1-1 in two UFC fights, blowing the Mir fight on a rookie mistake and beating a journeyman in Heath Herring. Brock got the title shot because he was a big name with a built-in audience from the WWE. Sonnen got the title shot against Jones because he's an entertaining guy who can talk his way into a big PPV buyrate. The UFC is looking for money in a shaky time and it's going with a money match. I don't feel sorry at all for Dan Henderson. He was the one who decided to withhold information about his injury for three weeks, making it almost impossible to find a replacement for Jones. Yes, Sonnen would have taken the fight but I don't blame Jones for not taking a title shot on 8 days notice. If Henderson had been honest earlier (again, I understand he really wanted the fight), this likely wouldn't have been a problem. Truth be told, Lesnar vs. Randy was a legitimate matchup from a selling standpoint. Brock looked crazy dominant in his loss and destroyed Heath for three rounds complete with highlight worthy punch. Brock looked like the next step in evolution of the fight game, Sonnen meanwhile is coming off a dominant loss and is undersized for the division. Brock was a huge unknown heavyweight with unnatural speed, Chael is an tiny wrestler who we've seen all he has to offer. |
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 21, 2012 3:42:49 GMT -5
Pretty much if Dana really wants UFC to become a legitimate sport, Sonnen getting the title match is a joke. Like Bud Selig can't just say "Ok the Yankees are in the World Series because they're the most popular team." Otherwise it's fine. You can't really compare team sports to one-on-one combat sports, though. It's apples and oranges. No one books team sports. Wins/losses entirely dictate who ends up in the World Series, and everyone plays everyone on the way to deciding just that. That's not always the case in combat sports. It's promoted weeks (often months) ahead, based on a variety of integers. It sucks, but most of UFC's income comes from PPV revenue. They *have* to sell the most marketable fight to maximize their profits. It just so happens that this timei t's so glaringly obvious that this is a 100% business decision. Usually they try to at least be a little subtle about things. That said; I think the big mistake in this regard was announcing this far ahead that Sonnen would get a Title match. I think they should have just announced that since Jones is hurt, he's doing TUF, and that Sonnen is the other coach. Then just let Sonnen do his thing, and make the match somewhere throughout the season when people will either hate Jones or Sonnen so much that they'd want to see the fight. (like Bisping and Hendo). For the record, though, I'd rather see Hendo get his shot first. But I have this feeling that by the time it's all said and done, we might all want to see this Jones/Sonnen fight, and the mauling that will ensue. Time will tell. This needs to be the last spectacle for a bit, however. |
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Post by secretJOKER on Oct 21, 2012 3:48:40 GMT -5
Pretty much if Dana really wants UFC to become a legitimate sport, Sonnen getting the title match is a joke. Like Bud Selig can't just say "Ok the Yankees are in the World Series because they're the most popular team." Otherwise it's fine. You can't really compare team sports to one-on-one combat sports, though. It's apples and oranges. No one books team sports. Wins/losses entirely dictate who ends up in the World Series, and everyone plays everyone on the way to deciding just that. That's not always the case in combat sports. It's promoted weeks (often months) ahead, based on a variety of integers. It sucks, but most of UFC's income comes from PPV revenue. They *have* to sell the most marketable fight to maximize their profits. It just so happens that this timei t's so glaringly obvious that this is a 100% business decision. Usually they try to at least be a little subtle about things. That said; I think the big mistake in this regard was announcing this far ahead that Sonnen would get a Title match. I think they should have just announced that since Jones is hurt, he's doing TUF, and that Sonnen is the other coach. Then just let Sonnen do his thing, and make the match somewhere throughout the season when people will either hate Jones or Sonnen so much that they'd want to see the fight. (like Bisping and Hendo). For the record, though, I'd rather see Hendo get his shot first. But I have this feeling that by the time it's all said and done, we might all want to see this Jones/Sonnen fight, and the mauling that will ensue. Time will tell. This needs to be the last spectacle for a bit, however. The thing is, one of your last sentences pokes a hole in your logic. We all KNOW that Jones is gonna turn Sonnen's jaw into a fine powder. It's practically a foregone conclusion, barring him coming into the Octagon on industrial strength horse tranquilizers. Where on earth is the interest in seeing a guy with a history of choking in big fights taking on one of the most dominant champion in recent history? Jones has flat out embarrassed fighters WAY better than Sonnen, so what's the appeal here? "Oooh, Sonnen called Jone's a chicken once?" |
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Oct 21, 2012 11:07:36 GMT -5
You can't really compare team sports to one-on-one combat sports, though. It's apples and oranges. No one books team sports. Wins/losses entirely dictate who ends up in the World Series, and everyone plays everyone on the way to deciding just that. That's not always the case in combat sports. It's promoted weeks (often months) ahead, based on a variety of integers. It sucks, but most of UFC's income comes from PPV revenue. They *have* to sell the most marketable fight to maximize their profits. It just so happens that this timei t's so glaringly obvious that this is a 100% business decision. Usually they try to at least be a little subtle about things. That said; I think the big mistake in this regard was announcing this far ahead that Sonnen would get a Title match. I think they should have just announced that since Jones is hurt, he's doing TUF, and that Sonnen is the other coach. Then just let Sonnen do his thing, and make the match somewhere throughout the season when people will either hate Jones or Sonnen so much that they'd want to see the fight. (like Bisping and Hendo). For the record, though, I'd rather see Hendo get his shot first. But I have this feeling that by the time it's all said and done, we might all want to see this Jones/Sonnen fight, and the mauling that will ensue. Time will tell. This needs to be the last spectacle for a bit, however. The thing is, one of your last sentences pokes a hole in your logic. We all KNOW that Jones is gonna turn Sonnen's jaw into a fine powder. It's practically a foregone conclusion, barring him coming into the Octagon on industrial strength horse tranquilizers. Where on earth is the interest in seeing a guy with a history of choking in big fights taking on one of the most dominant champion in recent history? Jones has flat out embarrassed fighters WAY better than Sonnen, so what's the appeal here? "Oooh, Sonnen called Jone's a chicken once?" There are two kinds of appeal in this fight. 1) You are a fan on Sonnen. He came very close to beating Silva and made a mistake that cost him early in their second fight. Jones is cocky and you think Sonnen can catch him in a way that all other fighters have failed. Even in Sonnen were to lose, you'll probably have a fun buildup to watch. 2) You hate Sonnen. You know that Jones is one of the best fighters on the planet, regardless of your personal feelings about him. Sonnen couldn't beat Silva, who's biggest weakness was Sonnen's biggest strength, and now he has to fight Jones who is a very good wrestler. Jones will DESTROY Sonnen and you need to see that. I see most people falling into the second category. |
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 21, 2012 16:46:41 GMT -5
You can't really compare team sports to one-on-one combat sports, though. It's apples and oranges. No one books team sports. Wins/losses entirely dictate who ends up in the World Series, and everyone plays everyone on the way to deciding just that. That's not always the case in combat sports. It's promoted weeks (often months) ahead, based on a variety of integers. It sucks, but most of UFC's income comes from PPV revenue. They *have* to sell the most marketable fight to maximize their profits. It just so happens that this timei t's so glaringly obvious that this is a 100% business decision. Usually they try to at least be a little subtle about things. That said; I think the big mistake in this regard was announcing this far ahead that Sonnen would get a Title match. I think they should have just announced that since Jones is hurt, he's doing TUF, and that Sonnen is the other coach. Then just let Sonnen do his thing, and make the match somewhere throughout the season when people will either hate Jones or Sonnen so much that they'd want to see the fight. (like Bisping and Hendo). For the record, though, I'd rather see Hendo get his shot first. But I have this feeling that by the time it's all said and done, we might all want to see this Jones/Sonnen fight, and the mauling that will ensue. Time will tell. This needs to be the last spectacle for a bit, however. The thing is, one of your last sentences pokes a hole in your logic. We all KNOW that Jones is gonna turn Sonnen's jaw into a fine powder. It's practically a foregone conclusion, barring him coming into the Octagon on industrial strength horse tranquilizers. Where on earth is the interest in seeing a guy with a history of choking in big fights taking on one of the most dominant champion in recent history? Jones has flat out embarrassed fighters WAY better than Sonnen, so what's the appeal here? "Oooh, Sonnen called Jone's a chicken once?" The same appeal that "five minutes alone with the heel manager" had in the 80's in Wrestling. Sometimes people just want to see the big mouth get his mouth shut. Roddy Piper's entire heel shtick was built on this. No one wanted to see Hogan wrestle Piper (regardless of revisionist history) because they were equal; they wanted to see it because they wanted to see Hulk shut him up. It's the same principle with this. It brings out the same base need in this audience. It can't happen constantly. But I have no doubt by the time that bell rings, people will be into it. Read this thread. People who want to see it have basically admitted it. The draw here for most is seeing Sonnen get killed. Not the athletic merit of the fight itself. |
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Post by secretJOKER on Oct 21, 2012 16:50:55 GMT -5
The thing is, one of your last sentences pokes a hole in your logic. We all KNOW that Jones is gonna turn Sonnen's jaw into a fine powder. It's practically a foregone conclusion, barring him coming into the Octagon on industrial strength horse tranquilizers. Where on earth is the interest in seeing a guy with a history of choking in big fights taking on one of the most dominant champion in recent history? Jones has flat out embarrassed fighters WAY better than Sonnen, so what's the appeal here? "Oooh, Sonnen called Jone's a chicken once?" The same appeal that "five minutes alone with the heel manager" had in the 80's in Wrestling. Sometimes people just want to see the big mouth get his mouth shut. Roddy Piper's entire heel shtick was built on this. No one wanted to see Hogan wrestle Piper (regardless of revisionist history) because they were equal; they wanted to see it because they wanted to see Hulk shut him up. It's the same principle with this. It brings out the same base need in this audience. It can't happen constantly. But I have no doubt by the time that bell rings, people will be into it. Read this thread. People who want to see it have basically admitted it. The draw here for most is seeing Sonnen get killed. Not the athletic merit of the fight itself. Then MMA is quickly losing the right to call itself a true athletic contest. If we're just putting guys in there, not on merit, but on the basis of "Well, this'll be funny.", then yeah, it's no better than the fake pro wrestling MMA fans love to shit on. Fact is, Hendo, and at least three other people behind him, deserve this shot ahead of Sonnen, whose only merit is his mouth, and Dana's preferential treatment. |
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Post by Cela on Oct 21, 2012 23:21:39 GMT -5
Plus legitimate sport heels only work if they can back it up.
The Patriots, The Yankees, LeBron James, Mayweather and hell Anderson Silva post Maia.
No one cares if the Milwaukee Brewers are using underhanded tactics and running their mouth, they're the Milwaukee Brewers. Same with Sonnen, he's such an underdog, and an undeserving one, no one cares.
Especially when there are legitimate contenders ahead of him. Hendo, Gustafson, anyone.
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Posts: 32,702
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Post by zeez on Oct 22, 2012 17:01:38 GMT -5
You can't really compare team sports to one-on-one combat sports, though. It's apples and oranges. No one books team sports. Wins/losses entirely dictate who ends up in the World Series, and everyone plays everyone on the way to deciding just that. That's not always the case in combat sports. It's promoted weeks (often months) ahead, based on a variety of integers. It sucks, but most of UFC's income comes from PPV revenue. They *have* to sell the most marketable fight to maximize their profits. It just so happens that this timei t's so glaringly obvious that this is a 100% business decision. Usually they try to at least be a little subtle about things. That said; I think the big mistake in this regard was announcing this far ahead that Sonnen would get a Title match. I think they should have just announced that since Jones is hurt, he's doing TUF, and that Sonnen is the other coach. Then just let Sonnen do his thing, and make the match somewhere throughout the season when people will either hate Jones or Sonnen so much that they'd want to see the fight. (like Bisping and Hendo). For the record, though, I'd rather see Hendo get his shot first. But I have this feeling that by the time it's all said and done, we might all want to see this Jones/Sonnen fight, and the mauling that will ensue. Time will tell. This needs to be the last spectacle for a bit, however. The thing is, one of your last sentences pokes a hole in your logic. We all KNOW that Jones is gonna turn Sonnen's jaw into a fine powder. It's practically a foregone conclusion, barring him coming into the Octagon on industrial strength horse tranquilizers. Where on earth is the interest in seeing a guy with a history of choking in big fights taking on one of the most dominant champion in recent history? Jones has flat out embarrassed fighters WAY better than Sonnen, so what's the appeal here? "Oooh, Sonnen called Jone's a chicken once?" Isn't it a foregone conclusion that Jones beats everyone in the division at this point? Yeah, maybe Hendo would give Jones a more competitive fight than Chael but Hendo has choked in big fights too (his title fight against Jake Shields for example). The way that Jon has manhandled everyone else in the division, I have no reason to believe that Dan, or anyone else at light heavyweight, has a chance to beat Jones at this point. So does it really matter if we all know Jones will probably win? Besides, they're running out of guys for Jones to fight anyway and Jon might not be interested in a fight with Anderson or going to heavyweight yet so why not give Chael a chance and make a boatload of money while doing it? It sucks for Dan but that's what he gets for keeping his knee injury a secret for three weeks. He can get the next shot. |
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
Posts: 11,106
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Oct 24, 2012 1:56:35 GMT -5
Apropos of nothing, and I'm certainly not bragging, but holy crap, I'm credentialed for 154!
I'm not an MMA reporter and you guys certainly have no idea who I am, but this is so cool for me.
I've done pretty much every other sport you can think of, but this is my first MMA credential, so I'm flipping out! I have a GSP interview lined up! I'm crapping bricks!
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