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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 18, 2011 17:31:17 GMT -5
Hogan I don't. He made up story after story about Andre. From his weight, when he died. Once said a couple days after the event. Even though Andre was active in the WWE for three more years. Like if he died right after WM3. Who did you face at WM 4?
There was something else about I believe his claim he wrestled at SummerSlam 92 in his book. Hogan had some messed up stories in that book.
I believe storys from Foley and Jericho.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 18, 2011 17:37:43 GMT -5
Bret Hart, people get after, but Bret when he speaks, the truth is important to him and he's said that a lot, I think he may've also brought that up in the Bret/Shawn rivals dvd. Bret may say things that are false, but it maybe due to him not knowing what he's saying is false, other then out and out lying. Hulk Hogan is the number one guy who to disbelieve. If someone said Hogan s*** a live chicken in the parking lot, I'd believe the person who stated that before Hogan. New Jack is another, so when he says stuff like, D'lo Brown mowed Jim Cornette's lawn when they were in SMW, usually you'll get a chuckle out of either with how absurd that sounds. New Jack is a bad one. Guys like Jim Cornette, I defend him as a guy who I believe. He's very passionate but also opinionated. I think that is one issue that some guys have, is they state their opinions and may not blatantly lie. Plus, the business has an issue with the old saying of, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see, because of how much a work a lot of things are. Chris Jericho for example comes across as a worker, especially on Twitter. Here's the thing, Hart's pretty honest about his personal life-but as far as him talking about his wrestling exploits, there's only so many times you can read "I wrestled X in the best match of his career" and "I was willing to job to anybody, because I'm so magnanimous" before you start to realize he's the biggest mark for himself. I'm gonna defend Bret here. Again, a lot of this is opinion. It's his opinion that he wrestled x in the best match of his career, and I'm wondering where that quote came from. As for jobbing, he's said that he would have lost to the WWE Title to the Brooklyn Brawler before Shawn Michaels. It was just his issues with Shawn.
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Post by norsisclouds on Dec 18, 2011 17:53:43 GMT -5
I tend to trust what I've heard if I've heard similar stories about the same event from multiple people, from jobbers backstage to main event guys. Then I decide the truth is somewhere in the middle. Learned the hard way you can't just take what one wrestler says to be 100% no matter how much you like the guy.
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Post by baronmordo on Dec 18, 2011 19:02:16 GMT -5
That's the problem though. You job to who the boss tells you to job to. Bret was unprofessional. And yes, I know Shawn was too-but that ain't an excuse.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 18, 2011 19:09:49 GMT -5
The whole argument has been done to death, but I will say this. Just because your boss tells you to do something, doesn't mean you should always do it. I simply take this from my own experience. If my foreman doesn't know exactly what he's doing, or is making a mistake in something that's being built, I shouldn't just comply like an autonomous robot. I should question. Why should it be done this way? Are there other ways in doing things? And so forth.
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sebulba
Team Rocket
Glass ceiling?!! What glass ceiling?
Posts: 940
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Post by sebulba on Dec 19, 2011 4:15:05 GMT -5
The last time I trusted a wrestler, he led me into a room full of snakes, and a cobra bit me. The last thing I remember is collapsing and seeing a fat guy and a tall man in black. Warrior? HHH and 'Taker?
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Post by moneyman20 on Dec 19, 2011 4:19:32 GMT -5
I wouldn't trust anything Hogan, Hart, or Bischoff say if the truth was tattooed on their hands and they read it all word for word from said hands.
That's simply because they've lied about and exaggerated so many things it's hard for me to take what they say seriously when it comes to their wrestling careers.
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Post by baronmordo on Dec 19, 2011 14:08:52 GMT -5
One last post, and I'm done derailing. Look, I'd agree that you don't normally just blindly do whatever your boss tells you to do-but this is wrestling we're talking about, where employers regularly f*** the boys. Hart GREW up in a wrestling family-he should've known he was playing with fire. I don't see how anyone can think he was in the right-I'd have done exactly the same thing to him.
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Post by mauled on Dec 19, 2011 14:51:52 GMT -5
One last post, and I'm done derailing. Look, I'd agree that you don't normally just blindly do whatever your boss tells you to do-but this is wrestling we're talking about, where employers regularly f*** the boys. Hart GREW up in a wrestling family-he should've known he was playing with fire. I don't see how anyone can think he was in the right-I'd have done exactly the same thing to him. It goes back a bit further than that. WCW had offered him a huge deal to work with them. Vince offered him less (still big) and Bret out of loyalty went with Vince. Vince then reneged on the deal and Bret went back to WCW. He was then asked to job (I still dont know why Vince didnt use Taker instead) to the one guy who he had major heat with and had said he wouldnt do the same for Bret. The rest as they say is history. You have to remember how bad HBK was back then even Trips on his King of Kings DVD admits he spent the whole of WM14 weekend "persuading" shawn to even turn up Personaly I think Vince was right but for the wrong reasons. With both him and Shawn gone (few months later) it worked out for both Austin/Vince/Foley and the Rock to rise to promince in jmo. Just go back and watch Wrestling with Shadows and you can see how genuienly bewildered Bret is that the US fans have turned on him and how against the more adult turn the WWF took. Jobbing to Austin aside say at WM14 what else could Bret have done. As for Bret loving himself well he does a bit (the boys loved it backstage) but I can understand why as he was brilliant in the ring and as Vince says a fantastic storyteller in the ring. To be clear this is from a Bret fan who loved his work and thought the USA fans v Canada and Rest of the world fans fued in 97 as one of my all time fave storylines. If I was Bret Id be more bitter with Hogan and being buried in WCW than Montreal as there were so many things he could have done in WCW
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 19, 2011 15:28:59 GMT -5
Really, the only person who I really found believable was Rick Martel. I don't think you'll ever get honesty from a top guy, because it comes with the position having to be somewhat ruthless, and not many people are going to admit to that.
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Post by repomanfan on Dec 19, 2011 15:32:29 GMT -5
Really, the only person who I really found believable was Rick Martel. I don't think you'll ever get honesty from a top guy, because it comes with the position having to be somewhat ruthless, and not many people are going to admit to that. Agreed. He actually backed up one of Hogan's claims; the fact that Hogan punked Verne Gagne in the dressing room. Martel is one of the classiest and most normal guys to ever come out of pro wrestling.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2011 15:35:05 GMT -5
I don't remember if Santana's biography was produced by WWE. He's always someone I thought would be able to give a fairly objective look at the wrestling industry. He didn't seem to be involved in any incidents backstage and I'm not sure he has bones to pick with too many people. This statement was hilariously insane to me until I realized that you said Sant ana and not Santa.
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Post by baronmordo on Dec 19, 2011 16:36:04 GMT -5
Here's the issue though-Bret whines that he didn't want to job to Michaels because Michaels said he wouldn't do the same for him-WHO THE f*** CARES? He was leaving the company, why did it matter? It was unprofessional. Two wrongs and all that.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Dec 19, 2011 18:04:43 GMT -5
Hogan I don't. He made up story after story about Andre. From his weight, when he died. Once said a couple days after the event. Even though Andre was active in the WWE for three more years. Like if he died right after WM3. Who did you face at WM 4? There was something else about I believe his claim he wrestled at SummerSlam 92 in his book. Hogan had some messed up stories in that book. I believe storys from Foley and Jericho. But is it that Hogan's lying or that he just doesn't remember? I mean the guy has done so much over the years I'm sure some of the facts get lost. I'm not saying that he doesn't embellish some of the facts, but I wonder how much of it is forgetfulness, like how he said that Bret was pinned by Shawn in the screwjob.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 19, 2011 19:35:52 GMT -5
Hogan I don't. He made up story after story about Andre. From his weight, when he died. Once said a couple days after the event. Even though Andre was active in the WWE for three more years. Like if he died right after WM3. Who did you face at WM 4? There was something else about I believe his claim he wrestled at SummerSlam 92 in his book. Hogan had some messed up stories in that book. I believe storys from Foley and Jericho. But is it that Hogan's lying or that he just doesn't remember? I mean the guy has done so much over the years I'm sure some of the facts get lost. I'm not saying that he doesn't embellish some of the facts, but I wonder how much of it is forgetfulness, like how he said that Bret was pinned by Shawn in the screwjob. Because a group of people will forgive certain sins on the rigors of the business, like murder, but not others, like forgetting dates...
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Dec 20, 2011 4:04:49 GMT -5
Out of all the shoots I've seen...
I trust Cornette.
I trust Sabu.
I trust Shane Douglas.
I trust Rick Martel.
I trust Perry Saturn.
That's pretty much it.
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Post by baronmordo on Dec 20, 2011 11:43:57 GMT -5
Shane Douglas?! The guy who thinks he's the greatest passed-over talent in wrestling history? HELL to the no.
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on Dec 20, 2011 11:52:04 GMT -5
Here's the thing, Hart's pretty honest about his personal life-but as far as him talking about his wrestling exploits, there's only so many times you can read "I wrestled X in the best match of his career" and "I was willing to job to anybody, because I'm so magnanimous" before you start to realize he's the biggest mark for himself. Watching the Bret/Shawn documentary, I was so pissed when he got on Shawn for claiming he was going to work with all his friends once he became champion. Umm...how is this difference then when Bret was champ and he feuded with Owen, The Anvil, and The Bulldog? Putting over family is ok, but friends isn't?
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,045
Member is Online
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Post by dav on Dec 20, 2011 12:13:08 GMT -5
Here's the thing, Hart's pretty honest about his personal life-but as far as him talking about his wrestling exploits, there's only so many times you can read "I wrestled X in the best match of his career" and "I was willing to job to anybody, because I'm so magnanimous" before you start to realize he's the biggest mark for himself. Watching the Bret/Shawn documentary, I was so pissed when he got on Shawn for claiming he was going to work with all his friends once he became champion. Umm...how is this difference then when Bret was champ and he feuded with Owen, The Anvil, and The Bulldog? Putting over family is ok, but friends isn't? Bret also seems more than happy to take credit. I remember reading in his autobiography about how the end of their SummerSlam match, Davey Boy was supposed to shake his hand and wouldn't do it because he was too high, making Bret work a new spot. Low and behold, watching the match, Davey Boy does the spot correctly. Even if it's faulty memory, would it have been too much trouble to watch a video to get his own story straight?
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Dec 20, 2011 12:38:00 GMT -5
While cornette is outspoken and honest from his personal viewpoint, I think his biases prevent him from telling the whole truth on mAtters. I mean, the man has never owned up to pitching a bad angle, and has hated everything that Vince Russo has ever done despite alot of it being successful over the years. He overcredits McMahon and gives none to Russo because of his hatred. Although I do give Jim props for being able to credit hbk's work and personality separately.
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