Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Oct 22, 2012 23:23:51 GMT -5
Ryback isn't ready brother
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2012 23:26:03 GMT -5
When your whole gimmick is being a big, strong monster of a man and you can't consistently pull off a strength-based finisher like that, it's time to reframe the character you're working on. That's what I'm saying. He's trying to be something he's not. Tonight they said he's 6'3, 291....no way. More like 6'1, 265. He's more Rhyno than Goldberg.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 22, 2012 23:26:45 GMT -5
When your whole gimmick is being a big, strong monster of a man and you can't consistently pull off a strength-based finisher like that, it's time to reframe the character you're working on. I wish his gimmick was the big, strong guy who can't pick people up and doesn't understand why. "but my muscles.... THEY'RE SO BIG! I DON'T UNDERSTAND!" Someone needs to show Vince the Tough Enough footage from 2004 of Daniel Puder beating Ryback in about three seconds in the Arm-Wrestling competition. Might stop Vinny's furious masturbation long enough for some new ideas to flow through his head.
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Post by stevieboy on Oct 22, 2012 23:57:04 GMT -5
He'll be fine. No use wasting a dude who's over because of a few botches. If that was the case we'd have a very thin roster.
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Post by slaughterama on Oct 23, 2012 2:09:35 GMT -5
If you're familiar with weight training, and you're familiar with body building, you can very easily tell where Ryback is putting his emphasis when it comes to his workout. Is he natural? 100% no. Natural mass with that cut would take about 50 hours a week and a diet followed to a T to obtain. He's either juicing or harmoning, doing extensive underweight/oversets, and eating high fats/carbs late at night to get the mass and rip. It explains why he's showing strength issues in the ring.
Most dudes with freakish strength with the aid of juice/hgh are not very ripped. They're just large masses who are doing bulk weight sets to build strength. Ryback is going for the look. He appears to be awfully uncoordinated and has very minimal lower back/squat strength. IMO, that's why he's having a problem with the strength moves. I'm not calling him weak by any imagination, but I would venture to say that his overall awkwardness and relatively average lifter strength with an abnormal frame makes it difficult for him to pull off the moves he's trying to do.
JMHO, but a guy like Albert could probably deadlift or outsquat Ryback any day of the week. Strength is not typical with a build like Ryback. It's a show body, and he appears to be VERY uncoordinated and shows minmial athleticism. Even if a guy like Heyman were sandbagging you, there's no reason Ryback shouldn't be forcing him up unless he's just going hardcore synthetic and max-repping lighterweights.
If he's not getting 100% help from a worker, he's not pulling off his finisher. Fortunately, when he does botch, it doesn't look like anyone is going to get hurt, it will just make him look like a clown. Win/Win
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illniñofan
Trap-Jaw
Shameless Castlevania: Judgment mark.
Posts: 311
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Post by illniñofan on Oct 23, 2012 8:29:03 GMT -5
If you're familiar with weight training, and you're familiar with body building, you can very easily tell where Ryback is putting his emphasis when it comes to his workout. Is he natural? 100% no. Natural mass with that cut would take about 50 hours a week and a diet followed to a T to obtain. He's either juicing or harmoning, doing extensive underweight/oversets, and eating high fats/carbs late at night to get the mass and rip. It explains why he's showing strength issues in the ring. Most dudes with freakish strength with the aid of juice/hgh are not very ripped. They're just large masses who are doing bulk weight sets to build strength. Ryback is going for the look. He appears to be awfully uncoordinated and has very minimal lower back/squat strength. IMO, that's why he's having a problem with the strength moves. I'm not calling him weak by any imagination, but I would venture to say that his overall awkwardness and relatively average lifter strength with an abnormal frame makes it difficult for him to pull off the moves he's trying to do. JMHO, but a guy like Albert could probably deadlift or outsquat Ryback any day of the week. Strength is not typical with a build like Ryback. It's a show body, and he appears to be VERY uncoordinated and shows minmial athleticism. Even if a guy like Heyman were sandbagging you, there's no reason Ryback shouldn't be forcing him up unless he's just going hardcore synthetic and max-repping lighterweights. If he's not getting 100% help from a worker, he's not pulling off his finisher. Fortunately, when he does botch, it doesn't look like anyone is going to get hurt, it will just make him look like a clown. Win/Win Agreed on most points. Yes, I do think that his training would probably fall under the "bodybuilder" style, in that he's building his muscles for the same reason pro-bodybuilders do: too look good on stage. Often times, as you probably said, you'd be surprised to find out that the guys who look like walking houses, really aren't as strong as they look. The guys who you talk about who are strong, but not all that defined (even with the aid of juice), are the powerlifters/strongmen (see Mariusz Pudzianowski (sp?) or even Mark Henry, for example). As much as I'm a fan of Ryback, he clearly doesn't fall under this category. He and Goldberg both have shaved heads, but that's where the comparisons begin and end for me. Goldberg was a professional football player who, with the aid of steroids, trained for an attained explosiveness necessary to be a defensive lineman and because of that, displayed a level of combined athleticism and explosiveness that we had never really seen in professional wrestling during that time. Again, as much as I like Ryback he simply doesn't inspire that same sort of awe that Goldberg did in the ring. Yet, at the same time, and given the relative size and strength of wrestlers in today's era compared to other eras (due largely to the fact that wrestlers are using less than their predecessors), I still buy him as a huge threat/powerhouse that the other wrestlers should fear. As for diet, there's a good chance that he's probably a little sloppy, but I've heard stories of him obsessing over eating chicken breast and steak, so I doubt this really factors in THAT much considering that wrestlers on the road don't always eat 100% clean all the time. In the end, I'm with the theory that he simply doesn't have the athletic explosiveness or functionality that powerlifters or other athletes have because his training style differs from them. tl;dr You're right. I'm a lifter too and I just love talking about this subject so I wanted to expound on a few other points.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Oct 23, 2012 10:06:01 GMT -5
Why do people keep ignoring that's he done this move to multiple people at a time. Yall acting like he is weak as a kitten, it was Paul Heyman. You can count the number of times he's botched it on 1 hand.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 11:18:26 GMT -5
Why do people keep ignoring that's he done this move to multiple people at a time. Yall acting like he is weak as a kitten, it was Paul Heyman. You can count the number of times he's botched it on 1 hand. Yeah... he's successfully pulled off the move to two people on numerous occasions, but no story of him injuring any of those ham and eggers (or even Curt Hawkins) has ever come up. It's more of a cooperation thing, but I do agree that he may need to try a secondary finisher.
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amaron
Samurai Cop
I yam what I yam.
Posts: 2,212
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Post by amaron on Oct 23, 2012 11:44:28 GMT -5
Why do people keep ignoring that's he done this move to multiple people at a time. Yall acting like he is weak as a kitten, it was Paul Heyman. You can count the number of times he's botched it on 1 hand. It doesn't matter if he can do it to one, two, or seven people at once. If he can't do it to EVERYONE, then it should be a finisher. Bret Hart got the Sharpshooter on YOKOZUNA FFS because it was a finisher that anyone could take.
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Xifax
Trap-Jaw
keys open doors
Posts: 376
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Post by Xifax on Oct 23, 2012 11:49:00 GMT -5
I wish his gimmick was the big, strong guy who can't pick people up and doesn't understand why. "but my muscles.... THEY'RE SO BIG! I DON'T UNDERSTAND!" Someone needs to show Vince the Tough Enough footage from 2004 of Daniel Puder beating Ryback in about three seconds in the Arm-Wrestling competition. Might stop Vinny's furious masturbation long enough for some new ideas to flow through his head. if only
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Sin Cara Tres
Don Corleone
Funkasaurus Designs Incorporated
We Are Many. You Are One.
Posts: 1,631
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Post by Sin Cara Tres on Oct 23, 2012 11:56:45 GMT -5
I wish his gimmick was the big, strong guy who can't pick people up and doesn't understand why. "but my muscles.... THEY'RE SO BIG! I DON'T UNDERSTAND!" Someone needs to show Vince the Tough Enough footage from 2004 of Daniel Puder beating Ryback in about three seconds in the Arm-Wrestling competition. Might stop Vinny's furious masturbation long enough for some new ideas to flow through his head. Like trying to build a new star? Something the internet always wants but never wants.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Oct 23, 2012 11:56:53 GMT -5
Why do people keep ignoring that's he done this move to multiple people at a time. Yall acting like he is weak as a kitten, it was Paul Heyman. You can count the number of times he's botched it on 1 hand. It doesn't matter if he can do it to one, two, or seven people at once. If he can't do it to EVERYONE, then it should be a finisher. Bret Hart got the Sharpshooter on YOKOZUNA FFS because it was a finisher that anyone could take. So if anyone botches their finisher, they should abandon it? No one in the WWE would have a finisher.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Oct 23, 2012 11:59:42 GMT -5
Why do people keep ignoring that's he done this move to multiple people at a time. Yall acting like he is weak as a kitten, it was Paul Heyman. You can count the number of times he's botched it on 1 hand. I now want to see a Kitten in a Ryback singlet for some reason.
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amaron
Samurai Cop
I yam what I yam.
Posts: 2,212
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Post by amaron on Oct 23, 2012 12:00:31 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if he can do it to one, two, or seven people at once. If he can't do it to EVERYONE, then it should be a finisher. Bret Hart got the Sharpshooter on YOKOZUNA FFS because it was a finisher that anyone could take. So if anyone botches their finisher, they should abandon it? No one in the WWE would have a finisher. So when is enough enough? When someone gets dumped on their head and injured?
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Oct 23, 2012 12:14:58 GMT -5
So if anyone botches their finisher, they should abandon it? No one in the WWE would have a finisher. So when is enough enough? When someone gets dumped on their head and injured? twice isn't even close to enough, I can tell you that much
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Oct 23, 2012 12:14:57 GMT -5
If you're familiar with weight training, and you're familiar with body building, you can very easily tell where Ryback is putting his emphasis when it comes to his workout. Is he natural? 100% no. Natural mass with that cut would take about 50 hours a week and a diet followed to a T to obtain. He's either juicing or harmoning, doing extensive underweight/oversets, and eating high fats/carbs late at night to get the mass and rip. It explains why he's showing strength issues in the ring. Most dudes with freakish strength with the aid of juice/hgh are not very ripped. They're just large masses who are doing bulk weight sets to build strength. Ryback is going for the look. He appears to be awfully uncoordinated and has very minimal lower back/squat strength. IMO, that's why he's having a problem with the strength moves. I'm not calling him weak by any imagination, but I would venture to say that his overall awkwardness and relatively average lifter strength with an abnormal frame makes it difficult for him to pull off the moves he's trying to do. JMHO, but a guy like Albert could probably deadlift or outsquat Ryback any day of the week. Strength is not typical with a build like Ryback. It's a show body, and he appears to be VERY uncoordinated and shows minmial athleticism. Even if a guy like Heyman were sandbagging you, there's no reason Ryback shouldn't be forcing him up unless he's just going hardcore synthetic and max-repping lighterweights. If he's not getting 100% help from a worker, he's not pulling off his finisher. Fortunately, when he does botch, it doesn't look like anyone is going to get hurt, it will just make him look like a clown. Win/Win I'm not sure if you're familiar with weight lifting if you're talking about someone needing 50 hours of workout a week to get to any body type. Even pro bodybuilders don't work out that long, as that would be considered overtraining, even with steroids. The days of people needing an Arnold Schwarzenegger workout to get big have long since been disproven.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 12:52:19 GMT -5
So if anyone botches their finisher, they should abandon it? No one in the WWE would have a finisher. So when is enough enough? When someone gets dumped on their head and injured? Hahahaha. That is so far beyond what has been happening with his botched finishers.
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Xifax
Trap-Jaw
keys open doors
Posts: 376
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Post by Xifax on Oct 23, 2012 12:57:29 GMT -5
I'd like to point out that "Ryback is dangerous" and "Ryback is crappy" are not necessarily the same thing.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Oct 23, 2012 13:55:47 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if he can do it to one, two, or seven people at once. If he can't do it to EVERYONE, then it should be a finisher. Bret Hart got the Sharpshooter on YOKOZUNA FFS because it was a finisher that anyone could take. So if anyone botches their finisher, they should abandon it? No one in the WWE would have a finisher. No one's saying he should stop using it altogether; simply that a wiser man would figure out a way around his shortcomings. Either get an alternate finisher for bigger guys or work on his strength game so he can actually lift big people. But just coming up with excuses about how it's everyone else's fault when he falls short ain't cutting it. Just to add to Amaron's point, for all the flack Cena gets, there's no excuse when he can't lift someone up - reason being, he actually gets the job done, regardless of how big or inexperienced the guy he's going against is. Alternatively, with Punk, he doesn't go for the GTS on frickin' Mark Henry, he goes for an alternate finisher.
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amaron
Samurai Cop
I yam what I yam.
Posts: 2,212
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Post by amaron on Oct 23, 2012 14:39:38 GMT -5
So when is enough enough? When someone gets dumped on their head and injured? Hahahaha. That is so far beyond what has been happening with his botched finishers. yeah, he's not even getting some people up to even attempt the finishers.
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