The Rock / Survivor Series 1998

[Deleted]

So, playing through Attitude Mode in WWE 13, specifically on the The Great One chapter which, even if you don't have the game you've probably worked out, centers around Survivor Series 98.

And, seeing as I was still like a month removed from turning eight at the point when that PPV happened and I'd only been watching for probably about three months, I don't exactly have a lot of knowledge of the Internet / newsletter-savvy fans' doings at the time. With that in mind, I'm wondering - what was the general reaction to Rock turning heel at the time, and did people think it would happen?

[Allie Kitsune]

A little off topic, but bringing this up kind of makes me wish they had a reason to bring back the Deadly Game tournament again for an SS.

[Deleted]

Yeah, WWE could really stand to have a tournament with actual stakes about now. When was the last non-King of the Ring one, the Intercontinental title contendership one Punk won?

Also, a third question - what was the reaction to them doing the Montreal finish? On one hand it seems like a really unnecessary, stupid reference, but on the other it hadn't been beaten into the ground at that point.

[Deleted]

I cried. I was also 7 at the time.

[salz4life]

I remember my reaction to Rock turning heel was fairly positive. I loved him as a heel. I still think he is the best as a heel. Hollywood Rock was GOLD!

[CMWaters]

The last non King of the Ring tournament they did was the Tag Title contenders one that Cody and Sandow won.

As for this...I was genuinely surprised that they went this route, but realized afterwards it made sense...sort of (why have Rock get beat up before the PPV is odd, but I guess that's to keep up appearances).

[Stu]

I remember a lot of people being upset. Leading up to Survivor Series, The Rock was becoming really popular as a face and was starting to overshadow Austin. So when they swerved us at Survivor Series, there was a collective JR-esque "aw son of a bitch."

[Deleted]

If I recall correctly, there were a few murmurings of a Punk/Cena like "Same old WWF, afraid to have Rock overshadow their project, Austin." I remember a few people on an old board calling it, in their belief that the Fed wouldn't have a storyline similar to Austin-Vince.

[simplydurhamcalling]

Nov 8, 2012 14:44:46 GMT -5 @rainbowrandy said:

If I recall correctly, there were a few murmurings of a Punk/Cena like "Same old WWF, afraid to have Rock overshadow their project, Austin." I remember a few people on an old board calling it, in their belief that the Fed wouldn't have a storyline similar to Austin-Vince.

People were already sick of Austin? He'd only been Main Eventing for a year! I was watching at the time but wasn't on the net, I would have been 12 and I only got to watch Livewire but I completely bought it and hated The Corporation.

Looking back it was incredibly well booked and it all worked out pretty well in the end.

[-Lithium-]

Nov 8, 2012 14:56:03 GMT -5 simplydurhamcalling said:

Nov 8, 2012 14:44:46 GMT -5 @rainbowrandy said:

If I recall correctly, there were a few murmurings of a Punk/Cena like "Same old WWF, afraid to have Rock overshadow their project, Austin." I remember a few people on an old board calling it, in their belief that the Fed wouldn't have a storyline similar to Austin-Vince.

People were already sick of Austin? He'd only been Main Eventing for a year! I was watching at the time but wasn't on the net, I would have been 12 and I only got to watch Livewire but I completely bought it and hated The Corporation.

Looking back it was incredibly well booked and it all worked out pretty well in the end.

Stone Cold is great, but in 1998 he was as overpushed as Cena was from 05-07. It was ridiculous. It took Kane and The Undertaker to get the title off him...

[simplydurhamcalling]

Nov 8, 2012 17:37:47 GMT -5 -Lithium- said:

Nov 8, 2012 14:56:03 GMT -5 simplydurhamcalling said:

People were already sick of Austin? He'd only been Main Eventing for a year! I was watching at the time but wasn't on the net, I would have been 12 and I only got to watch Livewire but I completely bought it and hated The Corporation.

Looking back it was incredibly well booked and it all worked out pretty well in the end.

Stone Cold is great, but in 1998 he was as overpushed as Cena was from 05-07. It was ridiculous. It took Kane and The Undertaker to get the title off him...

While he was definitely the focus of the show I don't know if we can say he was overpushed as crowds continued to eat it up everywhere they went, ratings continued to rise etc unlike Cena who was getting booed within his first year of being THE guy.

[Deleted]

Actually, this was the second time in wrestling that I was able to say, "yeah, saw that coming." The first time being Sable going topless at Fully Loaded...

But yeah, it was one of those really obvious moments, with the two favorites, Undertaker and Stone Cold being out, it was easy to tell The Rock was winning. And that meant he had to turn to heel, since you just knew Austin was getting the belt back at 'Mania. I don't think many fans over the age of 16 were surprised and I was 13 at the time.

[Talent Name]

Nov 8, 2012 13:31:00 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Yeah, WWE could really stand to have a tournament with actual stakes about now. When was the last non-King of the Ring one, the Intercontinental title contendership one Punk won?

Also, a third question - what was the reaction to them doing the Montreal finish? On one hand it seems like a really unnecessary, stupid reference, but on the other it hadn't been beaten into the ground at that point.

The last tournament with stakes was the one to determine the number one contenders to the Tag Team Championships

[Frank In New York]

Nov 8, 2012 14:56:03 GMT -5 simplydurhamcalling said:

Nov 8, 2012 14:44:46 GMT -5 @rainbowrandy said:

If I recall correctly, there were a few murmurings of a Punk/Cena like "Same old WWF, afraid to have Rock overshadow their project, Austin." I remember a few people on an old board calling it, in their belief that the Fed wouldn't have a storyline similar to Austin-Vince.

People were already sick of Austin? He'd only been Main Eventing for a year! I was watching at the time but wasn't on the net, I would have been 12 and I only got to watch Livewire but I completely bought it and hated The Corporation.

Looking back it was incredibly well booked and it all worked out pretty well in the end.

Yeah that is pretty much what I recall being the reaction on the net at the time. I was kinda mad myself, though I wasn't mad at Austin or anything. The Montreal ripoff was fresh at the time so I think everyone just took it for what it was. It worked out well in the end though.

[Ryushinku]

I was surprised, I thought Foley was going to be (stay) the guy, but looking back on it after it did all make sense. I wasn't on the Net at that time, though, so don't know other reactions.

I still think it's the pinnacle of Russo's booking. All downhill after that, with a few upwards spikes here and there.

[Ishmeal Loves BBL Bayley]

I don't think it was the fact that Austin was over pushed as much as people wanted to love the Rock. This was my first memory of me being a smark. I was 14 at the time and I remember the reaction to he turn being quite negative. Lot of people thought they were going to go with Austin and Rock aligning together to take down the Corporation, led by Vince and Mankind. I myself thought it would culminate in Rock/Mankind for the title and Austin/Vince (or it old have been Austin/Big Show) at Mania XV.

[Marty McFry]

I loved this and although I was 17 at the time it really stayed with me for days afterwards.
It was such a clever turn in that the fans turned Rock face by cheering him over the likes of Foley & Shamrock and just as they were accepting him as the hot new main event face he turned heel and went corporate and to this day I say that his 1st post turn heel promo was every bit as good as hogans nWo promo.

It's just a shame it led to Russo believing every single storyline he wrote HAD to have a swerve turn.

[Crappler El 0 M]

I had mixed feelings about it. I loved the Rock as a heel in late 1997 through the early summer of 1998 and hated it when I could see WWF turning him face. I was happy he would be a heel again, but I was actually a little upset that his first WWF Championship win wasn't done in a bigger way.

[Deleted]

A lot of people should/do also remember Bret's "Wrestling With Shadows" documentary was about to be aired nationally on A&E television in December. (It had already been shown at a film festival in Toronto.)

The show-ending angle was a way to relieve themselves of some of the sting and backlash. It was the WWF telling us "No, we didn't screw Bret. It's a work! See, we did it again!" This time, Mick Foley playing the poor wrestler (Bret) looking to Vince as a sort-of father figure, the one who promised that he wouldn't let anything bad happen to him. Shoot, Mick was the guy who took on the 'mystery opponent' that was rumored very heavily to be Shawn Michaels but ended up being Duane Gill. Jim Ross heavily hyped this up as "We know what Vince is doing, this tournament is rigged! And Mankind is going to be the next champion!" (Especially after Stone Cold "got screwed".)

I know the Torch hated that ending. "Can Vince please move on from Montreal?! It's overplayed."

If anybody was suffering from overexposure, it wasn't Austin, as the fans were still really into him.
It was the sudden joining of forces between the Undertaker & Kane.
And they were in every segment. People were kinda 'meh' about the Undertaker around that time. As far as Kane, people saw him for what he was at the time, a recipient of a one-match 'fluke' title win. He was not a threatening monster, just a big guy in a costume.