biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
|
Post by biafra on Dec 14, 2012 15:53:30 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I'm really uncomfortable with comments like this. I certainly won't defend the guy, nobody should. There isn't any justifying what happened, full stop, end of story. But passing judgment regarding things like eternal damnation, I don't know; to me, it feels like an easy way to sidestep the most likely very real mental health issues involved. Caring about one's mental state goes out the window when people start seeing dead kids. Once you cross that line, nobody cares about what you went through. All they care about are the young lives lost. I think his point was that if we need to treat mental health like a public health situation. Cutting funding for mental health, and not giving it the priority it deserves results in things like this. |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 14, 2012 15:54:26 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I'm really uncomfortable with comments like this. I certainly won't defend the guy, nobody should. There isn't any justifying what happened, full stop, end of story. But passing judgment regarding things like eternal damnation, I don't know; to me, it feels like an easy way to sidestep the most likely very real mental health issues involved. Caring about one's mental state goes out the window when people start seeing dead kids. Once you cross that line, nobody cares about what you went through. All they care about are the young lives lost. That's all well and good, but then we come RIGHT BACK to this point as soon as something tragic happens again. And part of why it happens again is because we jump to judgment and damnation rather than leaping to "how do we fix this? How do we minimize cases of this happening again? How do we confront this issue and handle it?". |
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Dec 14, 2012 15:54:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I'm really uncomfortable with comments like this. I certainly won't defend the guy, nobody should. There isn't any justifying what happened, full stop, end of story. But passing judgment regarding things like eternal damnation, I don't know; to me, it feels like an easy way to sidestep the most likely very real mental health issues involved. Caring about one's mental state goes out the window when people start seeing dead kids. Once you cross that line, nobody cares about what you went through. All they care about are the young lives lost. Well with that thought process, we'll never put a stop to this crap. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 16:01:24 GMT -5
I really cannot believe that something like this would happen. The Aurora Shooting was one thing, but this is beyond sick. Sure, we have had the Columbine Shooting, the Virgina Tech Massacre, the Aurora Century Theater massacre, but little kids! LITTLE F***ING KIDS! I heard that the shooter killed himself. I guess he didn't want to die slowly and painfully in the general population. Believe me, he would have been an instant target. Little kids or not it's still lives and still a regular person. But I also do realize that they never got to experience life properly and live it to the fullest. |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 14, 2012 16:03:36 GMT -5
Yeah, it's the same feeling I had after the Benoit killings. What happened in the killings was gruesome beyond belief and could never be justified.
But what wound up happening in too many circles, sadly, was a back and forth of weird conspiracy theories, jumps to damnation, and other kneejerk reactions rather than a prolonged, nuanced, mature conversation about the very real risks and dangers involved with the wrestling business as it is currently constructed.
When we decide to fly off the handle, when we decide to let our anger direct our ability to reason, if we decide to go on the defensive as a first resort, then we lose the path towards constructive discussion and real solutions to very real problems.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,322 
Member is Online
|
Post by chazraps on Dec 14, 2012 16:06:33 GMT -5
Anybody chalking up today's events to some sort of government conspiracy is an absolute f***ing idiot.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Dec 14, 2012 16:06:53 GMT -5
Yeah, it's the same feeling I had after the Benoit killings. What happened in the killings was gruesome beyond belief and could never be justified. But what wound up happening in too many circles, sadly, was a back and forth of weird conspiracy theories, jumps to damnation, and other kneejerk reactions rather than a prolonged, nuanced, mature conversation about the very real risks and dangers involved with the wrestling business as it is currently constructed. When we decide to fly off the handle, when we decide to let our anger direct our ability to reason, if we decide to go on the defensive as a first resort, then we lose the path towards constructive discussion and real solutions to very real problems. Once again...I gotta agree with this. |
|
Unocal 76
King Koopa
Providing The Finest Oil
Posts: 12,687
|
Post by Unocal 76 on Dec 14, 2012 16:06:58 GMT -5
@andreawoo
Amid confusion over suspect ID (Adam/Ryan Lanza), NBC reporting gunman may have been carrying older brother's ID.
She's a Globe and Mail reporter
|
|
|
|
Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 14, 2012 16:08:09 GMT -5
I don't see this as a failure of the US mental health system. Maybe it's a contributing factor, but evil isn't a mental disease. Evil people are always going to be around. Even if evil IS a mental disorder, there's no way to catch this shit in every single person that has it. I don't see a point in playing the blame game anyway.
This is a tragedy and I feel awful for the families that this has decimated. It's Christmas for f***'s sake. What an awful time for this to happen.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadstock on Dec 14, 2012 16:09:47 GMT -5
Caring about one's mental state goes out the window when people start seeing dead kids. Once you cross that line, nobody cares about what you went through. All they care about are the young lives lost. That's all well and good, but then we come RIGHT BACK to this point as soon as something tragic happens again. And part of why it happens again is because we jump to judgment and damnation rather than leaping to "how do we fix this? How do we minimize cases of this happening again? How do we confront this issue and handle it?". The reality this countries outlook on metal care is a joke we label people, than there consider crazy feed them pills an keep them locked up for life. Whit many of them being normal people that are misunderstood or are in need of minimal special care. The horror stories i have heard from workers at facilities that these people are send too is terrifying. Its a broke system i dont know how to fix it but im willing to listen. As far as casting judgement goes we cannot cast judgement on someone only God can its not our place. But people like to know that there is consequences for actions like the ones this person committed. |
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,706
|
Post by The Ichi on Dec 14, 2012 16:10:17 GMT -5
f*** everything about humanity.
|
|
biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
|
Post by biafra on Dec 14, 2012 16:11:16 GMT -5
I don't see this as a failure of the US mental health system. Maybe it's a contributing factor, but evil isn't a mental disease. Evil people are always going to be around. Even if evil IS a mental disorder, there's no way to catch this s*** in every single person that has it. I don't see a point in playing the blame game anyway. This is a tragedy and I feel awful for the families that this has decimated. It's Christmas for f***'s sake. What an awful time for this to happen. Yet every god damn one of these assholes has tons of people coming up later talking about how off they were. Not angry toward you, at all. So please don't take my tone personally. If so many people can look back and say something was wrong..and it keeps happening something is broken. |
|
|
|
Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Dec 14, 2012 16:13:31 GMT -5
This truly is a sad event.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 16:16:49 GMT -5
I don't see this as a failure of the US mental health system. Maybe it's a contributing factor, but evil isn't a mental disease. Evil people are always going to be around. Even if evil IS a mental disorder, there's no way to catch this s*** in every single person that has it. I don't see a point in playing the blame game anyway. This is a tragedy and I feel awful for the families that this has decimated. It's Christmas for f***'s sake. What an awful time for this to happen. Yet every god damn one of these assholes has tons of people coming up later talking about how off they were. Not angry toward you, at all. So please don't take my tone personally. If so many people can look back and say something was wrong..and it keeps happening something is broken. But what is something wrong? There's plenty of people that might act a certain way or do certain things, but that doesn't mean they're going to shoot up a place. Then there's the stories of the seemingly normal guy that goes an murders his whole family. Sometimes there isn't warning signs for these incidents. |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 14, 2012 16:17:14 GMT -5
I don't see this as a failure of the US mental health system. Maybe it's a contributing factor, but evil isn't a mental disease. Evil people are always going to be around. Even if evil IS a mental disorder, there's no way to catch this s*** in every single person that has it. I don't see a point in playing the blame game anyway. This is a tragedy and I feel awful for the families that this has decimated. It's Christmas for f***'s sake. What an awful time for this to happen. This is where we differ: I don't fully believe in "evil" as a human condition. I believe humans are BEYOND capable of evil acts and evil consequences, of course, but to reduce things to "he was just evil, nothing we can do" oversimplifies things and, again, shuffles off OUR responsibility as a society to address these important issues. |
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Dec 14, 2012 16:19:14 GMT -5
Yet every god damn one of these assholes has tons of people coming up later talking about how off they were. If so many people can look back and say something was wrong..and it keeps happening something is broken. I agree with this. But I think it goes beyond that, it happens with the approach to things. It's not even just shootings like this, but just a widespread approach to all things newsworthy. In return, the public reacts the same way, a lot of the time with getting sidetrack with other explanations and details that don't matter and nothing gets done. |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 14, 2012 16:19:18 GMT -5
Yet every god damn one of these assholes has tons of people coming up later talking about how off they were. Not angry toward you, at all. So please don't take my tone personally. If so many people can look back and say something was wrong..and it keeps happening something is broken. But what is something wrong? There's plenty of people that might act a certain way or do certain things, but that doesn't mean they're going to shoot up a place. Then there's the stories of the seemingly normal guy that goes an murders his whole family. Sometimes there isn't warning signs for these incidents. I think the point is that if we didn't treat mental illness as such a terrible, potentially life-ruining label, more people with legitimate problems would be willing to step forward and seek treatment. Mental health is not a one-size-fits-all problem, and isn't something that can be handled with a single set of rules. But as things currently are, it's a huge stigma to have to overcome, and the mental problems don't just go away; they tend to grow and worsen over time. Again, none of this justifies a horrific act, but it's something that needs to be looked at and really discussed. |
|
|
|
Post by Stu on Dec 14, 2012 16:19:59 GMT -5
More or less the official word on the shooter's identity
WASHINGTON (AP) — A law enforcement official says the suspect in the Connecticut school shootings is 20-year-old Adam Lanza, the son of a teacher at the school where the shootings occurred. A second law enforcement official says the boy's mother, Nancy Lanza, is presumed dead.
The first official says Adam Lanza's older brother, 24-year-old Ryan, of Hoboken, N.J., is being questioned by police. An earlier report from a law enforcement official mistakenly transposed the brothers' first names.
Both officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the record about the developing criminal investigation.
The first official said Adam Lanza is dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
|
|
|
|
Post by xCompackx on Dec 14, 2012 16:21:01 GMT -5
Just putting this out there, but is there anything that could realistically be done to stop this? Like, you can put up metal detectors and stuff, but if someone's determined to do something like this is that really going to stop them? And about the "mental health" argument, what can you feasibly do to make sure that it doesn't get to that point? I'm not saying that nothing should be done, since obviously something isn't working but I just don't know what they could do.
|
|
biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
|
Post by biafra on Dec 14, 2012 16:21:46 GMT -5
Yet every god damn one of these assholes has tons of people coming up later talking about how off they were. Not angry toward you, at all. So please don't take my tone personally. If so many people can look back and say something was wrong..and it keeps happening something is broken. But what is something wrong? There's plenty of people that might act a certain way or do certain things, but that doesn't mean they're going to shoot up a place. Then there's the stories of the seemingly normal guy that goes an murders his whole family. Sometimes there isn't warning signs for these incidents. As someone who has been treated for mental illness, I should not be legally able to own a gun. If a person showed, god forbid, symptoms of a highly contagious, deadly virus they would remove them for the public safety. At least until they were well. The same should go for folks with mental illness, myself included. |
|
