Sauron's army kinda sucked...

[Ryback on a Pole!]

Reading Lord of the Rings at the moment and went on the LotR wiki and yeah.... his army was awful.

It seems every major battle his army outnumbered his enemies and got trounced nearly every time.

Battle of Minas Tirith - He apparently had over 200,000 orcs, 10,000 easterlings and 5000 haradim and lost to the Gondor/Rohan who had a total of 22,000 men at various times of the battle.


Makes me think if the Elves bother to get off their pasty asses and lifted a finger to help rather than pratting about in their forests the war might have ended a lot sooner or at least, made the battles easier to win with less deaths and such.

[Johnny B. Decent]

Probably because they seemed like a poorly disciplined, poorly trained horde. Plus, the Men of the West fought for their very lives, I would wager most Orcs hated Sauron.

[Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill]

I think the idea is that eventually the Men would get so worn out that they couldn't even fight anymore, because Saurons supply of Orcs was seemingly endless.

[Red Impact]

It was a Zerg rush, and it almost worked, but the Protoss and Terran combined their forces to fight it off long enough for the nuclear launch to hit Mordor.

[Deleted]

Most times, the orcs were winning until a cavalry arrived however.

Helm's Deep: The Uruk-Hai had it won until Gandalf and co (Eomer as well in the film) showed up on horseback.
Minas Tirith: The orcs, again, had it won, until Rohan showed up, though even then they fought back until Aragorn turned up with his guys (Not to mention, in the film, the orcs were cheated in that battle).
Mordor: The Ring's destruction was the gamechanger, the Free Men were only fighting for time.

[Legion]

The series was written during WWII and I've always wondered if there wasnt meant to be a mirror in regards the smaller but better trained forces being able to over comes the massive and great, but decided poorly led hordes paralleling Britain vs the Nazis, and then equally including a comparison of the Soviet/Stalin technique of winning a battle being to just throw a huge army in to the field and hope for the best

[Cela]

They were an effective siege force that was not overly prepared to battle on the open field.

Also, invincible Ghost Army.

[BoilerRoomBrawler]

Dec 22, 2012 12:38:31 GMT -5 Legion said:

The series was written during WWII and I've always wondered if there wasnt meant to be a mirror in regards the smaller but better trained forces being able to over comes the massive and great, but decided poorly led hordes paralleling Britain vs the Nazis, and then equally including a comparison of the Soviet/Stalin technique of winning a battle being to just throw a huge army in to the field and hope for the best

Probably not. The Eastern Front was (and continues to be) woefully underreported/taught. That and Tolkein directly stated that LotR was not inspired or based on WW2.


In any case, I look at the abilities of Sauron's army in two ways: 1) it's meant to put over theheroism of the heroic armies; 2) history is written by the victors.

[Legion]

Dec 22, 2012 12:54:09 GMT -5 BoilerRoomBrawler said:

Dec 22, 2012 12:38:31 GMT -5 Legion said:

The series was written during WWII and I've always wondered if there wasnt meant to be a mirror in regards the smaller but better trained forces being able to over comes the massive and great, but decided poorly led hordes paralleling Britain vs the Nazis, and then equally including a comparison of the Soviet/Stalin technique of winning a battle being to just throw a huge army in to the field and hope for the best

Probably not. The Eastern Front was (and continues to be) woefully underreported/taught. That and Tolkein directly stated that LotR was not inspired or based on WW2.


In any case, I look at the abilities of Sauron's army in two ways: 1) it's meant to put over theheroism of the heroic armies; 2) history is written by the victors.

Meh, Tolkien was a writer writing a book about a massive war featuring a small force going against an evil and massive one, and he was writing that while watching that unfold in real time in Europe.....but he was never influenced by it at all.....bollocks I say.

He just didnt want to admit it.

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

Maybe he was using the same plan as Zapp Brannigan with the Killbots.

[Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill]

Dec 22, 2012 13:01:10 GMT -5 Legion said:

Dec 22, 2012 12:54:09 GMT -5 BoilerRoomBrawler said:

Probably not. The Eastern Front was (and continues to be) woefully underreported/taught. That and Tolkein directly stated that LotR was not inspired or based on WW2.


In any case, I look at the abilities of Sauron's army in two ways: 1) it's meant to put over theheroism of the heroic armies; 2) history is written by the victors.

Meh, Tolkien was a writer writing a book about a massive war featuring a small force going against an evil and massive one, and he was writing that while watching that unfold in real time in Europe.....but he was never influenced by it at all.....bollocks I say.

He just didnt want to admit it.

It was based off his own experience in WWI more than anything.

[Push R Truth]

Dec 22, 2012 13:01:10 GMT -5 Legion said:

Dec 22, 2012 12:54:09 GMT -5 BoilerRoomBrawler said:

Probably not. The Eastern Front was (and continues to be) woefully underreported/taught. That and Tolkein directly stated that LotR was not inspired or based on WW2.


In any case, I look at the abilities of Sauron's army in two ways: 1) it's meant to put over theheroism of the heroic armies; 2) history is written by the victors.

Meh, Tolkien was a writer writing a book about a massive war featuring a small force going against an evil and massive one, and he was writing that while watching that unfold in real time in Europe.....but he was never influenced by it at all.....bollocks I say.

He just didnt want to admit it.

Tolkien fought in WWI (and I believe was mustard gassed). The stalemates and sieges of the books are influenced by The War to End All Wars. This additionally fueled his love of horses and Calvary... which was ended quickly by the tank by WWII.
It's a mix of religion, longing for the simple life on the unspoiled farm and WWI.

Plus other little things, because it's never that simple.

[Legion]

Tanks were used in WWI, they just broke down a lot.

Certainly the alliance system and such has a very old world Europe feel to it, but the later books especially have some clear, as far as I can see, parallels to WWII. So even if he wasnt intending it and it was all subconscious simply from WWII being everywhere and post war Britain still very influenced by it anyway, the LotR books have some parallels much more obviously with the Second World War than the First.

[Glitch]

What was the difference between Sauron's army in the book and in the film?(although I'm guessing the conveniently advanced weaponry must be one thing)

[ICBM]

I don't really think there is a lot of difference between the film army and the novel. The film makes them look disciplined in some areas but grabastic in others. The outpost adjacent chelobs lair is a good example of this. He force marched his army all the way then made them fight on no rest against a well defended force(Minas Tirith would be a beeotch to storm). This isn't so smart no matter what your numbers. The ride of the rohirim, showed how mobility, violence of action and psychological warfarin can influence a battle at a key point. The vanguard of saurons force is in the city's first and second level when they show up. So it is the less hardcore, less motivated less disciplined troops left standing out in the field suddenly scarred witless of the cavalry. The charge itself is effective alone, but the synergistic effects enable 12000 to accomplish what 30000 would. Force multiplication