Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 23, 2012 2:04:52 GMT -5
I was a wrestling fan on the internet in 2000 and I can tell you there was a LOT of hate directed towards The Rock, saying his act was stale, his promos were all the same, and that he couldn't wrestle.
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Post by joebob27 on Dec 23, 2012 2:07:09 GMT -5
I was a wrestling fan on the internet in 2000 and I can tell you there was a LOT of hate directed towards The Rock, saying his act was stale, his promos were all the same, and that he couldn't wrestle. Yeah, I don't think there's many people that are exempt from that. Everyone gets popular and then gets very stale quickly with the net fans... and hell the regular fans normally follow suit. I mean Cena got stale with that audience like 6-7 years ago. Not much has changed.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 23, 2012 2:10:19 GMT -5
I was a wrestling fan on the internet in 2000 and I can tell you there was a LOT of hate directed towards The Rock, saying his act was stale, his promos were all the same, and that he couldn't wrestle. The Rock's promos were all the same. But his energy and charisma made up for that lack of substance in his promos. He wasn't a technical wizard, but he was far from a bad wrestler. And again, his energy and charisma made up for it.
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Post by celticjobber on Dec 23, 2012 2:35:21 GMT -5
Also, people don't really hate Cena because he's a company guy. They hate him because he's a complete dork that almost never looks vulnerable. I say this as a fan of the guy. I also know alot of people who hate Cena because they sincerely believe he "can't wrestle". It's like they think he walked right off the streets and into WWE without a day of training. You can also find people who think that in the comments sections of many Youtube videos.
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Post by HollywoodArmbar on Dec 23, 2012 2:55:51 GMT -5
There are plenty of things about Cena's character that some people don't like, I'd suggest the 'company man' reason is probably somewhere down the list.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 23, 2012 3:17:14 GMT -5
For me, in terms of kayfabe, it's really quite simple.
An example:
CM Punk cuts his 'pipe bomb' promo in June 2011, taking shots at the front office people, including Vince McMahon, Stephanie McMahon, Triple H, and John Laurinaitis.
Almost a year later, John Cena main-events the Over the Limit pay-per-view with John Laurinaitis who, by that point, is playing the 'evil boss' heel character. And yes, while Laurinaitis was heeling it up with Cena for awhile before this match, as much as he was also heeling it up with CM Punk, the fact that CM Punk was the guy who called Laurinaitis out and then isn't the guy to have a pay-per-view main-event match with him is absurd. Being anti-authority was a part of CM Punk's gimmick post-'pipe bomb' promo, but somehow that got transferred to John Cena. Why? Who knows. Why even bother trying to smash a new main-event babyface over in the mold of a Stone Cold Steve Austin when the guy who's been the main-event babyface for the past seven years could use more attempts to try to garner majority positive reactions with the crowd when everyone knows it just won't take...
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 23, 2012 3:34:09 GMT -5
I was a wrestling fan on the internet in 2000 and I can tell you there was a LOT of hate directed towards The Rock, saying his act was stale, his promos were all the same, and that he couldn't wrestle. To be fair there was a lot of odd booking going on that seemed designed to rustle the jimmies of the internet. Stuff like when Benoit would win the title from The Rock and then have it reversed by Mick Foley. I think that happened at least twice.
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Dec 23, 2012 4:11:28 GMT -5
Cuz company guys are annoying at any job. We don't own the company, why should we like that he's the company guy? Not saying I have a problem with him being the company guy, more power to him, I'm just not gonna think "Cena's so stale, but he makes Vince a lot of money so I like him now." Granted, I'm not much of a Cena hater, but I don't see how him towing the company line is a quality I HAVE to like.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 23, 2012 4:30:26 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan was getting the same type of feedback like Cena in the late 80's, early 90's. Crowds starting to turn against him. People wanted anyone but Hulk as the face of the company. WWF tried building different people like Warrior, Flair, Savage, and Bret and put Hogan in feuds with Sid and others to keep him the spotlight and out of the main event scene. The only thing that forced WWF's hand in moving on was Hogan joining WCW.
The Rock also received the Cena treatment. He was just lucky enough that his Hollywood career took off when it did. If he had stuck around, we'll be complaining how he's keeping talent like Cena and Orton out of the main event picture. Or how much a corporate kiss ass he is. Or how played out his shtick is.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Dec 23, 2012 4:56:23 GMT -5
The only reason I think Cena is as maligned as he is now is because he's stale. Punk was using company kiss ass to play smarks against him, and it worked. It still does. Not that it's logical, though.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 23, 2012 7:15:50 GMT -5
For me, in terms of kayfabe, it's really quite simple. An example: CM Punk cuts his 'pipe bomb' promo in June 2011, taking shots at the front office people, including Vince McMahon, Stephanie McMahon, Triple H, and John Laurinaitis. Almost a year later, John Cena main-events the Over the Limit pay-per-view with John Laurinaitis who, by that point, is playing the 'evil boss' heel character. And yes, while Laurinaitis was heeling it up with Cena for awhile before this match, as much as he was also heeling it up with CM Punk, the fact that CM Punk was the guy who called Laurinaitis out and then isn't the guy to have a pay-per-view main-event match with him is absurd. Being anti-authority was a part of CM Punk's gimmick post-'pipe bomb' promo, but somehow that got transferred to John Cena. Why? Who knows. Why even bother trying to smash a new main-event babyface over in the mold of a Stone Cold Steve Austin when the guy who's been the main-event babyface for the past seven years could use more attempts to try to garner majority positive reactions with the crowd when everyone knows it just won't take... Punk had laid out Laurinaitus in January. And Cena had called out Vince and flat out told him he'd quit, if Vince didn't honor his contracts. Punk just demanded ridiculous things in his new contract. Basically Cena always took confronting the boss more seriously than Punk did
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Post by Snaptastic on Dec 23, 2012 7:25:18 GMT -5
I was a wrestling fan on the internet in 2000 and I can tell you there was a LOT of hate directed towards The Rock, saying his act was stale, his promos were all the same, and that he couldn't wrestle. To be fair there was a lot of odd booking going on that seemed designed to rustle the jimmies of the internet. Stuff like when Benoit would win the title from The Rock and then have it reversed by Mick Foley. I think that happened at least twice. Thankfully I was still a marky mark back then (I knew it was scripted but still) and I used to mark like a madman for Rock winning. He was to me at that time everything sports entertainment should be. He was engaging, held you in the palm of his hand...you almost hung off every word. Not only that, but whilst he isn't a perfect wrestler, he had mannerisms and a uniqueness about his style that made you pay attention. Maybe it's because I'm older or something, but nothing about Cena stands out or is engaging. People go on about the PG Era...yet Smackdown was always a PG show back during the Attitude Era and that was 10x better than some RAWs these days.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 23, 2012 15:36:48 GMT -5
No one hates Cena for being a company guy. No one. Anywhere. Ever. That is a myth.
People, as a rule, don't like antiheroes more than good heroes, either. That's a myth, too. Austin exploded because he was so different from face Hogan, who was what everyone thought of when they thought of pro wrestling. It's just that everyone in the WWE is super aware of how top guys have to be "chosen" by Vince et al, and so they immediately go there when they do the stupid worked shoot thing.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,085
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 23, 2012 16:42:37 GMT -5
No one hates Cena for being a company guy. No one. Anywhere. Ever. That is a myth. Not so sure about that. Even though people respect Cena for the time and dedication he puts in, "Corporate" has an implication of "holds down the little guy", so yeah, some people (though I personally don't) resent him for that. But they'd resent anybody else if they were in the same position, being the face of the faceless big, bad corporation.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 23, 2012 16:54:49 GMT -5
all this stuff about the problem is with Cena being on top so long overlook the fact that this is nothing new.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 23, 2012 18:48:56 GMT -5
People don't prefer antiheroes, so much as they need to completely despise the antagonist, to the point where sometimes, someone also quasi-rotten rises to give them a taste of their own medicine.
A true hero however is only as likeable as his foil is hated. If you have a story where you, the reader or watcher, prefer the bad guy or pull for him to win, it means you've failed as a storyteller. That's the advantage wrestling had before the last boom. Bad guys were BAD GUYS. We were entertained by Ted DiBiase, but we didn't want to see him win in the end. But today, they've somehow managed to destroy the archetype two-fold. One is they've made the heroes these strange Mary Sue characters that combine all the frankenstein parts of different mega-face acts into one unrelatable hybrid creature of contradiction -- Cena the worst of the lot. He is the most inconsistently booked mega-face in WWE history. He contradicts prior ramfications and arcs constantly, destroying any and all true emotional attachment/connection to his character at every turn. In order to truly love something, you have to be afraid that you can lose it. Hulk Hogan made us believe that Earthquake had ended his career. John Cena has perpetually convinced us that nothing can take him down, making any investment in feeling danger for him, or fallout, impossible.
The other archetype of heels ruined is that they are now the underdog, instead of the evil empire or bully. The faces, as mentioned, are given everything from a character standpoint, and the heels are basically Wile E. Coyote or the Trix Rabbit. To the creators, who have their creator's pets success in mind all along, it seems like business as usual. But human nature is to want to see the downtrodden rise and overcome obstacles --especially if they come across as unfair. There came a point where most kids, tired of seeing him fail to a smug "good guy" time after time, wanted Wile E. to get that Road Runner. And it's the same in pro wrestling.
Bad guys should have all the breaks and advantages and have management backing them. The good guys should have to claw and scratch to get what's theirs -- that way when they do, it feels like an accomplishment. Sadly, WWE presents the complete opposite scenario today.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 20:07:02 GMT -5
His role as a 'company man' in his philanthropic endeavors isn't seen as bad as far as I've seen.
But in terms of how in terms of storyline character - when a character gets everything handed them (title shot after title shot) it comes off as favoritism and makes the character seem unsympathetic.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 20:52:33 GMT -5
Part of it, I think, is that he's a company guy, the face of WWE, in a business that doesn't have a solid competitor.
It would be one thing if we were back in the Monday Night Wars era and Cena was the face of the company pitted against the face of another one. Since WWE is seen by many as the only game in town, it seems to me that it's easy for him to be overexposed.
WWE needs a rival. I don't think it'll happen anytime soon. TNA can have a great product but it doesn't have the scope that WCW had and, at this point, I'd love for it to get that sort of momentum going.
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