SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jan 4, 2013 16:31:09 GMT -5
While I can't agree completely with Nash, he also isnt totally wrong, either No, he is, because his entire selling point of Goldberg being "injured" and putting his fist through the limo were events that happened one year AFTER the finger-poke. The guy can't even get his timeline right. Maybe the "know-it-alls" should buy him a 1999 calendar, because apparently his started in 2000.
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Post by Super Nintenjoe KBD on Jan 4, 2013 16:42:30 GMT -5
Didnt the 2nd Monday Night "War" start on this date as well? Wowzers!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 16:45:26 GMT -5
While I can't agree completely with Nash, he also isnt totally wrong, either No, he is, because his entire selling point of Goldberg being "injured" and putting his fist through the limo were events that happened one year AFTER the finger-poke. The guy can't even get his timeline right. Maybe the "know-it-alls" should buy him a 1999 calendar, because apparently his started in 2000. Exactly, and Nash had said the same stuff previously on the "Legends of Wrestling" roundtable that's on the NWO Blu-ray. Goldberg's injury was in December 1999, so it doesn't explain the events of January-March 1999 (Hogan feuding with Ric Flair rather than Goldberg). Goldberg had a ladder match with Scott Hall at the Jan. '99 PPV, then moved to Bam Bam Bigelow.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Jan 4, 2013 16:58:06 GMT -5
While I don't completely agree with Nash, there are moments where I do think he raises a good point. The fingerpoke was a stupid mistake, no doubt about it, but I don't think it was what "doomed" WCW as much as its long-term business mindset, which was flawed and self-destructive. Foley sums it up pretty well in the end of the interview where he says that even if we'd seen Nash vs. Goldberg that night, WCW's mistakes would probably have killed them in the end. I also agree with him when he points out that we have the benefit of looking back at this stuff 14-15 years after it all went down. It's one thing to observe with the full benefit of hindsight, after numerous interviews and books on the subject and say what we would or would not have done, but it's quite another to actually be in that situation, and be the guy making the decisions as the events are happening. Like most of what Nash says, I think he's right in some areas, wrong in others. But those are just the thoughts of a [know-it-all] fan... And as an aside, I have to say that I rolled my eyes when Foley talked about how he was hurt by the whole "asses in seats" bit. C'mon, it's professional wrestling.
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Jan 4, 2013 18:00:28 GMT -5
I love how .com is censoring out the term smark/smart mark and putting "know-it-all fans"
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 18:40:42 GMT -5
I love how .com is censoring out the term smark/smart mark and putting "know-it-all fans" LOSER...LEAVES! (know-it-all fans)
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Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Jan 4, 2013 19:05:52 GMT -5
Funny thing is, I remember the next day on CNN, they did a story on how Hogan had defeated Nash the previous night for the title with the fingerpoke. Figures, the ONE time WCW and another part of the Turner Broadcasting/Time Warner show some corporate synergy..... Once Turner was out, the brass at Time Warner wanted nothing to do with wrestling. Ted Turner had a soft spot for WCW so if he stayed in power, he would have kept WCW on life support until it can't go any longer. "I started this channel (TBS) with nothing more than a garbage bag full of old wrestling tapes I found by a dumpster behind a Denny's and now it's the crown jewel of cable television!"
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 4, 2013 20:44:06 GMT -5
Most of what Nash is saying seems to make sense to me, honestly.
Also I hope [know-it-alls] becomes a meme.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Jan 4, 2013 23:15:23 GMT -5
How did I miss this? Nash abusing the word "smarks" and WWE.com covering it with [know-it-alls] is hilarious.
Never change, Nash.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,036
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jan 4, 2013 23:24:18 GMT -5
I love how .com is censoring out the term smark/smart mark and putting "know-it-all fans" LOSER...LEAVES! (know-it-all fans)THE ROCK...has a great.....[know-it-all fans]
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Post by Rocket N. Nine on Jan 5, 2013 2:36:57 GMT -5
LOSER...LEAVES! (know-it-all fans)THE ROCK...has a great.....[know-it-all fans] RIKISHI...just snatched the...[know-it-all fans]
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,483
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 5, 2013 9:46:53 GMT -5
While I can't agree completely with Nash, he also isnt totally wrong, either No, he is, because his entire selling point of Goldberg being "injured" and putting his fist through the limo were events that happened one year AFTER the finger-poke. The guy can't even get his timeline right. Maybe the "know-it-alls" should buy him a 1999 calendar, because apparently his started in 2000. I'm more referring to the Finger-poke not being *THE* turning point. I actually agree that WM14 and the Tyson stuff was it. And he's also right that people were beginning to turn on Goldberg. Listen to the pop when Nash power bombs him and gets the 3 count.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 5, 2013 11:38:07 GMT -5
WCW was basically toast before Jan. 4, 1999. They won the ratings for the last time with the bogus DDP/Goldberg deal, but largely through Nov. and Dec. 1998 they were getting killed. My friend has a different theory on WCW's demise: "Jim Hellwig killed WCW." And oddly enough, from a quality standpoint their shows completely cratered once Warrior came in.
Let's dispel the silly argument that Turner lost power and thus WCW went bye bye. Look, if WCW was any semblance of a profitable company do you seriously think Time Warner/AOL would have pulled the plug or sold the company to Vince? WCW lost 60 million dollars in 2000. A company can't do that and put forth the horrendous programming they were producing in 1999 and 2000 and expect to survive without heads rolling.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,159
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Post by agent817 on Jan 5, 2013 11:47:48 GMT -5
Wow, it's really been 14 years?
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Post by Big Daddy Bad Booking on Jan 5, 2013 21:15:42 GMT -5
Wow, it's really been 14 years? Shockingly yes. It feels like a lifetime ago, especially in sports entertainment.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,719
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 6, 2013 1:57:59 GMT -5
It was a confluence of factors, I think, that killed WCW. The overall expenditure by Time Warner was one: WCW _never_ made money for TimeWarner and, for that reason alone, was going to be among the first items chopped when circumstances required or allowed it. There are likely former wrestlers today still living off the pay from their WCW runs.
Second was the Internet: whatever the IWC was throwing out to the world with conjecture or rumors (or actual info), at least some of that was sticking. Once Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara's names began being associated with the level of chain-yanking that mocked both fans and the craft, they became the scapegoats for WCW's eventual failure, along with Bischoff. Once it came out that Nash and Hogan were sitting in on booking meetings and burying the entire roster except for friends and sycophants, more fans were alienated, and spread that bit of info around - it no longer mattered whether it was true or not.
Third was the response from WWF: it took a number of talents from ECW, some of them WCW alumni, and hotshotted them to the main event. It did more than that, however; by taking in Steve Austin and Mick Foley and revitalizing the Undertaker and others, it infused into WWF's branding and style a higher concentration of the Southern "flavor", replacing the staid, sterile booking style and its focus on caricature with the raw, emotional, blood-feuds and envelope=pushing promos intended to keep fans emotionally vested and on edge. There was no division here between face and heel except for the sheer rage one felt against the idea that all was under some force's control. Meanwhile, WCW was unable to evolve past the nWo storyline in a way which could sustain WCW: in every permutation, nWo had to come out on top.
Fourth was how WCW was treating their roster: again, the nWo angle virtually buried the entire WCW roster and made WCW look bad as a result. The fan base was left with very little to cheer for, certainly no hope of a decent main event: and many of the wrestlers themselves stopped caring. When it came out that the Radicalz had left for the WWF en masse, with Benoit leaving behind the WCW World title he'd won for the first time only the night before, the fans understood how bad things had become, and lost several of the last reasons they had for watching WCW.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 6, 2013 11:43:10 GMT -5
Didn't WCW make money for the entirety of 1997?
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Post by flatsdomino on Jan 6, 2013 21:21:38 GMT -5
And then, 11 years later to the day....THE NEW WARS BEGAN.
And then ended about 4 months later.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jan 7, 2013 3:05:32 GMT -5
Meltzer had a great point on this over at F4W the other night:
"No one thing killed WCW.
Actually I take that back.
One thing killed WCW. Complete stupidity. Just 100's of examples, no singular one was the killer.
It's like if somebody dies from lung cancer, trying to argue which individual cigarette killed them.
Or in the case of some in charge of WCW, arguing that cigarettes have no relation to cancer, and it was the doctor who took WCW off life support that killed them, not the cigarettes."
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Jan 7, 2013 4:15:59 GMT -5
things only became WORSE for WCW quality-wise, besides a good period between March-May 99. after that, everything fell apart, old stale guys at the top, deserving midcarders getting burnt through meaningless stable feuds, nonsensical storylines galore, Russo coming in and doing his crash&burn crap
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