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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 14, 2013 0:19:24 GMT -5
I think you can debate that the time period between 96 and WrestleMania XIV was a buffer between New Generation and the Attitude Era with the Attitude Era starting the Raw after WrestleMania XIV with the debut of the new belt and the Austin era starting, alongside the new DX.
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Essential1
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Post by Essential1 on Jan 14, 2013 7:27:55 GMT -5
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Post by DoubleDare on Jan 14, 2013 8:09:05 GMT -5
The first Raw Is War was March 10th 1997, so that could be considered a good starting point, but even then 1997 was the transitional year to it, Survivor Series 1997 was when they officially started it (first wwf attitude promo aired), and Wrestlemania 14 was when it was 100% here with the former new generation era being shedded.
On the end, Wrestlemania X-Seven marked that it was ending, and I would say 2001 was the transitional period, with Wrestlemania X8 being the final nail into the attitude era's coffin, especially with the brand split happening 2-3 weeks later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2013 10:39:10 GMT -5
The Attitude era didn't really have a definite beginning, it just sort of quickly transitioned into it.
The "official" start was that Vince introduction on Raw, but a lot of the elements were in place quite a while before that (Pillman, Goldust, etc.).
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Death by Pickles!
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Post by Death by Pickles! on Jan 14, 2013 12:08:26 GMT -5
I've always heard that "unofficially" it started when Austin beat Michaels for the title @ WM 14 (?), & ended @ WM 17.
Wasn't Survivor Series '97 when WWE started using that "Attitude" promo? Then the next (?) night was the Bret Screwed Bret promo. I always thought of that as a good candidate for a start point.
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TGM
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Post by TGM on Jan 14, 2013 12:33:52 GMT -5
Potential starts -Bret Hart's post Wrestlemania 12 hissy fit -Steve Austin winning KOTR 1996 -Steve Austin's bloody face at WM13 -First RAW IS WAR -Formation of DX -Survivor Series 1997 -Wrestlemania 1998
Potential ends -Who ran over Steve Austin -Wrestlemania 17 -End of the Invasion/Return of Ric Flair -Jericho first Undisputed Champion -Brand Split/Reign of Terror/Smackdown 6 -Rise of Cena/Batista/Orton/Edge -Return of ECW -End of single brand PPVs
These are just some of the big events that you could use as markers for the stop/start. Personally, I don't think it began or ended at any one point, different aspects were dropped or replaced at different times, but I think most of the spirit of the era left with the Brand Split and WWE started to change the way it's wrestlers were booked (ie. given a gimmick and writers, instead of getting themselves over with their own ideas). If I was going to have to put a start, then I'd go with Bret throwing a tantrum after the WM12 match, that sowed the seeds, and then by his return, I think late 1996 WWE has more in common with late 1997 WWE, than it does 1995 WWE.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jan 14, 2013 21:39:00 GMT -5
It began back in Montreal, but I have it officially as the night after Wrestlemania 14. That was the night the Mr. McMahon character first started developing.
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Post by eldandyjamupguy on Jan 14, 2013 21:47:50 GMT -5
Started: Survivor Series 97
Ended: KOTR 01
The seeds had been planted for a year +, but WWF officially kicked the door down in Montreal. There was just a different ora around the WWF and their product after SS 97. People like to focus on austin as the #1 Attitude Era guy, but Mr. McMahon stepping away from the table and becoming the greatest heel of all time and giving the hero a villain worth fighting against is what made the Attitude Era the Attitude Era. SS 97 is the night Mr. McMahon arrived.
King of the Ring 2001 was the last Attitude Era PPV. The second guys like DDP and Booker T showed up, that Era ended and new one (Invasion Era) began.
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RedDevil
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Post by RedDevil on Jan 14, 2013 21:50:48 GMT -5
We can argue over the details of when exactly the whole thing started in terms of the first move in that direction - but for me the discussion cannot start later than the feud between Bret Hart and Steve Austin. Whether you call it Survivor Series 96, winter 97 or WrestleMania 13 - Bret's changing relationship with the American fans after years of being the lead face, and the development of Austin as a face that acted as a heel is THE key ingredient for the new Attitude Era in my view.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 14, 2013 23:55:50 GMT -5
For me, it really started with Bret Hart's heel turn. Some edgier stuff had already happened here and there, but you can really see the shift in the entire product around that time.
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cherry coloured funk
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Post by cherry coloured funk on Jan 15, 2013 0:00:04 GMT -5
I think the first seeds were planted when Diesel threw Bret through the announce table at Survivor Series 1995. WWF had been coming off of a string of embarrassing PPVs, and it was obvious the tone was changing.
The next In Your House had Bret's blade job (though there's some controversy on whether this was authorized or not), and Jarrett breaking glass over Ahmed Johnson's head. The next PPV had Diesel give Undertaker the finger, etc., etc. Little Attitude-y things started creeping in more and more from then on in.
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bigmackdaddy
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Post by bigmackdaddy on Jan 18, 2013 19:40:00 GMT -5
The beginning I don't know, but this was definitely the end:
WWF @ Tacoma, WA - Tacoma Dome - July 2, 2001 Raw is War WCW World Champion Booker T fought Buff Bagwell to a no contest when Steve Austin and Kurt Angle interfered; Austin, Angle, and Bagwell triple teamed Booker all the way backstage before throwing him out of the arena; moments thereafter, Austin and Angle jumped Bagwell and threw him out of the arena as well
Anyone remember that turkey? That was the point you could say a shitty era was at hand.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Jan 18, 2013 23:11:58 GMT -5
I'd say the first rumblings were in 95/6 with Goldust and Mankind, but the first Official Moment of Attitude was the 96 KOTR promo.....the die was cast quickly, and the rest of the WWE/F had to change itself to fit Him.
As for the end, I'd say the beginning of the end was WM 17, and the last somewhat gasp was WM 19, with the final meeting of Austin and the Rock, and the last WM appearance of the Biker Taker.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 10:09:00 GMT -5
I think the first seeds were planted when Diesel threw Bret through the announce table at Survivor Series 1995. WWF had been coming off of a string of embarrassing PPVs, and it was obvious the tone was changing. The next In Your House had Bret's blade job (though there's some controversy on whether this was authorized or not), and Jarrett breaking glass over Ahmed Johnson's head. The next PPV had Diesel give Undertaker the finger, etc., etc. Little Attitude-y things started creeping in more and more from then on in. The thing about Diesel's "turn" was he became more of a "tweener" than an actual heel. He did a promo talking about how he only does things his way and only for the people who "wear the black gloves". (The fans who still cheered him.) Kind of a dry run for the Outsiders. By then, people started to cheer who they liked, not for who we were TOLD TO like. I mean, up until then, the announcers could influence a heel turn or a face turn, but for the first time, it was almost like you were ENCOURAGED to MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND about a guy. (Maybe they realized a lot of what they were telling us to like/dislike was really just seeing if crap could stick to the wall.) You could also say when Shawn Michaels won the WWF title, there was a sense of chaos as far as the fans were concerned. The ladies (of course) loved Shawn, some of the kids were fans of Shawn, but the males started to rebel against the "Boy Toy" crap (especially with Vince constantly putting him over and fawning over him) and started to openly cheer bad asses: Vader, Sid, Mankind, Steve Austin. The longer Shawn's reign got, the more the males started to boo Shawn. Fast-forward to Survivor Series 1996 in Madison Square Garden, the fans practically "turned" on Shawn and openly supported Sycho Sid - to the point where Vince actually stopped commentating, stood up, removed his head-set and looked at the crowd in disbelief, wondering "WTF?!" Raw Magazine (Vince Russo/Kevin Kelly) said the so-called "official start" of the Attitude (anything can happen) Era was usually looked at as April 21st, 1997 (the night after IYH: Revenge of the Taker), when Austin called out Bret, had the impromptu street fight, carted Bret off in an ambulance (Owen Hart's WATCH HIS LEG! still cracks me up) and Steve as the "driver" beating up Bret showed the level of unpredictability the show has become. Edit: And don't forget Shotgun Saturday Night, which had a little Attitude of its own, starting in January 1997. More open cursing (tyvm, Terry Funk), Marlena dropping her top to distract the Sultan, Sunny's jealousy, a lot more "insider" references, etc. Just some thoughts. I hope I helped flesh out the scene.
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Post by fllptheswitch on Jan 19, 2013 12:27:58 GMT -5
It started at WM 13 with the Bret/Austin turn. It ended at WM 17 with Austins heel turn.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 19, 2013 12:44:37 GMT -5
KOTR 1996
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repomark
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Post by repomark on Jan 20, 2013 9:30:44 GMT -5
I would tend to agree there were a lot of hints before they ran with it fully - like Goldust in late 95/early 96 and then Mankind's character post Wrestlemania 12. I think the true beginning for me would be King of the Ring 96 when Austin delivered the 3:16 speech. It still took time from then, but the seeds had been planted.
The end to me still feels like when Austin toasted and shared a beer with Vince at WM17. Without Austin v McMahon the era just felt over.
It could also be argued it ended the moment Vince bought WCW.
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Post by steamboat1 on Jan 20, 2013 18:58:22 GMT -5
The night Bret Hart got screwed in the cage match, look right at Vince Mcmahon and said "Bullshit". Absolutely the start. The end is debatable but this was really the first moment where you really knew Vince was in charge and your number 1 face at the time dropping bombs in his promo.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Jan 20, 2013 19:14:09 GMT -5
I don't think there's any one definitive start or end point to the Attitude Era. While I personally recognize much more symbolic beginnings and endings (Wrestlemania 14 and the WWF/WWE name change in 2002), a case could be made that the Goldust/Piper Brawl, King of the Ring 1996, Austin/Pillman, Bret Hart's breakdown in early 1997, Bret/Austin at Wrestlemania 13, Canada/U.S.A., the Montreal Screwjob, Vince McMahon's speech about changing directions with the company creatively, and the appearance of Mike Tyson are all a part of a general shift in WWE's presentation and the content to which what was presented.
Conversely, you could point to events like when McMahon bought WCW, Wrestlemania 17, the appearance of a WCW wrestler (Lance Storm) on WWF television, a WCW main-event on Raw, the entirety of the InVasion, the end of the InVasion, the arrival of the NWO, the name-change from WWF to WWE, and the rise of Brock Lesnar all as possible endings depending on your perspective.
I like to think of the Attitude Era more as something that happened before it was properly named before it became a brand slogan. It's kind of like what Arn Anderson says about naming the Four Horsemen; it wasn't an executive booking decision to create the Four Horsemen, it just happened. To me, it's kind of the same with the Attitude Era, and when McMahon went on television to say that the WWF product was changing because so much of what wrestling used to be had since become 'passé', the horse was already out of the barn, so to speak.
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