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Post by CubsFan71 on Jan 16, 2013 0:33:44 GMT -5
damn shame she quite. She was one of the few divas worth watching
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 0:53:16 GMT -5
Yeah and about all those babies that she's having... Re-read the first thing that I said: "No, the difference with all three of the people that you mentioned was that they were each signed, they weren't romantically linked to anyone who's relevant outside the wrestling business." I'm not saying that marriage and kids weren't important or didn't play a role. In fact, you and Wolf aren't wrong at all in the things that you are stating. But what I was saying is that signing someone who's in a relationship with a rich guy and has all the conditions to basically bail on her contract at the drop of a hat is a bad idea. Trish's decision, Michelle's decision, and ostensibly Beth's decision, all came up while they were still on the roster, but that doesn't happen for everybody. Eve was already with someone though, and as soon as she was signed, she had a backup plan in case she wanted to leave for whatever reason. Sorry, but you are still extrapolating. What we have are the reasons that were given to us explicitly by those performers. Trish was ready to move on with her life. She may have changed her mind, she may have a hard time having children, we don't know and I felt it would be disrespectful to imply that she was really leaving for other reasons if that's what she said. And while I usually agree with you I think it is very gross and in poor taste to call someone's personal romantic relationship a freaking BACK UP plan. What the hell is that? Eve Torres is an engineer, who is personally accomplished and by all reports a very nice and hard working person. That is so disrespectful, to think that she was leaving because she finally got her man. Perhaps she's leaving because she just doesn't want to spend time away from her husband, you know, like Trish, Michelle, and Beth (obstensibly) would like to do. There's this thing where you're female and your fertility starts running out and you have to think about having children, by the age of about 30 it enters your mind. Devaluing her contributions or her as a worker because of this personal issue is f***ed up and beyond disrespectful to both her, her fiance and the roster. I'm really galled that you would say this. It's a privacy/respect issue. I don't think it's fair to start making assumptions as to the why and how people left when it concerns something so personal and sensitive. I would rather take her word for it if that's how she felt/what she wanted to do at the time. It's not up to us to sit here and say she was lying because she couldn't take WWE anymore. I think maybe you should stop extrapolating. Because I never said she left because she "got her man." Here's what I said originally, read it: This is what WWE deserves for pushing girls who aren't interested in being career wrestlers. Even before she got signed she was dating a Gracie, and those guys are made of money...did WWE really expect her to owe them any kind of fealty with their ridiculous travel schedule and demands?Out of curiosity, what do you call it when someone is between jobs and their source of money in between jobs is someone they live with? It's a backup plan because it's not that person's primary source. Is there something wrong to assume that, all other things being equal, someone who doesn't need a company's money is a less reliable worker for that company than someone who does need the money? Someone like Eve is a lot more likely to leave at the drop of a hat because she can afford to. You and everyone else who's arguing with me need to understand that I'm not saying that she's leaving BECAUSE she has money, but the money she already has means that should she ever want to leave for whatever reason, it is substantially easier to do so.
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Post by Ash Kingston on Jan 16, 2013 1:01:18 GMT -5
Okay, what's the backstory on this? Some promotional thing with the Golden Knights WWE did a while back, as you can tell by Punk's hair style and Cody. During the entire thing Punk and Eve seemed to be joking around alot with each other. Which, of course, made some people on this board jump to the natural conclusion that Punk broke Beth's heart for Eve, and Punk & Eve were boinking on the side. Never mind that ADR, Kofi and Punk were all joking around just about as much with each other. Gotta love the internet. ...wait, that's Del Rio? Crap, I thought it was Santino!
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Post by Widow's Peak on Jan 16, 2013 1:11:38 GMT -5
There are a lot of girls over the years who you could attach the "only in it for the money" label to, but I don't think Eve is one of them. The girl worked her ass off to get better, and the quality of Diva matches will certainly suffer now that she's gone. And this is coming from someone who took a long time to warm up to her.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 1:14:08 GMT -5
There are a lot of girls over the years who you could attach the "only in it for the money" label to, but I don't think Eve is one of them. The girl worked her ass off to get better, and the quality of Diva matches will certainly suffer now that she's gone. And this is coming from someone who took a long time to warm up to her. Nah you're right, she was never in it for the money. That's been part of my argument the whole time. She's always had a massive amount of money around her. Like I said, if WWE didn't use her in a way that she deemed suitable she basically could leave at will. They couldn't control her with money the way that they could control the average worker.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 2:40:01 GMT -5
So basically, she didn't have as much reason to put up with their bullshit. I hope I'm not interpreting that wrong, because seriously I don't want you to have to explain yourself for the millionth time haha
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Post by corndog on Jan 16, 2013 3:02:21 GMT -5
There are a lot of girls over the years who you could attach the "only in it for the money" label to, but I don't think Eve is one of them. The girl worked her ass off to get better, and the quality of Diva matches will certainly suffer now that she's gone. And this is coming from someone who took a long time to warm up to her. I agree for the most part and I am pretty much in the same boat. She took a while for me to warm up to, but after her heel turn she really found her character and her in ring work has been pretty solid for the last few years. Definitely one of the best performers in and out of the ring in this current group. As far as the girls that are "in it for the money", I think it's more for the exposure to advance their careers outside of the WWE. Nonetheless, she will be missed, although I will be interested to see who gets her spot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 10:00:44 GMT -5
So basically, she didn't have as much reason to put up with their bulls***. I hope I'm not interpreting that wrong, because seriously I don't want you to have to explain yourself for the millionth time haha Exactly! Thank you! Eve is unique from other performers for not having any "reason to put up with their bullshit" from the day they signed her, and that's why from a business standpoint, signing her wasn't a wise decision. One thing people need to keep in mind about Eve is that she spent the majority of her screentime in WWE getting booked visibly or being pushed. That's basically her from 2010 on, and back in 2009 she was getting good screentime and a high proportion of wins compared to most of the other women. They put a lot of time and effort into someone who only stuck around as a wrestler for four years before choosing to leave. Now, she put someone over when she left, which is great, and I respect her tons for doing that on her way out. I wish more people would do that. But if I were WWE, I wouldn't gamble on someone like that when I can get a wrestler who will much more gladly accept your money.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 16, 2013 10:09:46 GMT -5
Sometimes the Bearded Lady no longer wants to be a freak and rather live like a normal person.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Jan 16, 2013 10:23:59 GMT -5
So basically, she didn't have as much reason to put up with their bulls***. I hope I'm not interpreting that wrong, because seriously I don't want you to have to explain yourself for the millionth time haha Exactly! Thank you! Eve is unique from other performers for not having any "reason to put up with their bulls***" from the day they signed her, and that's why from a business standpoint, signing her wasn't a wise decision. One thing people need to keep in mind about Eve is that she spent the majority of her screentime in WWE getting booked visibly or being pushed. That's basically her from 2010 on, and back in 2009 she was getting good screentime and a high proportion of wins compared to most of the other women. They put a lot of time and effort into someone who only stuck around as a wrestler for four years before choosing to leave. Now, she put someone over when she left, which is great, and I respect her tons for doing that on her way out. I wish more people would do that. But if I were WWE, I wouldn't gamble on someone like that when I can get a wrestler who will much more gladly accept your money. So basically, you only want WWE to hire women with no other discernible employment skills who are so ugly they could never land a husband? Snark aside, women who are desperate for a job in WWE and have no ambitions of doing anything else with their life are in a very tiny group. And even then, there's no guarantee that they wont get burned out, or want to start a family, or succumb to injuries, or the myriad of other reasons why careers in wrestling end.
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Post by King Boo on Jan 16, 2013 13:56:15 GMT -5
Khali, it sounds like you are more or less saying that since Eve is engaged to a Gracie, and he has a lot of money, that she shouldn't have been afforded an opportunity to run with the ball in her own profession. So basically, any woman who happens to be romantically involved with someone who is of means shouldn't be allowed to climb a ladder based simply on that, despite how hard they may work or how much they love what they do.
I take umbrage with that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 14:12:49 GMT -5
Khali, it sounds like you are more or less saying that since Eve is engaged to a Gracie, and he has a lot of money, that she shouldn't have been afforded an opportunity to run with the ball in her own profession. So basically, any woman who happens to be romantically involved with someone who is of means shouldn't be allowed to climb a ladder based simply on that, despite how hard they may work or how much they love what they do. I take umbrage with that. Saying "any woman" makes it sound sexist. I actually don't care what the person's sex is, if I were in WWE's shoes I would have much rather hired someone who's willing to bust their ass in the indies for little to no money than to hire someone whose extended family is exceedingly wealthy and doesn't need my money, the one little bit of leverage that I could have over them. And to be fair, while Eve clearly loves wrestling and put in a lot of work to improve, when you first bring someone in, you can't be sure that's the mindset that they're going to have, especially when they come from a talent search that has little or nothing to do with wrestling. When you bring in someone whose dedication is an unknown quantity, better they be someone who's bound to your purse than someone who has very little need of the money that you're offering.
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PKO
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Post by PKO on Jan 16, 2013 14:14:28 GMT -5
This has turned into a weird thread. That YouTube thankyou message was very sweet and Eve should be proud of herself for the hard work she's done over the years. Not just when it comes to wrestling, she's probably in the top 5 when it comes to all the promotional work she's done the past few years. That's a hell of a work schedule on top of the demands of an every day Superstar/Diva. Why does everyone think Chyna was fired due to drugs? We already established that Vince fired her pretty much immediately after she found out HHH was bonking Nipple H No, Chyna was released because her ego got out of control and she was a bit of a headcase. She was demanding to only wrestle against men, and she wanted a guaranteed WWE title program. That was all over the news online when she left WWE. I think somewhere between the two of you is correct.
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Post by Miss_Carol on Jan 16, 2013 14:16:32 GMT -5
And Rosa Mendes outlasts another one.
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Post by King Boo on Jan 16, 2013 14:19:57 GMT -5
Khali, it sounds like you are more or less saying that since Eve is engaged to a Gracie, and he has a lot of money, that she shouldn't have been afforded an opportunity to run with the ball in her own profession. So basically, any woman who happens to be romantically involved with someone who is of means shouldn't be allowed to climb a ladder based simply on that, despite how hard they may work or how much they love what they do. I take umbrage with that. Saying "any woman" makes it sound sexist. I actually don't care what the person's sex is, if I were in WWE's shoes I would have much rather hired someone who's willing to bust their ass in the indies for little to no money than to hire someone whose extended family is exceedingly wealthy and doesn't need my money, the one little bit of leverage that I could have over them. And to be fair, while Eve clearly loves wrestling and put in a lot of work to improve, when you first bring someone in, you can't be sure that's the mindset that they're going to have, especially when they come from a talent search that has little or nothing to do with wrestling. When you bring in someone whose dedication is an unknown quantity, better they be someone who's bound to your purse than someone who has very little need of the money that you're offering. Okay, fine. Any person. I still take umbrage with that. It shouldn't be held against someone that they're involved with another person who's wealthy. You're essentially saying that someone who is with a rich person shouldn't be given a chance based upon the size of the bank account of who they love, as opposed to being given a chance based on their effort and ability. I find holding someone down or back based solely on the wealth of another (or their own, frankly) to be wrong and insulting.
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Post by Banjo Is Broken on Jan 16, 2013 14:41:37 GMT -5
Farewell, my gorgeous queen Diva. You were always my favorite, even when you were just "that Eve chick" competing in the Diva search. And when you were on Smackdown interviewing various superstars. And when you finally got your chance to show off your stuff in the ring, ever since then you have improved and shown that you really wanted to be there entertaining the audience. When you finally became Divas champ and so many were hesitant to accept you as their champion, I was more than willing to let you lead the Divas division because I knew you were everything they needed and more as a champion. When you were face, I loved you, when you were heel, I loved you more. You were great as a plucky babyface ready to go out and prove herself to the other Divas, and even greater as a manipulative, evil goddess just trying to get ahead in the business. I feel that you had so much more to offer the Divas division. There was still time. You are a multiple time champion, but you were definitely the most talented Diva on the roster when you decided to walk away and pursue other things in your life. I'm sad to see you go, but I'm happy that you went out on top of your game and can still do all the things you want to do. I will miss you more than any other Diva that has come and gone. You will always be the most beautiful Ninja/Princess/Superhero/Disco Queen/Goddess that the WWE has ever known. Good night, sweet Eve.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jan 16, 2013 14:43:22 GMT -5
I'll miss Eve. Classy looking lady.
Though, on the plus side, I'd laugh and then applaud if they mysteriously rehired Brooke Adams.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jan 16, 2013 15:06:30 GMT -5
Just occurred to me: For what it's worth, Layla's the longest employed and currently only WWE employed Diva Search winner or contestant.
...yay?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 15:13:22 GMT -5
I didn't really care to much for Eve but she was arguably the most talented diva when she left and the past year or two or so. The stories of her being professional, nice, and hard working is cool. Happy retirement Eve. I just hope she doesn't have any problems giving birth if she decides on having kids like most retired divas had.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 15:16:59 GMT -5
Saying "any woman" makes it sound sexist. I actually don't care what the person's sex is, if I were in WWE's shoes I would have much rather hired someone who's willing to bust their ass in the indies for little to no money than to hire someone whose extended family is exceedingly wealthy and doesn't need my money, the one little bit of leverage that I could have over them. And to be fair, while Eve clearly loves wrestling and put in a lot of work to improve, when you first bring someone in, you can't be sure that's the mindset that they're going to have, especially when they come from a talent search that has little or nothing to do with wrestling. When you bring in someone whose dedication is an unknown quantity, better they be someone who's bound to your purse than someone who has very little need of the money that you're offering. Okay, fine. Any person. I still take umbrage with that. It shouldn't be held against someone that they're involved with another person who's wealthy. You're essentially saying that someone who is with a rich person shouldn't be given a chance based upon the size of the bank account of who they love, as opposed to being given a chance based on their effort and ability. I find holding someone down or back based solely on the wealth of another (or their own, frankly) to be wrong and insulting. And this whole time I've been speaking that if I were in charge of a company whose central goal is to make money, I would rather have loyal workers than ones whose loyalty is harder to gain. It's that simple.
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