|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 26, 2013 14:47:24 GMT -5
It's a fun read, but blatantly biased, for all the reasons mentioned.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Jan 26, 2013 14:47:46 GMT -5
The book is absolute garbage "authored" by a couple of clowns who couldn't write a parking ticket.
The changing of facts to fit their thesis -- that WCW was horribly booked at every turn, that no angle made sense, that viewers were put off by this AT THE TIME WCW IS KILLING WWF in the ratings -- is ridiculous. At the exact same times that they point out WCW continuity flaws and bad booking, WWF was doing the same and worse, is glossed over.
Worst wrestling book ever IMO.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 14:52:04 GMT -5
Even things that were kayfabed were reported as real in the book. Yeah, like how they took Sid's "winning streak" in 1999 seriously. Anyone who actually watched the show knew that Sid wasn't really undefeated, and was making up bogus victories to dig at Goldberg, yet somehow RD and Bryan interpreted that as WCW actually promoting Sid to be undefeated. They also seemed to think 3 Count saying "Our first album went platnium, and our next is going to go gold!" was not said completely on purpose. If they ever saw "Dumb and Dumber" their heads would explode.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 14:54:47 GMT -5
To me it was kind of a cash grab to capitalize on a lot of the anti-WCW sentiment after the success of the Wrestlecrap book.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Jan 26, 2013 14:59:37 GMT -5
Hogan no-sold Vader's powerbomb the very first time he took it (at the January 1995 Clash). Hogan blasted Vader with several punches, which Vader also no sold. Then Vader hit the powerbomb on Hogan, which made Hogan writhe on the mat for about 15 seconds. The way the book sells it, is that Hogan shot right back up...didn't even bother to milk it at all, WHICH he does. Hogan only gets back up once Vader's back is turned. And again, how did he do it? HE HULKED UP.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 15:00:01 GMT -5
The book is absolute garbage "authored" by a couple of clowns who couldn't write a parking ticket. The changing of facts to fit their thesis -- that WCW was horribly booked at every turn, that no angle made sense, that viewers were put off by this AT THE TIME WCW IS KILLING WWF in the ratings -- is ridiculous. At the exact same times that they point out WCW continuity flaws and bad booking, WWF was doing the same and worse, is glossed over. Worst wrestling book ever IMO. That's not exactly the case. They were saying that while they were making money in 1996-98, there were mistakes made. Hogan said that himself on his 2002 DVD. And they did mention the WWF's flaws. In the 1999 chapter, they mentioned that the WWF was getting high ratings and making lots of money despite huge plotholes and bad writing in some angles.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 15:07:07 GMT -5
Hogan no-sold Vader's powerbomb the very first time he took it (at the January 1995 Clash). Hogan blasted Vader with several punches, which Vader also no sold. Then Vader hit the powerbomb on Hogan, which made Hogan writhe on the mat for about 15 seconds. The way the book sells it, is that Hogan shot right back up...didn't even bother to milk it at all, WHICH he does. Hogan only gets back up once Vader's back is turned. And again, how did he do it? HE HULKED UP. Yeah, if that's the case, they'd have been better off saying it would have better to save the Hulk Up for the actual match. In their defense, that's how the segment was described long before the book. I even remember it that way. Maybe because that was the same night Savage hit Hogan with the top rope elbow to revive him.
|
|
|
Post by AnActualBear on Jan 26, 2013 15:07:33 GMT -5
The changing of facts to fit their thesis -- that WCW was horribly booked at every turn, that no angle made sense, that viewers were put off by this AT THE TIME WCW IS KILLING WWF in the ratings -- is ridiculous. At the exact same times that they point out WCW continuity flaws and bad booking, WWF was doing the same and worse, is glossed over. Worst wrestling book ever IMO. Firstly, you obviously haven't read Diana Hart's book if you think this is the worst. Secondly, the book is called "The Death of WCW". Obviously they aren't going to focus on the WWF that much. Thirdly, they rightly state the product started to suck around late '97- early '98, but that it took a while for it to take effect. This is true of every promotion that went from a massive high to a huge low. It's very hard to screw up when wrestling is hot, since people will overlook bad booking. Eventually though, it will lead to people giving up. It isn't a coincidence that they lost their first ratings battle in literally years in 1998. Looking at it logically, you have to believe either WCW fans tuned out, or more people started watching WWF. If WCW was such a good product, why were people tuning out? Also, whether WWF sucked at the same time or not is irrelevant, since the book is examining WCW's rise and fall. Also I laughed so hard at the guy who recommended you read Bischoff's book for the true story. That book is full of complete and utter bullshit. I'm not saying Death of WCW is 100% true, because it isn't. But come on now, recommending Bischoff's book with a straight face?
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Jan 26, 2013 15:13:21 GMT -5
Yeah, Vader wasn't buried, but man was that whole sequence of PPVs booked like shit.
I actually glossed through the matches yesterday after reading this, and that trilogy was just constant no-selling. WCW Hogan must have been a real tough guy and Vader must be impervious to legdrops. He took like 26 of them in the cage match and still got up to challenge Hogan on top of the cage.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Jan 26, 2013 15:13:44 GMT -5
Yeah, if that's the case, they'd have been better off saying it would have better to save the Hulk Up for the actual match. In their defense, that's how the segment was descibed long before the book. I even remember it that way. Maybe because that was the same night Savage hit Hogan with the top rope elbow to revive him. Exactly. They paint the scenario that Hogan did it to bury Vader. Look, if Hogan had that power, he could have very well beaten Vader in a squash feud, but he didn't. Vader was allowed to look very good throughout the entire feud. And yes, there was stuff that made absolutely no sense like Hogan beating Vader by dragging Flair (who wasn't in the match) to all 4 corners...but does that make Vader look bad? Hardly. Hogan was champion and they weren't going to put the belt on Vader, and Vader's very next feud he was booked as a monster again, winning handicapped matches and such. If he didn't injure himself and get into the Orndorff fight, he would have very likely had another run on top. So in the end kiddies; Vader screwed Vader.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Jan 26, 2013 15:19:50 GMT -5
I've been meaning to go back and watch a lot of stuff from the Hogan vs. Vader feud, to see if it was as backbreaking for Vader as most people say.
I remember that Vader was supposed to be on Hogan's War Games team as an "uneasy ally", up against the Dungeon of Doom, I think. Makes me wonder where that might've gone, or how WCW would've possibly handled a babyface Vader.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Jan 26, 2013 15:30:45 GMT -5
I've been meaning to go back and watch a lot of stuff from the Hogan vs. Vader feud, to see if it was as backbreaking for Vader as most people say. I remember that Vader was supposed to be on Hogan's War Games team as an "uneasy ally", up against the Dungeon of Doom, I think. Makes me wonder where that might've gone, or how WCW would've possibly handled a babyface Vader. It would have been very interesting. Hogan's team was already stacked with Savage and Sting, and Vader was much more menacing than Luger at the time. It didn't help that the Dungeon of Doom was a bunch of jabronis. I think Vader would have been a very good WCW face. It's weird too, because when Vader debuted in the WWF, even at the time, I was filled with apathy. Vader always felt like the right fit in WCW, and no matter how much good booking he could have had in WWF, I just couldn't care less. Strangely enough, I think a lot of that had to do with Cornette being his manager. It almost bogged down his character, as strange as that sounds.
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Jan 26, 2013 15:43:26 GMT -5
I've been meaning to go back and watch a lot of stuff from the Hogan vs. Vader feud, to see if it was as backbreaking for Vader as most people say. I remember that Vader was supposed to be on Hogan's War Games team as an "uneasy ally", up against the Dungeon of Doom, I think. Makes me wonder where that might've gone, or how WCW would've possibly handled a babyface Vader. It would have been very interesting. Hogan's team was already stacked with Savage and Sting, and Vader was much more menacing than Luger at the time. It didn't help that the Dungeon of Doom was a bunch of jabronis. I think Vader would have been a very good WCW face. It's weird too, because when Vader debuted in the WWF, even at the time, I was filled with apathy. Vader always felt like the right fit in WCW, and no matter how much good booking he could have had in WWF, I just couldn't care less. Strangely enough, I think a lot of that had to do with Cornette being his manager. It almost bogged down his character, as strange as that sounds. I think they saw Vader with Harley Race and decided he needed a manager. But the point is that Harley Race was like a "trainer". Even when they had him with Luger. He was a badass motherf***er and he imparted that to other badass motherf***ers. Cornette.... not so much. As for Vader in WCW, they probably would have done something good with the Giant, and that's about as far as he can go. The nWo angle would have ruined him one way or another, I mean, it more or less ruined the Giant in WCW when they couldn't figure out how to use him, I don't see why Vader would be any different. If he was going up against the nWo, he'd have to be booked weaker. If he was going to be booked strong, he'd have to be in the nWo, and would just be the 5th banana or so, until they decided to book him weak, which means they'd beat him out like they did the Giant.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Jan 26, 2013 15:51:54 GMT -5
I think they saw Vader with Harley Race and decided he needed a manager. But the point is that Harley Race was like a "trainer". Even when they had him with Luger. He was a badass motherf***er and he imparted that to other badass motherf***ers. Cornette.... not so much. As for Vader in WCW, they probably would have done something good with the Giant, and that's about as far as he can go. The nWo angle would have ruined him one way or another, I mean, it more or less ruined the Giant in WCW when they couldn't figure out how to use him, I don't see why Vader would be any different. If he was going up against the nWo, he'd have to be booked weaker. If he was going to be booked strong, he'd have to be in the nWo, and would just be the 5th banana or so, until they decided to book him weak, which means they'd beat him out like they did the Giant. Yeah, I think that's it. I love Cornette, but it almost impaired Vader in my eyes, he looked more like a parody of a badass as opposed to what he was supposed to be. Yeah, I don't see Vader around for the long haul in WCW, but at least until Starcade '97. He wouldn't have worked in the nWo, but as an aggressor against the group, it could have been alright. But it would have died down by 1998, if they continued things the way they actually did. The problem with big domineering badasses is how one dimensional the gimmick is. And while you could continually reshape Vader to fit the program they're selling, I doubt by 1998 the fans would have cared seeing how rampant the nWo had become. You could apply the same to Vader in WWF, he doesn't have the ability to continue to adapt to the program in the same way Kane has been able to. And that's why I've never bought into the idea that Vader was booked/treated poorly. A lot of the faults of one's own career have to fall on his shoulders in that regard. I like the guy, but he's lucky to have the career that he had.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Jan 26, 2013 16:20:54 GMT -5
Vader vs the Giant would have given them both something to do
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Jan 26, 2013 16:21:49 GMT -5
Yeah, like how they took Sid's "winning streak" in 1999 seriously. Anyone who actually watched the show knew that Sid wasn't really undefeated, and was making up bogus victories to dig at Goldberg, yet somehow RD and Bryan interpreted that as WCW actually promoting Sid to be undefeated. They also seemed to think 3 Count saying "Our first album went platnium, and our next is going to go gold!" was not said completely on purpose. If they ever saw "Dumb and Dumber" their heads would explode. I think their logic is basically that making your stars look like brain dead idiots is a bad idea.
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Jan 26, 2013 16:36:25 GMT -5
I'm in a rush, but really the reason WCW doesn't exist, far past "they didn't push this guy" or "this booking was awful" (and they didn't, and it was).
It was a bad business. Bottom line. Treated the promotion more like a TV show than an actual wrestling promotion. $20 to go to Nitro, lower bowl. I went to Starrcade '97, this is the biggest show they've done, the most certain house they'll ever get. I sat 3rd row riser, hard camera side. $80. This is why.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 16:53:55 GMT -5
They also seemed to think 3 Count saying "Our first album went platnium, and our next is going to go gold!" was not said completely on purpose. If they ever saw "Dumb and Dumber" their heads would explode. I think their logic is basically that making your stars look like brain dead idiots is a bad idea. 3 Count was a low-card act whose whole gimmick was meant to get people laughing at them. Very different from portraying main eventers as dumb. And it seemed to be pointed out as an example of WCW stupidity rather than something said on purpose for comedy.
|
|
Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 16,502
|
Post by Mac on Jan 26, 2013 23:30:12 GMT -5
It seems like they had a story and whben they read through it WCW didnt look bad enough so they needed to omit facts and add in some of their own opinions and use them AS facts. It's a fun rwad but doesnt have much basis in reality, so that takes away from a good amount of the enjoyment factor.
|
|
|
Post by Slingshot Suplay on Jan 26, 2013 23:41:56 GMT -5
I think this book is the source of many internet "facts" about the death of wcw.
|
|