Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
Posts: 6,321
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Post by Sam Punk on Jan 20, 2013 12:43:15 GMT -5
Yeah because jobbing to one of the hottest baby faces in all of wrestling is a burial... I guess that means that DDP was never buried in WWE then, since he was jobbing to 'Taker and 'Taker was a hot babyface. Don't forget him jobbing to Sara.
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Post by notasmark on Jan 20, 2013 13:36:36 GMT -5
I guess that means that DDP was never buried in WWE then, since he was jobbing to 'Taker and 'Taker was a hot babyface. Don't forget him jobbing to Sara. If it's the one I'm thinking of didn't Taker run interference and completely kill Page before Sara got the victory? People need to have a check list for guys who got buried Did said talent ever recover from "burial"? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Did said talent still receive a push during their "burial" phase? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Is said talent still on good terms with company that "buried" him? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Did said talent talent recover from losing multiple matches during "burial" phase? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried People like CM Punk or DDP were not buried. They both recovered and both went on to win belts. A burial is when you completely kill someones momentum and popularity. It's not a common thing hence the struggle to find actual good examples in this thread but every internet mark that knows the term throws it around every time someone looks bad whether it's in story line or what they see as a bad booking decision (Aka a loss) Hell, It could be a promotion trying to attempt something new and it just doesn't work out (DDP is a good example) that does not mean they were buried. Just that their gimmick wasn't over.
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Jan 20, 2013 14:09:03 GMT -5
Don't forget him jobbing to Sara. If it's the one I'm thinking of didn't Taker run interference and completely kill Page before Sara got the victory? People need to have a check list for guys who got buried Did said talent ever recover from "burial"? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Did said talent still receive a push during their "burial" phase? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Is said talent still on good terms with company that "buried" him? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Did said talent talent recover from losing multiple matches during "burial" phase? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried People like CM Punk or DDP were not buried. They both recovered and both went on to win belts. A burial is when you completely kill someones momentum and popularity. It's not a common thing hence the struggle to find actual good examples in this thread but every internet mark that knows the term throws it around every time someone looks bad whether it's in story line or what they see as a bad booking decision (Aka a loss) Hell, It could be a promotion trying to attempt something new and it just doesn't work out (DDP is a good example) that does not mean they were buried. Just that their gimmick wasn't over. Making Page the stalker thing and having him go up against the Undertaker wasn't WWE trying something new that just didn't work. It was WWE actively trying to make Page look pathetic. YouTube his first match with 'Taker and watch it. I think Page gets one punch in at the start, and then 'Taker just proceeds to beat the ever-loving shit out of him without Page managing any more offense. And yeah, Taker did beat up Page again before Sara pinned him, but that doesn't change the fact that WWE was sending a message: "Hey WCW fans, you see this guy who was one of the faces of WCW? Look at how much of a wimp he is compared to a WWE guy!" YouTube the promo Page cut when he revealed himself as the stalker and explained his reasons. The crowd comes f***ing unglued when they see that it's him. DDP was over, fans of WWE took him seriously as a main eventer, as a guy who might be able to beat Rocky or Stone Cold or Angle or Taker...and by the end of that program, they weren't able to take him seriously as a threat to anybody. I don't buy the argument that it isn't a burial if the company tries to build you back up later. That's like saying "I broke this lamp, but then I fixed it, so therefore it was never broken." The fact that they eventually put the European Championship on DDP and let him beat Christian for it doesn't mean that he was never buried in the first place.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 20, 2013 15:19:54 GMT -5
If it's the one I'm thinking of didn't Taker run interference and completely kill Page before Sara got the victory? People need to have a check list for guys who got buried Did said talent ever recover from "burial"? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Did said talent still receive a push during their "burial" phase? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Is said talent still on good terms with company that "buried" him? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried Did said talent talent recover from losing multiple matches during "burial" phase? If the answer is yes, they weren't buried People like CM Punk or DDP were not buried. They both recovered and both went on to win belts. A burial is when you completely kill someones momentum and popularity. It's not a common thing hence the struggle to find actual good examples in this thread but every internet mark that knows the term throws it around every time someone looks bad whether it's in story line or what they see as a bad booking decision (Aka a loss) Hell, It could be a promotion trying to attempt something new and it just doesn't work out (DDP is a good example) that does not mean they were buried. Just that their gimmick wasn't over. Making Page the stalker thing and having him go up against the Undertaker wasn't WWE trying something new that just didn't work. It was WWE actively trying to make Page look pathetic. YouTube his first match with 'Taker and watch it. I think Page gets one punch in at the start, and then 'Taker just proceeds to beat the ever-loving s*** out of him without Page managing any more offense. And yeah, Taker did beat up Page again before Sara pinned him, but that doesn't change the fact that WWE was sending a message: "Hey WCW fans, you see this guy who was one of the faces of WCW? Look at how much of a wimp he is compared to a WWE guy!" YouTube the promo Page cut when he revealed himself as the stalker and explained his reasons. The crowd comes f***ing unglued when they see that it's him. DDP was over, fans of WWE took him seriously as a main eventer, as a guy who might be able to beat Rocky or Stone Cold or Angle or Taker...and by the end of that program, they weren't able to take him seriously as a threat to anybody. I don't buy the argument that it isn't a burial if the company tries to build you back up later. That's like saying "I broke this lamp, but then I fixed it, so therefore it was never broken." The fact that they eventually put the European Championship on DDP and let him beat Christian for it doesn't mean that he was never buried in the first place. Pretty much, I don't even know why this was an argument. DDP was cheered huge in WWE's ultimate home turf of Madison Square Garden. Sure the more 'smarky' of fans are from the area but that in terms of how the company judged you at the time was huge. Considering the dude was huge already from WCW closing down, it would have made sense to do something more interesting with him as in nothing to do with stalking the Undertaker's wife when WCW fans coming in most likely knew he was ALREADY MARRIED BY THAT TIME TO SOMEONE THEY SAW ON TV!
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bob
Backup Wench
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 80,592
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Post by bob on Jan 20, 2013 17:29:44 GMT -5
Chavo losing repeatedly to Hornswoggle Skip losing to Horowitz repeatedly DDP losing to Sara Taker Zack Ryder
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jan 20, 2013 19:21:41 GMT -5
Just because someone recovers doesn't mean its not a burial.
Many people survive burials. Dusty Rhodes is probably the best example. Polka dots and man servant Virgil, should be more than a hint how Vince felt about Dusty at first. Probably also how his son became a drag queen that he owned also.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 22:41:47 GMT -5
The Ultimate Warrior. Not in booking, but how many other Superstars had a WWE DVD released for the sole purpose of cutting his legacy down. This, for certain. Burial isn't making someone look bad by losing to a face, even when they get humiliated. That's what heels are supposed to do. Chavo wasn't buried with Hornswoggle, he was playing the Wile E. Coyote-type foil with one of the most over faces on the roster. I'm willing to bet there are litererally hundreds of guys that would have given their eye teeth for that spot. Burial is when you make someone look like an utter non-entity. This is either done by no-selling, undermining someone's importance, or drawing attention to something that shouldn't be pointed out. The no-selling part is NOT Warrior no-selling a pedigree or Hogan no-selling a Vader bomb. That's what "superhero" faces do; it's what's supposed to happen. You could argue it's the opposite of a burial, because those guys got to work with Hogan and Warrior. When you deliberately try to make the other guy look bad, like the Great Antonio tried to do with Antonio Inoki, that's a burial (although that might not be the best example, because it didn't work out for Antonio). A burial is what WWE does to people they don't like at the moment, because when you control history, you can figuratively "bury" individuals. When you act like Randy Savage didn't exist, that's a burial. Now that Savage does exist to WWE, they are busy burying Hulk Hogan's accomplishments. When you say Warrior sucked and couldn't work, that's a burial.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Jan 20, 2013 22:51:34 GMT -5
In iwc language, being buried is any time A) their favourite wrestler loses a match, even if it makes sense. B) any wrestler loses to Triple H. this
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jan 20, 2013 23:23:24 GMT -5
I think traditionally, to be buried, you have to be pushed beforehand. In 1996, Vader made a pretty big impact. He was debuted as a destructive monster in the Royal Rumble, took out WWF President Gorilla Monsoon and Yokozuna, had a pinfall victory over Shawn Michaels, and then at Summerslam, his push went downhill. I think what stemmed from it was that incident in Kuwait and also not bathing(he said it was a Japanese tradition to not wash your attire for good luck). Yokozuna can also follow that example. In the end, when Vader took him out, he needed to be carried, not on a stretcher, but A FORKLIFT and lost to a up-and-coming "Stone Cold" Steve Austin on the Summerslam pre-show in about a minute when he broke the ropes. T hink about it. The same man who headlined a Wrestlemania and won the WWF championship on that show, and effectively ended Hulk-a-Mania became a curtain jerker. If thats not a burial, I don't know what is. I think this needs to be echoed, because this is probably one of the best examples you could come by. The company that had trusted him to be such a prime leader only 3 years prior, for him to become such a liability for them, that they'd rather just make him out to be a guy who can't even get a decent program with anyone tells you that they were either punishing him or wanted him gone, or both. A lot of so called "burials" that I look for nowadays are the ones where the guy isn't even protected on commentary. When the guys who are the "voice" for the home-watching audience are goofing on you, as if you're a fluke aka; Zack Ryder...then you know they've set out to try to turn the fans on you. Again, anymore...a lot of times, the fans may stick with a wrestler no matter if he wins or loses, but if the commentators are harping on how bad he is week after week, you'll probably lose hope in the guy and move on. That's why when people said the Miz was being "buried", I laughed, since he's easily one of the most protected guys on commentary.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 21, 2013 3:16:46 GMT -5
Just because someone recovers doesn't mean its not a burial. Many people survive burials. Dusty Rhodes is probably the best example. Polka dots and man servant Virgil, should be more than a hint how Vince felt about Dusty at first. Probably also how his son became a drag queen that he owned also. The polka dots, I am almost positive Dusty has admitted to choosing himself.
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Marty McFry
Don Corleone
"She was mine before she was yours.... Wooooo"
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Post by Marty McFry on Jan 21, 2013 14:28:29 GMT -5
Most, if not all of the examples given are actually people being held back as opposed to buried IMO.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 21, 2013 15:34:12 GMT -5
Just because someone recovers doesn't mean its not a burial. Many people survive burials. Dusty Rhodes is probably the best example. Polka dots and man servant Virgil, should be more than a hint how Vince felt about Dusty at first. Probably also how his son became a drag queen that he owned also. Goldust was meant to be HUGE. You can't say they weren't trying to create a huge star at first, with that character. More generally, I don't know why people even talk about burying anymore. It's just everyone with different definitions of what the term means trying to say that their definition is right.
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Post by Stu on Jan 21, 2013 16:23:52 GMT -5
I don't throw around the term a lot, but the first example for me that comes to mind is The Public Enemy during their WWF run in 1999. This is a really good example, although the argument could me made it was part of an angle. The announcers constantly pointed out they were disliked by everyone because of "where they used to work," that being WCW and ECW. That said, I couldn't think of any moment PE was made to look good. Hell, in their only feud (with the Brood), they came out as losers. Still, I never heard any details on what led to their departure. Their time with the WWF was so short, I don't know if they just never had the chance to complete any storylines or if they actually left because of mistreatment. Anyway, I'm still not convinced everyone here is clear on the definition of a burial. Yes, it's clear that there needs to be intended malice and the point is to purposely make someone look bad to the point they come off as useless. But sometimes there's a purpose. Let's take the Yokozuna example. The poster explained Yoko was a major player, only to lose his matches and have to be removed on a forklift before losing to Austin in quick fashion. But two things to consider: 1: Yoko was on his way out (in part because he wasn't losing weight and was becoming a legitimate liability from a legal standpoint). 2: He wasn't just losing to random guys; he was losing to Austin and Vader, who were being built up as the next big things. Getting destroyed only helped Austin and Vader look good (whereas the always-mentioned HHH/Londrick incident accomplished nothing). As for Shane Douglas, was he "buried" by the WWF or was he just buried by The Kliq? And even then, was someone purposely trying to make him look bad and run him out of the company? There are so many ifs, ands and buts that need to be identified before determining someone was buried. It's not always that cut and dry.
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Post by Kick Your Face on Jan 22, 2013 0:45:30 GMT -5
I don't think you could really count guys who already had their place in history (such as Dusty Rhodes and DDP's WWF runs and Mr. Perfect's last run) because their primes had already passed, and there was no way to get any bigger than they were before. The only way they could go was down.
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