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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 22, 2013 20:11:12 GMT -5
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Sicho100
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Post by Sicho100 on Jan 22, 2013 20:12:28 GMT -5
Cam Newton is a better passer than Tim Tebow. Newton set the rookie record for passing yards in a season. Tebow didn't even have a 50% completion percentage. Tebow is the run-first QB here. I never said Newton wasn't a better passer than Tebow. Tebow was an extremely one-dimensional player but he was able to make his carries without taking a ridiculous number of hits or throwing a swathe of interceptions. Newton is a better raw talent but he's also not bright enough to be a strong, reliable team leader or to have great adaptability as a player. Also worth noting is that while yes, Newton has an extreme amount of throwing yards, this is only natural when he's relied upon for a heavy amount of plays. He's rushed nearly as much as DeAngelo Williams has and that super-run heavy style does not suit a quarterback in the long term. They take too many hits and decay too quickly in that style. What Denver did was more conservative, and it's been aped in that pick-and-choose-the-run manner with Kaepernick and Wilson. They use their running backs more liberally and stay in the pocket more frequently. Which is more along the lines of what Denver did with Tebow. Only semi-related, but there's one other thing worth taking a look at when analyzing the success of a quarterback and their stats, it is worth looking at who they play against. Newton's stats are deceptive for the same reason the Falcons' wins were deceptive: they play against bad defenses. The NFC South is quite possibly the worst division in the whole NFL in terms of defense and six of Carolina's games each year are against the other three NFC South teams. When Carolina played against good, even average defensive teams (Seattle, Denver, Chicago, etc.) Newton's success was greatly reduced. As I don't think Tim Tebow can qualify as a genius on the football field after this. Here's a rule of thumb for all NFL players - Don't run 30 yards backwards. It won't end up well. (I'm looking at you, Devin Hester.) And, this "Tebow is a leader" thing needed to die a year ago. As soon as he was traded, what was the reaction of the Broncos players? "Thank God he's gone, he f***ing sucks." If he was seriously able to unite and lead the Broncos locker room, I doubt they would have been to ecstatic to see him go. And, to say Newton has inflated stats for playing against poor teams, while exempting Tebow is absurd. Tebow won 1 game against a team above .500 last year, and that was against a battered Steelers team. And, much of Tebow's "successes" were in spite of him, not because of him. The Denver defense and running game were able to keep the Broncos in the game while Tebow was busy being the worst QB in the league (Seriously, even Blaine Gabbert completed 50% of his passes. And everyone agrees that he sucks.) If any NFL exec was seriously looking at the draft and saying "Maybe we can get the next Tebow!" then they needed to be fired years ago because they are so unbelievably incompetent at their job that they have to be "Major League"-esque sabotaging their franchise.
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Jan 22, 2013 20:16:17 GMT -5
simply cannot decide who i want to win this, as both teams are pretty high up for me ..... so i'm gonna be a complete neutral for it!!! so pleased that the patriots didn't win through
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Post by dlg3000 on Jan 22, 2013 20:41:37 GMT -5
Personally I watch football because I love the game and really have no attachment to any team. But it would be nice for either of those teams to win and the big story would be the icing on the cake of Ray Lewis provided the Ravens win the Super Bowl.
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Demented
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Post by Demented on Jan 22, 2013 21:09:54 GMT -5
Due to injury, Von Miller will not be going to the Pro Bowl. In his place... Chiefs very own Justin Houston.
6 Pro Bowlers from a 2-14 team. ;D
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Post by Error on Jan 22, 2013 21:37:58 GMT -5
Hey Jay Ratliff, a DUI after everything the Cowboys went through just a month or so ago because of one? Just please kindly screw off.
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Post by Kev The Omniscient on Jan 22, 2013 21:59:09 GMT -5
Personally I watch football because I love the game and really have no attachment to any team. But it would be nice for either of those teams to win and the big story would be the icing on the cake of Ray Lewis provided the Ravens win the Super Bowl. Even though I do have a certain team that I root for every week (Pats), I gotta say that I feel like I have a better time watching games with other teams. It's nice to just sit and watch the game with no emotional attachment. I'm not as pissed off, not swearing, it's just nice. So, yeah, yeah, Pats didn't win (can't win 'em all), I'm still very much looking forward to this game.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 22, 2013 22:08:21 GMT -5
Newton had inflated stats because the lockout really f***ed over teams from being able to prepare their defenses. A lot of QB's had absolutely gaudy numbers at the start of the year, and those numbers came down when defenses had the time to gel. It takes longer for defenses to coalesce than offenses, so it's only logical that they'd be hurt more than training camp and preseason is practically cut out.
That said, Newton wasn't alone. Most good QB's had gaudy stats at the start of last season.
And I don't think there's much Tebow did to bring about the more college style offense in SF and Washington. Denver didn't really run a college style offense, it ran mostly the same run-heavy offense that they always ran until late game, when defenses were tired. Tebow just happened to be a good enough scrambler that he could pick up yards when the defense wasn't expecting it.
Jim Harbaugh ran that offense because that's the offense he had success in at Stanford, and he had a QB that could run it. Washington completely retooled their offense because they were getting a much more dynamic player and you build offenses when you get a player like that. But there have already been a lot of trends toward that before Tebow, even New England running a version of Oregon's offense.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jan 22, 2013 22:08:35 GMT -5
Panthers hired Ken Dorsey as QBs coach.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Jan 23, 2013 0:47:15 GMT -5
Newton had inflated stats because the lockout really f***ed over teams from being able to prepare their defenses. A lot of QB's had absolutely gaudy numbers at the start of the year, and those numbers came down when defenses had the time to gel. It takes longer for defenses to coalesce than offenses, so it's only logical that they'd be hurt more than training camp and preseason is practically cut out. That said, Newton wasn't alone. Most good QB's had gaudy stats at the start of last season. And I don't think there's much Tebow did to bring about the more college style offense in SF and Washington. Denver didn't really run a college style offense, it ran mostly the same run-heavy offense that they always ran until late game, when defenses were tired. Tebow just happened to be a good enough scrambler that he could pick up yards when the defense wasn't expecting it. Jim Harbaugh ran that offense because that's the offense he had success in at Stanford, and he had a QB that could run it. Washington completely retooled their offense because they were getting a much more dynamic player and you build offenses when you get a player like that. But there have already been a lot of trends toward that before Tebow, even New England running a version of Oregon's offense. Wasn't the Pats' current offense based on Urban Meyer's system? Both Belichick and McDaniels worked with Meyer. And the 2008 season came and went with the Wildcat.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 23, 2013 7:32:34 GMT -5
Good greif, what a mess this franchise is. Woddy Johnson is a liar, and though I'm not a 'Tebow guy', he's getting treated like dirt via these stories
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Steveweiser
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Post by Steveweiser on Jan 23, 2013 8:25:32 GMT -5
For the record it's not just the fans why I don't like the Patriots, although some of them don't help matters. Belichick is the NFL's Alex Ferguson, someone who thinks he's above the league, does not show class, and whines when things go against him. And it's also absurd just how protected Tom Brady is. Nothing against him personally, but the rate flags go flying whenever anyone goes five inches near him... jeez. Plus the whole Spygate thing. And they're "annoying good" like Manchester United are.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 10:00:17 GMT -5
The results sucked? Atlanta/New England would have been a terrible game. Pats would have mopped the floor with them. Especially since the Falcons would have had to start Luke McCown. Sunday night, Ravens and Pats. The Falcons and Niners played in the afternoon. But yeah, I agree with the part of the Falcons being in the Super Bowl, THAT would have also sucked. Scratch what I said. Brady is injured (apparently) which means Mallett would be starting as their quarterback. Wow, imagine Luke McCown or Ryan Mallett being a Superbowl-winning QB. It would have to be one of them. And that's a terrible thought.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 10:03:47 GMT -5
I never said Newton wasn't a better passer than Tebow. Tebow was an extremely one-dimensional player but he was able to make his carries without taking a ridiculous number of hits or throwing a swathe of interceptions. Newton is a better raw talent but he's also not bright enough to be a strong, reliable team leader or to have great adaptability as a player. Also worth noting is that while yes, Newton has an extreme amount of throwing yards, this is only natural when he's relied upon for a heavy amount of plays. He's rushed nearly as much as DeAngelo Williams has and that super-run heavy style does not suit a quarterback in the long term. They take too many hits and decay too quickly in that style. What Denver did was more conservative, and it's been aped in that pick-and-choose-the-run manner with Kaepernick and Wilson. They use their running backs more liberally and stay in the pocket more frequently. Which is more along the lines of what Denver did with Tebow. Only semi-related, but there's one other thing worth taking a look at when analyzing the success of a quarterback and their stats, it is worth looking at who they play against. Newton's stats are deceptive for the same reason the Falcons' wins were deceptive: they play against bad defenses. The NFC South is quite possibly the worst division in the whole NFL in terms of defense and six of Carolina's games each year are against the other three NFC South teams. When Carolina played against good, even average defensive teams (Seattle, Denver, Chicago, etc.) Newton's success was greatly reduced. As I don't think Tim Tebow can qualify as a genius on the football field after this. Here's a rule of thumb for all NFL players - Don't run 30 yards backwards. It won't end up well. (I'm looking at you, Devin Hester.) And, this "Tebow is a leader" thing needed to die a year ago. As soon as he was traded, what was the reaction of the Broncos players? "Thank God he's gone, he f***ing sucks." If he was seriously able to unite and lead the Broncos locker room, I doubt they would have been to ecstatic to see him go. And, to say Newton has inflated stats for playing against poor teams, while exempting Tebow is absurd. Tebow won 1 game against a team above .500 last year, and that was against a battered Steelers team. And, much of Tebow's "successes" were in spite of him, not because of him. The Denver defense and running game were able to keep the Broncos in the game while Tebow was busy being the worst QB in the league (Seriously, even Blaine Gabbert completed 50% of his passes. And everyone agrees that he sucks.) If any NFL exec was seriously looking at the draft and saying "Maybe we can get the next Tebow!" then they needed to be fired years ago because they are so unbelievably incompetent at their job that they have to be "Major League"-esque sabotaging their franchise. I can see why they'd want him gone. He's a media darling despite doing very little and nobody but Tebow gets any attention on whatever team he's on. Having him or Peyton Manning...is there really any surprise they'd be happy without him? It isn't about finding the "Next Tebow" it's that he was the prototype, so to speak, of the new-model offense. Griffin, Wilson and Kaepernick all outlcass him wholly, but their playstyle is more akin to what Denver had him do than to a Vick/Newton type.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jan 23, 2013 11:37:15 GMT -5
Offensive coordinator Norv Turner will be calling the plays for the Browns next season.
A law enforcement source tells the San Francisco Chronicle that the sexual assault allegations against Michael Crabtree are not holding up under investigation.
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 23, 2013 11:44:24 GMT -5
Im telling you guys, if Cleveland has a decent draft and can grab a nice FA piece they need, they could surprise some people next season
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Post by Error on Jan 23, 2013 11:53:23 GMT -5
Im telling you guys, if Cleveland has a decent draft and can grab a nice FA piece they need, they could surprise some people next season I've thought that for the last few seasons but something always stops it. I'd love to see them put it together but am starting to wonder if that's possible.
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Ben Wyatt
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Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 23, 2013 12:08:34 GMT -5
Im telling you guys, if Cleveland has a decent draft and can grab a nice FA piece they need, they could surprise some people next season I've thought that for the last few seasons but something always stops it. I'd love to see them put it together but am starting to wonder if that's possible. They played tough in most games last year. They get a few pieces and a coach that can keep them maintaining that energy, they can at least make life difficult in the AFC north
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Sektor
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Post by Sektor on Jan 23, 2013 12:25:28 GMT -5
If QB gets solved the Browns could contend for the division. I've said before, but Pat Shurmur was really bad, reeeeeally bad. Even if Chudzinski doesn't know anything about defense, he came into this job actually being good at something. Along with the front office getting overhauled, its starting to look like God doesn't hate Cleveland (as much).
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jan 23, 2013 12:40:14 GMT -5
Coach Rob Chudzinski again declined to commit to Brandon Weeden as his 2013 starter.
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