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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 26, 2013 13:27:42 GMT -5
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Jan 26, 2013 13:38:52 GMT -5
Has there ever been a case of a horror franchise going into space (that didn't start with it like Alien) being good?
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 26, 2013 13:45:36 GMT -5
Has there ever been a case of a horror franchise going into space (that didn't start with it like Alien) being good? Well, Predators (which was on an alien planet) was good. Although that planet looked almost exactly like Earth so that may not count. The only other one where going to space should have been fine in Critters 4 was marred by a bad script and bad acting.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Jan 26, 2013 18:04:12 GMT -5
One of my personal "laws" in entertainment and fiction is if a franchise has a sequel in which it is set IN SPACE but then has further sequels not in space, the core character(s) in that franchise are invincible. The key is that the franchise had nothing to do with space beforehand and continues to have nothing to do with space afterwards.
Pinhead meets this criterion, as do Jason, the Leprechaun, and Critters.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Jan 26, 2013 18:29:52 GMT -5
As for the movie itself, an amusing plot hole to me was the kidnapping of the kid. Let's think about this for a moment: you have Angelique, who passes for normal, fine, but then you have Pinhead and the Twin Cenobite, who are absolute freaks. The kid doesn't live in that building - they had to travel to Merchant's home to nab the kid and the wife and then take them back. Can we take this moment to contemplate the utterly ridiculous image this conjures up? Did they take a cab or something? Can you imagine Pinhead traveling by cab? Did they dress him up to not draw attention? Did Pinhead simply walk about in full daylight on the streets of gay Paris? What about the return trip? How did these events transpire? These are grounds for comedy, not horror.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Jan 26, 2013 18:31:05 GMT -5
One of my personal "laws" in entertainment and fiction is if a franchise has a sequel in which it is set IN SPACE but then has further sequels not in space, the core character(s) in that franchise are invincible. The key is that the franchise had nothing to do with space beforehand and continues to afterwards. Pinhead meets this criterion, as do Jason, the Leprechaun, and Critters. Hell even Dracula went into space
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 26, 2013 19:01:11 GMT -5
One of my personal "laws" in entertainment and fiction is if a franchise has a sequel in which it is set IN SPACE but then has further sequels not in space, the core character(s) in that franchise are invincible. The key is that the franchise had nothing to do with space beforehand and continues to afterwards. Pinhead meets this criterion, as do Jason, the Leprechaun, and Critters. Hell even Dracula went into space The film says he was Count Orlok.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 26, 2013 20:03:17 GMT -5
As for the movie itself, an amusing plot hole to me was the kidnapping of the kid. Let's think about this for a moment: you have Angelique, who passes for normal, fine, but then you have Pinhead and the Twin Cenobite, who are absolute freaks. The kid doesn't live in that building - they had to travel to Merchant's home to nab the kid and the wife and then take them back. Can we take this moment to contemplate the utterly ridiculous image this conjures up? Did they take a cab or something? Can you imagine Pinhead traveling by cab? Did they dress him up to not draw attention? Did Pinhead simply walk about in full daylight on the streets of gay Paris? What about the return trip? How did these events transpire? These are grounds for comedy, not horror. One word answer.......... Magic. Third one did have Pinhead go different places rather easily if I remember.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Jan 26, 2013 21:42:00 GMT -5
As for the movie itself, an amusing plot hole to me was the kidnapping of the kid. Let's think about this for a moment: you have Angelique, who passes for normal, fine, but then you have Pinhead and the Twin Cenobite, who are absolute freaks. The kid doesn't live in that building - they had to travel to Merchant's home to nab the kid and the wife and then take them back. Can we take this moment to contemplate the utterly ridiculous image this conjures up? Did they take a cab or something? Can you imagine Pinhead traveling by cab? Did they dress him up to not draw attention? Did Pinhead simply walk about in full daylight on the streets of gay Paris? What about the return trip? How did these events transpire? These are grounds for comedy, not horror. One word answer.......... Magic. Third one did have Pinhead go different places rather easily if I remember. Hm... I don't recall him leaving the Boiler Room until after he invaded and didn't give a damn. That is, him going anywhere wasn't an issue. I'd go back and watch, but that would mean watching HR3. In BL, without any previously established means of transportation, we have a humorous plot hole. In fact, I would give credit to the movie if Angelique gave the kid the box so he would unwittingly summon Pinhead straight to the house - it's a puzzle box after all. But that, IMO, is smart and clever writing, something that went bye-bye starting with HoE. Sure, BL may have killed HR's theatrical credibility, but I think HoE struck the first crippling blow.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jan 26, 2013 22:09:27 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts, Seth:
1) I think the cenobites here are better here than compared to Hellraiser III. The twisty face cenobite and female cenobite came away better to me than Camera and cd throwing cenobites.
2) Adam Scott was in it! This is like Paul Rudd in Halloween 6. You forget the roles some of these people do until you re-watch or someone mentions it.
3) One of my theories on my Hellraiser 3 and 4 sucked and others here have said it is that they went to far with Pinhead. Pinhead in I and II was much more like Hell's referee than the "bad guy". Clearly those roles were filled by Frank, Julia, and Dr. Channard in the first two films.
4) My sympathy for having to sit through Oogieloves.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 26, 2013 22:52:18 GMT -5
One word answer.......... Magic. Third one did have Pinhead go different places rather easily if I remember. Hm... I don't recall him leaving the Boiler Room until after he invaded and didn't give a damn. That is, him going anywhere wasn't an issue. I'd go back and watch, but that would mean watching HR3. In BL, without any previously established means of transportation, we have a humorous plot hole. In fact, I would give credit to the movie if Angelique gave the kid the box so he would unwittingly summon Pinhead straight to the house - it's a puzzle box after all. But that, IMO, is smart and clever writing, something that went bye-bye starting with HoE. Sure, BL may have killed HR's theatrical credibility, but I think HoE struck the first crippling blow. Ah who the hell knows how Pinhead got there. By the way, I dont hate Hell on Earth last time I watched although I would have to watch it again.
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Jan 26, 2013 22:56:52 GMT -5
One of my personal "laws" in entertainment and fiction is if a franchise has a sequel in which it is set IN SPACE but then has further sequels not in space, the core character(s) in that franchise are invincible. The key is that the franchise had nothing to do with space beforehand and continues to have nothing to do with space afterwards. Is that just horror or no? If not, I think Mario is an exception to the rule. ...yeah there were two Galaxy games, but most of his games aren't space based.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 27, 2013 1:25:26 GMT -5
One of my personal "laws" in entertainment and fiction is if a franchise has a sequel in which it is set IN SPACE but then has further sequels not in space, the core character(s) in that franchise are invincible. The key is that the franchise had nothing to do with space beforehand and continues to have nothing to do with space afterwards. Is that just horror or no? If not, I think Mario is an exception to the rule. ...yeah there were two Galaxy games, but most of his games aren't space based. Horror movies
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Jan 27, 2013 3:32:10 GMT -5
Generally horror movies, yes, if only because horror movies resort to it with more regularity than other genres and they are more predicated on killing the main drive of the movies. I'm receptive to the idea that it extends to any long-running series though, but video games, comic books, and television tell stories rather differently than movies.
To clarify: Pinhead was IN SPACE in HR:BL, then was back on Earth in Inferno. Jason was IN SPACE in Jason X, then back on Earth for FvJ. Critters were on Earth first (though from space interestingly - might be a technical disqualification), then IN SPACE for Critters 4, then back to business for 5 IIRC. The Leprechaun went to Tha Hood after he was IN SPACE. If Abbott & Costello had a movie IN SPACE and then did something else in a later sequel, they would be just as invincible.
Furthermore, in-universe chronological order is not a factor, only production order. If not a single HR movie was ever produced after BL, Pinhead would not qualify. Sadly, five more were produced and thus he qualifies.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Jan 27, 2013 3:41:31 GMT -5
Hm... I don't recall him leaving the Boiler Room until after he invaded and didn't give a damn. That is, him going anywhere wasn't an issue. I'd go back and watch, but that would mean watching HR3. In BL, without any previously established means of transportation, we have a humorous plot hole. In fact, I would give credit to the movie if Angelique gave the kid the box so he would unwittingly summon Pinhead straight to the house - it's a puzzle box after all. But that, IMO, is smart and clever writing, something that went bye-bye starting with HoE. Sure, BL may have killed HR's theatrical credibility, but I think HoE struck the first crippling blow. Ah who the hell knows how Pinhead got there. By the way, I dont hate Hell on Earth last time I watched although I would have to watch it again. I wont say I hate HoE. It's the last of the series to generally retain the aesthetics and cinematography of the first two movies; it still has remnants of what made the first two so damned creepy. That said, the script is silly and lousy. Pinhead shouldn't crack jokes and he shouldn't have been pushed so hard like he's the King of Hell. It also made the Cenobites into cheap, cheesy gimmicks. Cenobites shouldn't remind me of Gremlins 2 and the things it parodied. I've seen much worse than HoE (or BL), but I've seen much better too.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 27, 2013 4:34:04 GMT -5
I really don't think the fan nickname of "Pinhead IN SPACE" is very accurate as there isn't much of space. Or Pinhead. Most of it takes place in the 18th (or 17th?) and 20th century. The film is also nowhere near as fun as that nickname suggests. The only good points of that movie IMO are the new Cenobites -Angélique, the Twins and the Chatter Dog-, which look rather cool. As for the movie itself, an amusing plot hole to me was the kidnapping of the kid. Let's think about this for a moment: you have Angelique, who passes for normal, fine, but then you have Pinhead and the Twin Cenobite, who are absolute freaks. The kid doesn't live in that building - they had to travel to Merchant's home to nab the kid and the wife and then take them back. Can we take this moment to contemplate the utterly ridiculous image this conjures up? Did they take a cab or something? Can you imagine Pinhead traveling by cab? Did they dress him up to not draw attention? Did Pinhead simply walk about in full daylight on the streets of gay Paris? What about the return trip? How did these events transpire? These are grounds for comedy, not horror. In the interest of fairness, it's been established by now that the Cenobites can teleport (as early as the first movie, the Female is in a room with her colleagues and suddenly pops up on the staircase Kirsti tries to run down). Also they can create portaks from hell to anywhere else. 3) One of my theories on my Hellraiser 3 and 4 sucked and others here have said it is that they went to far with Pinhead. Pinhead in I and II was much more like Hell's referee than the "bad guy". Clearly those roles were filled by Frank, Julia, and Dr. Channard in the first two films. Pretty much. What made the Cenobites stand out is that they are NOT evil. As Pinhead himself says in the first film, they are "angels to some, demons to others". They also follow a strict hierarchy which makes them creatures of order rather than chaos. It was really a unique twist on the concept of demons (for lack of a better word). Starting with 3, they made them into generic, gloating slasher villains and if I can give the sequels past Bloodlines anything, it's that they went back to making the Cenobites more neutral (well, except Deader where they f'ed it up again). Revelations was surprisingly good about this and it's the main reason I can't hate that movie.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jan 27, 2013 11:40:56 GMT -5
Im sad we have a person called Rimmer and no Red Dwarf reference.
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Jan 27, 2013 11:53:30 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what program do you use to get the screenshots?
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jan 27, 2013 12:22:18 GMT -5
Also, I just realized something: didn't the franchise establish that the Lament Configuration was Lemarchand's first puzzle box? Doesn't that imply he made more (especially when we see multiple boxes in Chanard's study in Hellbound)? How is that possible if he died on his way to bringing his first box?
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 27, 2013 12:40:51 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what program do you use to get the screenshots? I use Corel WinDVD 2011, its a yearly subscription. I am only able to use DVDs since it wont let you get screenshots from a Blu Ray.
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