One Thing That Hurts Cena's Legacy

[Stu]

Okay, I just wanted to run this by you guys. Everyone knows John Cena is the official face of WWE, and he’s certainly doing a good job of it. However, people often point out he’s incomparable to the company’s previous top guys, Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin. Reasons usually include his staleness, poopy jokes and tendency to always win. But there are a couple other reasons that few people point out but, to be honest, aren’t exactly Cena’s fault. Actually, the blame could fall on booking and the general state of the industry. And that’s what I would like to discuss.

Working in Hogan’s favor was the smaller number of PPVs, as well as the lack of interaction between superstars compared to today’s programs. Despite being the top guy for nearly a decade, his feuds were relatively low in number and lasted for months at a time. This prevented his career from being cluttered with too many meaningless angles and made those that did exist more significant and memorable. This also allowed his Wrestlemania appearances to either have a lot of build or be significant for the simple fact it was rare to see major characters appear together.

Austin was in a different era that included numerous PPVs and interaction between major characters on a weekly basis. But what people tend to overlook is that he wasn’t around anywhere near as long as Hogan or Cena. Austin was the top guy in 1998 and 1999 before missing most of 2000. And by the time he returned, he had to share the spotlight with The Rock only to turn heel a few months later and get caught up in the Invasion angle. So despite being in the era of “too many PPVs” and fast-paced storylines, Austin managed to maintain few - but quality - feuds and angles. It doesn’t hurt that his fueds all had sufficient build, either. Hell, his angle with Vince McMahon lasted more than a year.

And here is where we get to Cena. Looking at the above information, it’s not hard to see how his career has been impacted.

Taking over some 20 years after the birth of Hulkamania, Cena found himself in the midst of the “too many PPVs” and fast-paced storyline era, maintaining the role of top guy for eight years and still going. He’s found himself moving from angle to angle, which is just one reason why it’s not exactly clear if he has a clear-cut rival. People will often point to Edge as Cena’s rival, but the fact is their interaction barely fills a significant portion of Cena’s tenure. He may have been Cena’s most memorable enemy, but they didn’t seem to have any parallels along the lines of Hogan/Savage, Hart/Michaels, Rock/HHH, etc.

And as if not having an official rival wasn’t enough, it’s debateable whether Cena has ever had an official Wrestlemania moment outside of possibly facing The Rock. Certainly, he’s had good matches against the likes of Triple H and Shawn Michaels, but it could be argued they could been better if they had more substantial buildup instead of being thrown together within a month before Wrestlemania. One missed opportunity could have been a Cena/Edge main event at Wrestlemania 22. Had they held off on the Royal Rumble match that year (featuring a spaceship), a Cena victory could have meant more.

At the end of the day, everyone knows Cena is the face of WWE and it’s hard to overlook that, regardless of what he does. Unfortunately, it seems like he’ll ever have that defining moment of his career, unless you count Wrestlemania 22 when it officially became clear he was going to be booed more than he would be cheered.

Thoughts?

[The Doctor]

I think that all makes sense.

But in my opinion the main difference is our ages. The people who are the loudest and harshest critics of Cena but were fans of Hogan and then Austin were kids at that time. Now those same people are adults. Adults who aren't entertained by what they would have been when they were much younger. But expect pro wrestling to have aged with them. Which it hasn't. Doesn't. And won't.

But the important factor is that Cena IS popular with young people now. So he is a definitive success. Pushing all the right buttons, having great matches, cutting good promos and entertaining thousands of people and, as you say, for a much longer time than most previous 'top guys' did.

But the people who write about Cena, the people who blog and tweet about him, the people who underline his suppose myriad problems are not the people whose opinions of him matter all that much. The people whose opinions matter are those that spend their money to see him fight, to see him talk, to wear his t shirts and caps and whatever else. Of which there are a lot.

So really his legacy depends on who you ask to define it for you. Ask a random male of over 18 and he might say 'Cena sucks'. Ask a kid and they'll almost certainly say 'Cena is the best'. Ask WWE's accountants and they'll tell you just how great John Cena is. And if you define it based on popularity and money earned then Cena is right up there with the best of them. It's just that these days having a fan base made up primarily of kids is frowned upon, which is weird considering that has been the basis of pro wrestling for the majority of it's existence.

And as far as a defining moment goes. I'd say his best moments have come outside of Wrestlemania. His return at Royal Rumble 2008 stands out, his entrance at One Night Stand vs RVD, the night he turned up on Raw on The Highlight Reel. And my personal favourite his promo with The Rock on the Raw just before Wrestlemania 27. I also think his match with The Rock will be remembered more fondly for how momentous it was as the years go by.

["Trickster Dogg" James Jesse]

Cena has two things that work against him today that Hogan and Austin respectively didn't.

For Hogan, he had a wide array of challengers because of how the WWF kept a lot of heels grouped together in stables. If it wasn't Bobby Heenan and Mr. Perfect gunning for Hogan, it was Jimmy Hart and Earthquake. So when Hogan finished up a program with Paul Orndorff or King Kong Bundy, he could move on to Andre the Giant, the Macho Man, or Roddy Piper to keep his feuds fresh. And while I don't think people expected Akeem or the Big Boss Man to beat Hogan for the title, they were still perceived as being credible challengers to Hogan, to the point that he would turn to his friends for help in tag matches, six man matches, and Survivor Series match-ups. Hogan was made to look vulnerable, which made the guys he turned to seem more legitimate because the Hulkster, the WWF champion, was enlisting their help.

With Austin, his character evolved over time. He started as 'the Ringmaster' under DiBiase's tutelage, but then broke out on his own, and he put himself on the map with the promo at King of the Ring. He then developed a pissed-off attitude which he directed at Bret Hart. Austin and Hart would develop an intense rivalry that became so huge that Bret had to rely on his family for help. Austin being a part of the U.S. contingent wasn't about representing America, it was about kicking ass. His neck injury began the transition of Stone Cold being an anti-authority face/tweener gimmick. At this point, this gimmick crossed paths with Vince McMahon, now recognized as the owner of the WWF. So when Austin first gave the Stunner to McMahon, the seed of the anti-establishment babyface vs. the evil corporate boss angle that dominated 1998-1999 television programming was already planted. By the time that angle, because of injury and character exhaustion, ran its course, Austin became a paranoid psychotic and betrayed himself to his most accursed villain to win back the WWF title because he didn't have the confidence to think he could do it all on his own.

I know a lot of fans say that in hindsight they thought the Rock was stale and that Austin's heel turn was a mistake. I tend to take a bit more of an opposite stance. I still liked the Rock, though I thought he could freshen up his act some, but I was bored with Austin as the hell-raising face. By the end of the heel run, Austin's career was pretty much done, and he became a catchphrase machine (maybe even cliche) which in many ways he still perpetuates when he's on WWE program today.

Cena doesn't have the roster depth or the character development that Hogan and Austin both had in their time periods. For instance, why did Cena need Rock's help with Miz and Truth for Survivor Series when he beat them clean on Raw before the pay-per-view? It undercuts the drama of the top babyface turning to someone for help. It'd be like if Hogan beat Sgt. Slaughter and Col. Mustafa by himself on free TV before Summerslam 1991.

In addition, Cena's really only had a handful of gimmick changes. He was blue chipper 'Ruthless Aggression' babyface, heel rapper, babyface rapper, babyface rapper-marine, and whatever he is supposed to be now. As such, the lack of any 'character' (gimmick) means that many of his feuds don't have the same intensity or importance as Austin vs. McMahon did, because he laughs off any loss he gets the next night, though he SAYS before the match that winning is everything to him. So no one can really provoke him in any logical or meaningful way. Mix in his character inconsistency ('I won't change, Rock!' *comes out to 'Basic Thuganomics'*) and he becomes a confusing mess. Top it all off with his oversaturation and dominance of the card and it leaves a lot of fans burned out on the guy, too tired to even care to hate him.

[Ijob2HHH]

Just one other thing to toss out, but Stone Cold also had the constant story arch of him vs vince. Seriously, everyone else he faced was either an wall put in his way by vince, or on his way to vince. And that is really what I remember most when I think of stone cold. He had some good angles with some wrestlers, but it was the two year long war with the owner of the company that IS his legacy.

Cena? He suffers from scoobie doo syndrome. He deals with the 'monster of the week' and gets no real character development.

As for his rival, edge is one, but the other most notable has to be Orton. Unfortunately, with orton we got overdosed on their rivalry as they spent almost half a year of shows and ppvs with back and forth fights with no real conclusion.

["Trickster Dogg" James Jesse]

I think to add to the discussion about Austin/McMahon, that angle ended up involving so many people. At the heart of the conflict was Austin and McMahon, but it also included people like the Rock, Mankind, Kane, the Undertaker, Triple H, X-Pac, Chyna, the New Age Outlaws, the Big Show, Ken Shamrock, the Acolytes, and on and on.

I think the closest Cena's come to that was dealing with the Nexus. But that didn't really pan out very well.

[Red Impact]

The way that his his career has gone, they pretty much ensured that his most memorable moments would all be losses. Initially, he had some hallmark wins, but as of now they basically have gone so long ensuring that Cena was on top and losses never hurt him and he wins the title so regularly that there really is nothing he could do to push him to the next level. He's not buyable as an underdog, he's not buyable as vulnerable, and the way he's pretty much had no loss effect his character, it's not buyable that he even really cares at the end of the day as long as he is where he is.

As tired a comparison as it is, it's no different than how people view Superman, no matter who beats him down over the course of an issue or movie, people dont' buy that he's really weaker than someone and until he gets actually killed put into a healing coma, it's not really noteworthy.

That's why I don't think it would have been a big deal to beat the Rock last year, because the way his character has developed, it just doesn't seem like it mattered if he did, despite their insistence to the contrary. It didn't matter that he lost to Nexus, Punk, or anyone else on the roster.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2013 21:47:00 GMT -5 "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse said:

Cena has two things that work against him today that Hogan and Austin respectively didn't.

For Hogan, he had a wide array of challengers because of how the WWF kept a lot of heels grouped together in stables. If it wasn't Bobby Heenan and Mr. Perfect gunning for Hogan, it was Jimmy Hart and Earthquake. So when Hogan finished up a program with Paul Orndorff or King Kong Bundy, he could move on to Andre the Giant, the Macho Man, or Roddy Piper to keep his feuds fresh. And while I don't think people expected Akeem or the Big Boss Man to beat Hogan for the title, they were still perceived as being credible challengers to Hogan, to the point that he would turn to his friends for help in tag matches, six man matches, and Survivor Series match-ups. Hogan was made to look vulnerable, which made the guys he turned to seem more legitimate because the Hulkster, the WWF champion, was enlisting their help.

With Austin, his character evolved over time. He started as 'the Ringmaster' under DiBiase's tutelage, but then broke out on his own, and he put himself on the map with the promo at King of the Ring. He then developed a pissed-off attitude which he directed at Bret Hart. Austin and Hart would develop an intense rivalry that became so huge that Bret had to rely on his family for help. Austin being a part of the U.S. contingent wasn't about representing America, it was about kicking ass. His neck injury began the transition of Stone Cold being an anti-authority face/tweener gimmick. At this point, this gimmick crossed paths with Vince McMahon, now recognized as the owner of the WWF. So when Austin first gave the Stunner to McMahon, the seed of the anti-establishment babyface vs. the evil corporate boss angle that dominated 1998-1999 television programming was already planted. By the time that angle, because of injury and character exhaustion, ran its course, Austin became a paranoid psychotic and betrayed himself to his most accursed villain to win back the WWF title because he didn't have the confidence to think he could do it all on his own.

I know a lot of fans say that in hindsight they thought the Rock was stale and that Austin's heel turn was a mistake. I tend to take a bit more of an opposite stance. I still liked the Rock, though I thought he could freshen up his act some, but I was bored with Austin as the hell-raising face. By the end of the heel run, Austin's career was pretty much done, and he became a catchphrase machine (maybe even cliche) which in many ways he still perpetuates when he's on WWE program today.

Cena doesn't have the roster depth or the character development that Hogan and Austin both had in their time periods. For instance, why did Cena need Rock's help with Miz and Truth for Survivor Series when he beat them clean on Raw before the pay-per-view? It undercuts the drama of the top babyface turning to someone for help. It'd be like if Hogan beat Sgt. Slaughter and Col. Mustafa by himself on free TV before Summerslam 1991.

In addition, Cena's really only had a handful of gimmick changes. He was blue chipper 'Ruthless Aggression' babyface, heel rapper, babyface rapper, babyface rapper-marine, and whatever he is supposed to be now. As such, the lack of any 'character' (gimmick) means that many of his feuds don't have the same intensity or importance as Austin vs. McMahon did, because he laughs off any loss he gets the next night, though he SAYS before the match that winning is everything to him. So no one can really provoke him in any logical or meaningful way. Mix in his character inconsistency ('I won't change, Rock!' *comes out to 'Basic Thuganomics'*) and he becomes a confusing mess. Top it all off with his oversaturation and dominance of the card and it leaves a lot of fans burned out on the guy, too tired to even care to hate him.

I think a key part of what sets Cena's reign apart from Ausin 3:16 or Hulkamania is that while I think Cena is far better than he's given credit for, and often times better than he even seems to allow himself to be, is that Austin 3:16 and Hulkamania happened a lot more fluidly.

When Hulk and Austin broke through, you look back on it and you struggle to even envision a world where they wouldn't have been the stars they became. Hulkamania and Austin 3:16 just feel like something that was gonna happen no matter what. Cena had a great thing going with his heel character and got the fans into him enough for the WWE to put a little more juice behind him. They gave him the freedom to be who he wants to be on a main event level, but I never saw it as something where this guy is so good he has got to be the face of the company.

Even today WWE has to really put in work to tell us this is the guy that defines this era. Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin had a natural likeability that broke through to multiple demographics of their eras. Cena doesn't have that. His grade 3 sense of humor is extremely polarizing, he's huge with kids, but he doesn't hold up to the superstardom of Steve Austin and Hulk Hogan.

I think ten years past when we look at Cena's legacy, the thing that sets him apart is the contention with the fans. I think that's the coolest thing about his time on the top. The fact that even though not everyone's a part of the Cenation, Cena still gets the loudest reactions on shows positive or negative.

I agree with many points made above, I think roster depth can play a part, the ADD storytelling in modern wrestling too, and I also think we live in more cynical times in general. I think in a different time Cena could have been seen as just as successful, just as if Hulk Hogan started his career today with the same "eat your vitamins and say your prayers" act it might not have gone over as well. Ultimately though I think it's just a matter of the stars weren't aligned right, and Cena, while phenomenal at what he does, just doesn't have the same "X factor" as his predecessors.

[Dat Dude]

I think what hurt Cena booking wise is that with the "rebel" persona he had when he won the title in 2005 works best when chasing the title all the time (only winning it for brief periods similar to how Austin, Rock, and Foley were booked), instead of holding the title and vanquishing heels for long periods of time. It's tough to be "against the system" when you're the poster boy for the company. When the adult crowd started to notice this, is when they started to turn on him.