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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jan 27, 2013 17:35:00 GMT -5
I've often seen Michaels' 1996 run referred to as the best single run that anyone has ever had with the WWF/WWE Championship. If Punk loses tonight do you think he has eclipsed the quality of this run or is Michaels still king?
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 27, 2013 17:37:20 GMT -5
Wow there are a lot of runs I'd put ahead of that Shawn run. Bret in 1994, Hogan 84-88, Yoko in 93-94, Austin in 98, Austin in 99, Rock in 2000, JBL in 04-05, Orton in 07-08, Cena in 06-07. And certainly Punk in 2011-?, emphasis on ?.
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Cronant
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Post by Cronant on Jan 27, 2013 17:39:32 GMT -5
Neither rank next to 2007 Cena.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jan 27, 2013 17:39:35 GMT -5
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jan 27, 2013 17:40:46 GMT -5
That Shawn run is incredible if only for the frequency of matches and week-in-week-out incredible opponents.
You had:
Bret Hart
Diesel
Owen Hart
British Bulldog
Marty Jannetty
Yokozuna
Hunter Hearst-Helmsley
Vader
Mankind
Goldust (incredible house show ladder match run)
Sid
It's at least a top 5 run of the modern era.
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Arrow
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Post by Arrow on Jan 27, 2013 17:41:25 GMT -5
If I to choose, probably Punk's. I'm struggling to remember much of Michael's run - Vader, Sid, Mankind, lost his smile, and that's about it.
Neither of them are anywhere near great, though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 17:42:39 GMT -5
I haven't really experienced Michaels' run, since I haven't watched many shows from that time period and I didn't start watching until mid-1998, so kind of torn here. On one hand, company's hardly in danger of going out of business under Punk. On the other, Punk's title reign has suuuuucked.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jan 27, 2013 17:43:11 GMT -5
If I to choose, probably Punk's. I'm struggling to remember much of Michael's run - Vader, Sid, Mankind, lost his smile, and that's about it. Neither of them are anywhere near great, though. Michaels lost his smile in 1997. In 1996 he lost it to Sid. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jan 27, 2013 17:45:41 GMT -5
Seriously, a lot of you need to go back and watch that Michaels run. Stellar matches week-in week-out.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 27, 2013 17:53:48 GMT -5
Seriously, a lot of you need to go back and watch that Michaels run. Stellar matches week-in week-out. My problem with it was that like a lot of Cena's defenses I never felt like he was at risk of losing the title. Especially not in stuff like the two PPV matches against Bulldog, who I felt obviously had no chance. If Bulldog couldn't beat Bret I couldn't see how he had a shot at beating Michaels who had made Bret look like some tired old man. The first guy who seemed like he had a shot was Vader but then Shawn laughed him off and treated him like a joke too, their match being an overbooked mess with restarts. Mankind didn't seem like a real threat either. It seemed like Hogan's run in 1991 to me. I think them not doing a feud with Undertaker or Warrior and the exit of Razor and Diesel (their match at GFBE having to be the high point of the reign) and Bret really hurt the pool of opponents as far as legitimacy was concerned. Maybe a dissonance comes from me considering a reign on the basis of dramatic narrative rather than in-ring match quality. I never felt like Shawn was vulnerable and spent the entire reign at some kind of emotional distance from it. |
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Post by celticjobber on Jan 27, 2013 19:21:12 GMT -5
Looking back, HBK had alot of great matches during that run. But at the time, I absolutely hated his totally unconvincing babyface character and it hurt that run, atleast IMO.
CM Punk's reign has arguably been more memorable, though I think he's had less great matches than Shawn did.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Jan 27, 2013 19:24:11 GMT -5
That Shawn run is incredible if only for the frequency of matches and week-in-week-out incredible opponents. You had: Bret Hart Diesel Owen Hart British Bulldog Marty Jannetty Yokozuna Hunter Hearst-Helmsley Vader Mankind Goldust (incredible house show ladder match run) Sid It's at least a top 5 run of the modern era. Yeah, I gotta go with that. I hated his character, especially with Lothario following him around...as if he needed him, but the matches themselves were excellent, it's definitely up there simply because of the match quality. |
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Post by Starshine on Jan 27, 2013 19:43:33 GMT -5
Neither rank next to 2007 Cena. Nah, that reign took ages to actually get going. Even then, it was pretty spotty between great matches and clunkers. |
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jan 27, 2013 20:03:18 GMT -5
i think the op means match quailty not charachter/storyline development
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Post by What? on Jan 27, 2013 20:30:52 GMT -5
The Shawn Michaels run is something I look back fondly upon. He was really putting in some great matches, but looking back I realize that the generic Babyface existed even then. I was kind of turned off by the whole boyhood dream thing, because it was everything that pre-1995 Shawn Michaels never was. I believe he really could've been one of the first true tweeners, but I also understand that they wanted him to appeal to the women and children. From what I remember, his main rivals during this period were Diesel, the British Bulldog, Vader, Mankind, and Sid. The diesel feud was pretty cool, but I had no idea that Nash was gonna leave pretty soon (lack of Internet). And I may suffer a beat down for saying this, but I never bought the British bulldog was anything more than an upper mid-card wrestler. At the time, I was not excited to see the bulldog in the main event scene. The Vader feud really intrigued me at the time, but boy did the steam run out of that one fast. After SummerSlam 1996, Vader was far from ever being the same again. The mind games, 1996 match with mankind was really awesome in retrospect. But at the time, I saw the feud with Mick Foley is a huge step down for Michaels, so at the time, it did not allow me to enjoy the match for what it was. This Sid feud was just weird. I could not tell you who the good guy was or who the bad guy was. Both men seem to be on the verge of turning, but continued to be cheered by the fans. That whole thing eventually led to the huge main event mess that existed in early 1997.
I won't get as descriptive in describing CM Punk's reign, because I don't think any of us need a history lesson on that. Yes, he had a longer title reign, but this was due to Rock returning for the Rumble. Today's challengers are not nearly as notable as the characters from 16 years ago. But then again, I thought the same about them in 1996. Due to being biased, I tend to lean towards the Shawn Michaels reign. But Punk's reign, like Shawn's may be looked at differently in a decade and a half from now, if the current crop of guys breakthrough that ceiling and leave a lasting impressions like the wrestlers from yesteryear have left.
It's kind of like judging a draft class. They say you cannot accurately judge a draft class until three years later. So perhaps this is what applies to answering this question. I could never give the nod to CM punk, due to a long title reign, because of the context of that long title reign. I simply know why he had that long title reign, so that's a nonfactor. I would prefer to judge the substance of the title reign, and until I can give it the same treatment as the Shawn Michaels reign, I cannot judge it fairly.
Like most things in the past, things felt like garbage as it happened...but now they are the "good old days." I'm an old-school WWF guy, no doubt. But maybe when I could look back on the CM punk title reign, I may find a better than the Shawn Michaels 1996 one.
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Post by thegame415 on Jan 27, 2013 20:35:09 GMT -5
i think the op means match quailty not charachter/storyline development I agree. That HBK run in 1996 was one of the only reasons to order PPVs. Punk, Michaels, and Hart all have unique reigns in the sense that the match quality was some of the best, but they didn't draw much as champions. |
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Post by lewis1711 on Jan 27, 2013 21:07:50 GMT -5
That Shawn run is incredible if only for the frequency of matches and week-in-week-out incredible opponents. You had: Bret Hart Diesel Owen Hart British Bulldog Marty Jannetty Yokozuna Hunter Hearst-Helmsley Vader Mankind Goldust (incredible house show ladder match run) Sid It's at least a top 5 run of the modern era. When did Owen Hart and HBK have a match in 1996? I Know they had the one at the PPV between RR 96 and WM12, but Shawn wasn't champion then. |
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Madagascar Fred
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Jan 27, 2013 22:34:35 GMT -5
Shawn's 96 run was all "great matches, no heat whatsoever"
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