Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jan 30, 2013 12:30:28 GMT -5
I kinda feel that it's hypocritical to say "with Superman, I always know he's going to win..." Do some of you read Batman and honestly believe Penguin will certainly get away with robbing the bank this time, or whatever?
I'm also a tiny bit confused with the whole "Batman is so vulnerable and outmatched by his rogue's gallery" thing. Other than the fact that he's supposed to be human and get killed by the guns the various rogues and their thugs wield, Batman is almost always smarter, stronger, faster, more durable, more agile, better at fighting, and has better gadgets than nearly all of his rogues. I can really only think of a tiny handful of Batman's foes that can nearly equal or surpass him in any of the mentioned categories...and mostly, they might surpass him in one or two abilities, but suck in the others (Killer Croc or Clayface, for example, might each be stronger than Batman, but neither of them can ever hope to match him in brains, fighting ability, speed, ect)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 12:34:44 GMT -5
I kinda feel that it's hypocritical to say "with Superman, I always know he's going to win..." Do some of you read Batman and honestly believe Penguin will certainly get away with robbing the bank this time, or whatever? I'm also a tiny bit confused with the whole "Batman is so vulnerable and outmatched by his rogue's gallery" thing. Other than the fact that he's supposed to be human and get killed by the guns the various rogues and their thugs wield, Batman is almost always smarter, stronger, faster, more durable, more agile, better at fighting, and has better gadgets than nearly all of his rogues. I can really only think of a tiny handful of Batman's foes that can nearly equal or surpass him in any of the mentioned categories...and mostly, they might surpass him in one or two abilities, but suck in the others (Killer Croc or Clayface, for example, might each be stronger than Batman, but neither of them can ever hope to match him in brains, fighting ability, speed, ect) THANK YOU! Yes. I mean, I'm not saying Batman should let people get away with stuff, but it would be much more interesting if sometimes - just sometimes the criminals won. Like Homicide Life on the Street - great detective show and the cops didn't always catch the bad guys. Sometimes they walked free and that made the show that much better. Superman/Batman - basically the same dude, just different colored tights. If anything - Supes has got the more depressing back story. Sure Wayne's parents were murdered, but Superman's entire planet was destroyed! haha, anyway...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 12:40:52 GMT -5
Superman: A Goodtooshoes boy scout that has a weaken to a green rock who probably still a virgin. Batman: A badass rebel millionaire that a mix between Dirty Harry, Bruce Lee/Chuck Norris and Billy Gates, who probably bang your mom already while your dad watch .
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,910
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Post by hassanchop on Jan 30, 2013 12:51:19 GMT -5
Originally read: Why is Bateman more popular than Superman? That's because his character as he put it: "My character sees life through rose-colored glasses so he doesn't understand how people can't see the positive side of Hancock. I like being the everyman. I like being the tour guide, the one who tethers whatever absurdity might be in a film and helps make that tangible to the audience."
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Jan 30, 2013 13:03:59 GMT -5
I kinda feel that it's hypocritical to say "with Superman, I always know he's going to win..." Do some of you read Batman and honestly believe Penguin will certainly get away with robbing the bank this time, or whatever? That has happened a few times. Plus, Batman has had his back broken, his sidekicks murdered, been outright defeated--it's not brought up by the internet too often, but he has flat out lost against things like the Swamp Thing even when he had prep time. Sometimes, he fails to save as many people as he wants to, much more often than Superman does. Penguin turned face last I was reading comics so I'm not sure about how he's written nowadays, but it's not exactly uncommon for Batman to lose to his villains. What happens is, he loses to them first(they do something, steal something, then escape) then wins at the end of the arc. What I mean is, Batman stories are usually about how he'll take his opponents down. He fights uphills battles even if he wins pretty often. Superman stories are usually about how his enemies take him down, and while those can be interesting, people generally prefer the hero to be the one who has the worse starting position. It's just different pacing and narrative structure. The idea is that before Batman, superhero land was a place where overpowered abilities was all that counted. So when Batman uses something that everyone thinks they have(even when they don't) it's easier to root for him than for any other superhero. Him being smarter puts him on even ground, yeah, but there's still this disconnect between intelligence and power that makes watching him take down what seems like an unstoppable threat with his brains very interesting. ...Of course that's not including the comics where the writers are incompetent and try to pass off luck as intelligence. But that's beside the point. And then there are Batman's enemies that aren't stronger than him, but compete with him on a mental level, like the Riddler and the Joker. Their story arcs usually don't involve fights so much as a psychological duel trying to get ahead of each other("I have a hostage" "No I rescued him" "I knew you would so I prepared a fake hostage! You rescued a bomb!" "I knew that and disarmed him!") which is also something that's not always present with Superman stories. Superman stories are usually about the burden of his power, which while interesting on their own right, aren't as interesting to me as Batman's story arcs.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 30, 2013 15:53:29 GMT -5
Of DC's heroes, Batman is basically the most human. He has no superpowers to rely on, but only his tactfulness, combat skills, and his arsenal of weaponry. Because of the fact that he's human and isn't without fault, he is a very interesting character to explore in different fascets. not to be a prick or anything, but it's not like he's the only guy at DC who doesn't have any superpowers. Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) and Green Arrow don't have any superpowers, either. of course all 3 of them are loaded so when you look at it that way none of them are exactly any more relate-able than Superman.
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Jan 30, 2013 16:17:20 GMT -5
Of DC's heroes, Batman is basically the most human. He has no superpowers to rely on, but only his tactfulness, combat skills, and his arsenal of weaponry. Because of the fact that he's human and isn't without fault, he is a very interesting character to explore in different fascets. not to be a prick or anything, but it's not like he's the only guy at DC who doesn't have any superpowers. Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) and Green Arrow don't have any superpowers, either. of course all 3 of them are loaded so when you look at it that way none of them are exactly any more relate-able than Superman. Yeah I'd love to see a comic with a guy on a severely limited budget trying to be a superhero (without powers). I know there was Kick-Ass and "The Jam" (wonder if anyone here ever read that one?) but beyond those it doesn't seem to happen all that much as far as I know.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 30, 2013 17:46:27 GMT -5
not to be a prick or anything, but it's not like he's the only guy at DC who doesn't have any superpowers. Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) and Green Arrow don't have any superpowers, either. of course all 3 of them are loaded so when you look at it that way none of them are exactly any more relate-able than Superman. Yeah I'd love to see a comic with a guy on a severely limited budget trying to be a superhero (without powers). I know there was Kick-Ass and "The Jam" (wonder if anyone here ever read that one?) but beyond those it doesn't seem to happen all that much as far as I know. There are other characters who have been powerless and not millionaires, although they do tend to have gadgets and such of their own. Huntress and The Question come to mind. They do have tools, are super smart, etc., but all are really limited compared to Batman and Green Arrow.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 30, 2013 18:03:14 GMT -5
Same reason Han Solo was more popular than Luke Skywalker. People are cynical, and they gravitate towards cynical characters.
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Blindkarevik
Grimlock
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Post by Blindkarevik on Jan 30, 2013 20:53:46 GMT -5
Basically, Batman is an anti-hero that is heroic to a fault. Basically, all he wants to do is good.. but be as badass as hell while doing it.
Also, as people have said, Batman became as badass as he is by himself. He wasn't gifted with alien powers or mutations or anything... he's just the most badass dude on the planet because one day he decided that would be his end goal.
As much as I want to be Optimus Prime, I'm just not a giant robot. All that's missing from me becoming Batman is to be endlessly wealthy... which, while it isn't probable... it's more probable than waking up one day and being a giant transformable robot.
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Goldenbane
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THE G.D. Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Jan 30, 2013 22:01:51 GMT -5
Basically, Batman is an anti-hero that is heroic to a fault. Basically, all he wants to do is good.. but be as badass as hell while doing it. Also, as people have said, Batman became as badass as he is by himself. He wasn't gifted with alien powers or mutations or anything... he's just the most badass dude on the planet because one day he decided that would be his end goal. As much as I want to be Optimus Prime, I'm just not a giant robot. All that's missing from me becoming Batman is to be endlessly wealthy... which, while it isn't probable... it's more probable than waking up one day and being a giant transformable robot. Ah, but grab a gun and a skull t-shirt and you can be the Punisher right now!! (He's also a powerless character who does heroics while supposedly on a limited budget. Although, I confess that I never understood where he got all his hardware...I figure he took it from the crooks or something like that.)
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Post by xCompackx on Jan 30, 2013 22:29:41 GMT -5
Basically, Batman is an anti-hero that is heroic to a fault. Basically, all he wants to do is good.. but be as badass as hell while doing it. Also, as people have said, Batman became as badass as he is by himself. He wasn't gifted with alien powers or mutations or anything... he's just the most badass dude on the planet because one day he decided that would be his end goal. As much as I want to be Optimus Prime, I'm just not a giant robot. All that's missing from me becoming Batman is to be endlessly wealthy... which, while it isn't probable... it's more probable than waking up one day and being a giant transformable robot. Ah, but grab a gun and a skull t-shirt and you can be the Punisher right now!! (He's also a powerless character who does heroics while supposedly on a limited budget. Although, I confess that I never understood where he got all his hardware...I figure he took it from the crooks or something like that.) Doesn't Punisher have a gun runner or something? I've never read the comics for him lol. But yeah, Batman is awesome just because (especially in the Nolan movies) you could sorta look up to him. Maybe you could with Superman as well, but there's kind of that "You'll never have these powers" thing with him.
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JDviant
Unicron
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Post by JDviant on Jan 31, 2013 7:36:50 GMT -5
The idea is that before Batman, superhero land was a place where overpowered abilities was all that counted. Doesn't the very history of super-hero comics prove this as utterly untrue? Batman debuts in 1938,Superman gets super-hearing in 1939, as well as super-breath. He isn't lifting anything as big as a building until 1940. Can't fly until 1942. The powering up of Superman didn't happen until after Batman has been established. Even the next big thing, Captain Marvel, didn't appear until 1940. That has happened a few times. Plus, Batman has had his back broken, his sidekicks murdered, been outright defeated--it's not brought up by the internet too often, but he has flat out lost against things like the Swamp Thing even when he had prep time. Sometimes, he fails to save as many people as he wants to, much more often than Superman does. He lost to Swamp Thing, who waaaaaaaaaaaay over-powers him, in an issue of Swamp Thing. And he had his back broken? Superman did that first, and better, by going ahead and dying. Both Supergirl and Superboy have been killed, so he loses members of his family. At the end of the day, we all know both of these franchise corporate owned characters are winning.
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darthalexander
Hank Scorpio
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Post by darthalexander on Jan 31, 2013 10:08:29 GMT -5
He lost to Swamp Thing, who waaaaaaaaaaaay over-powers him, in an issue of Swamp Thing. That made me so happy when I read that comic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 10:22:39 GMT -5
I like Batman because there is so much psychologically to study about him, he also is human his rogues gallery is for the most part human and doesn't really overlap with the Justice League's. Superman just seems to me the perfect man who has no faults and I find that hard to believe and with a five exceptions his rogues gallery isn't that impressive. The villains are really what makes the hero The appeal of Superman, at least when he's being handled by someone competent, is that he's an ok person (not a high and mighty one, just a generally good guy) with a slew of powers that allow him to do great things beyond anyone's imagination. He could probably take over the world if he wanted, but his simple decency prevents that. As for him being "perfect", smart Super-writers will allow him to have a temper or the odd snarky remark, at least without turning him into a hypocrite. Also, some writers tend to also give Superman doubt in himself. Not in his worth, but his importance to mankind. He knows of his abilities, but sometimes he actually stops to think whether or not people appreciate it or even if he is doing any good with his actions. It's not to make the Man of Steel emo, but good writers are able to make Superman human. I do agree with Batman being a writer's crutch, but I still consider Batman a more relatable character because, in his situation, the predictaments he can end up in are more believable and likely than Superman, when you know it'll most likely involve Kryptonite or holding somebody he knows hostage.
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