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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 11, 2013 14:21:12 GMT -5
Can you clone items through glitches? No? Oh...I'll stick with the original Gold and Silver then. I hate when companies decide to "correct" games because they don't want you playing outside of the realm that they made possible. This. Makes. No. Sense. I honestly can't, just, I mean, what? There's a wealth of advantageous glitches that were found in all four Gen IV games, released over the course of three years, but even then, I dunno what gripe I'm even dealing with. Are you honestly suggesting that the HG/SS games exist because Nintendo wanted to ghettoize the coding mishaps of a 10 year old game, long since antiquated and unsupported? Was this just a non sequitur I've completely misunderstood?
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Feb 11, 2013 14:49:27 GMT -5
Nooo...what I'm saying is that rereleasing a game and taking out something that you enjoy because it's not something they intended to have to begin with. I don't care about other ridiculous glitches, because the item cloning glitch was probably the only reason I bothered to continue in that game, otherwise I would have left a lot of stuff undone. What's hard to understand about that? What's so special about the rereleased games that make them SO much better than the originals? Because of the look? The gameplay is smoother? Some people enjoy little things and you take away the little things and it completely makes the experience less desirable. I've played Heart Gold and it wasn't the end all greatest Pokemon game ever. Sorry for disagreeing with you.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 11, 2013 14:57:51 GMT -5
Your favourite part of the game is the cheats?
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Feb 11, 2013 15:06:34 GMT -5
One particular cheat made the game a lot less of a pain in the ass. It shaved probably 20 hours off of what I may have had to do. How is that not good?
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Desi
Dennis Stamp
Do Not Approve
Posts: 4,522
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Post by Desi on Feb 11, 2013 16:19:04 GMT -5
Platinum.
I would've picked HeartGold/SoulSilver if it wasn't for its terrible pacing and level jumps.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 11, 2013 16:39:24 GMT -5
One particular cheat made the game a lot less of a pain in the ass. It shaved probably 20 hours off of what I may have had to do. How is that not good? Your original complaint about later games was that they pointlessly prolonged gameplay when there was enough to begin with in Gen I/II, yet apparently still too much for you, as you still needed to shave 20 hours off the originals to make it feel worthwhile, a time count that'd lodge in at anywhere between 9/10ths to 2/3rd of the main game depending on if it's Red/Blue/Yellow, or Gold/Silver/Crystal. Could such a game be one you've ever had that much fondness for in the first place?
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Feb 11, 2013 16:48:51 GMT -5
One particular cheat made the game a lot less of a pain in the ass. It shaved probably 20 hours off of what I may have had to do. How is that not good? Your original complaint about later games was that they pointlessly prolonged gameplay when there was enough to begin with in Gen I/II, yet apparently still too much for you, as you still needed to shave 20 hours off the originals to make it feel worthwhile, a time count that'd lodge in at anywhere between 9/10ths to 2/3rd of the main game depending on if it's Red/Blue/Yellow, or Gold/Silver/Crystal. Could such a game be one you've ever had that much fondness for in the first place? As stated, I made the comment in regards to Blue and Red, those games had the perfect amount. I played the hell out of them and it was all good. There was nothing there where I needed to stop what I was doing in order to take care of something else, it was VERY straightforward , something that you cannot deny or debate. Now, when I get to Gold and Silver, there's a lot of tedious crap that I'd rather not deal with, as also mentioned. The item/Pokemon cloning glitch saved me the trouble of not having to deal with a bunch of random legendary dog chases, as well as being able to clone "happy" Pokemon, therefore saving me the trouble of pulling Chansey in battle for 3 or 4 hours. Maybe SOME people enjoy tedious crap like that, but I do not. If being annoyed by the tedious quests makes my fondness for the games any less, then I guess you'd probably say I'm "not a fan". Maybe that's the direction that 90% of the fanbase may have wanted, but it wasn't for me. Again, I apologize for not meeting your Pokemon standards.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 11, 2013 17:09:44 GMT -5
As stated, I made the comment in regards to Blue and Red, those games had the perfect amount. I played the hell out of them and it was all good. There was nothing there where I needed to stop what I was doing in order to take care of something else, it was VERY straightforward , something that you cannot deny or debate. Now, when I get to Gold and Silver, there's a lot of tedious crap that I'd rather not deal with, as also mentioned. The item/Pokemon cloning glitch saved me the trouble of not having to deal with a bunch of random legendary dog chases, as well as being able to clone "happy" Pokemon, therefore saving me the trouble of pulling Chansey in battle for 3 or 4 hours. Maybe SOME people enjoy tedious crap like that, but I do not. If being annoyed by the tedious quests makes my fondness for the games any less, then I guess you'd probably say I'm "not a fan". Maybe that's the direction that 90% of the fanbase may have wanted, but it wasn't for me. Again, I apologize for not meeting your Pokemon standards. Fair point, but what is it in the later games that you find less straightforward? From what I can tell, their 'less straightforward' elements consist of optional extras, such as breeding, berries and whatnot, and even the mandatory assets, like natures or abilities, can be ignored with no hinderance to the gameplay, and in turn, leave the game to be played, more or less, like R/B/Y or G/S/C. I'd posit that the series is, in fact, mostly similar to the games you grew up with, but no accommodate more than one audience, leaving it very accessible to the moneymaking younger crowd, whilst also fostering a depth that rewards long-time followers of the series. As an aside, I recoil at having to qualify my approach, but given the twinge of umbrageness above, I feel it best. This isn't an issue of 'standards' or apologies, or griping. Your view on the series has piqued my curiosity, and I assure you, my line of questioning serves only to sate it.
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Knailsic From Now On
Dennis Stamp
Loneliest Number Since #1
Waiting with my red eyes and my stone heart
Posts: 4,365
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Post by Knailsic From Now On on Feb 11, 2013 17:10:11 GMT -5
Heartgold, so many of favorite Pokemon things are in that game, it had great reply value, LOVED the music, and it was awesome having your Mon follow you around.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Feb 11, 2013 17:37:02 GMT -5
Fair point, but what is it in the later games that you find less straightforward? From what I can tell, their 'less straightforward' elements consist of optional extras, such as breeding, berries and whatnot, and even the mandatory assets, like natures or abilities, can be ignored with no hinderance to the gameplay, and in turn, leave the game to be played, more or less, like R/B/Y or G/S/C. I'd posit that the series is, in fact, mostly similar to the games you grew up with, but no accommodate more than one audience, leaving it very accessible to the moneymaking younger crowd, whilst also fostering a depth that rewards long-time followers of the series. As an aside, I recoil at having to qualify my approach, but given the twinge of umbrageness above, I feel it best. This isn't an issue of 'standards' or apologies, or griping. Your view on the series has piqued my curiosity, and I assure you, my line of questioning serves only to sate it. Gold and Silver probably doubled the amount of time you need to spend on the game. Granted, some of it was story based and to that extent, I like that. But, they just went too far with the variety of things you needed to do in order to fill your Pokedex (remember the tagline is "catch them all") and while it's fun, the replay value isn't there for me because I know how much work I'd have to do. Those "one and done" games just don't do it for me, so I'll take simplicity (at least as simple as Blue and Red can be considered) because I'm more likely to go back to it if it's a lot of fun. That's just what I grew up with. I'm not saying that the series is bad or anything, but it became more complicated than it needed to be for me. And then I see people who get obsessed over getting a shiny Pokemon, which as least when I played, it didn't hold much value, outside of bragging rights. And there is to an extent, a level of nostalgia. Even when Gold and Silver came out, I just really had some gripes over the amount of "ugly looking Pokemon". They looked cheaply drawn and there were passed off as "cool" because they had stats or moves that were good. Unown was stupid. Smeargle was annoyingly useless if you wanted to copy good moves (good luck, since it falls on roulette of what the opponent will use), most baby Pokemon were just fillers and only worthwhile for a move you couldn't otherwise learn. Again, gimmicks like that shouldn't dictate the Pokemon itself. Even while I hated Ditto in the originals, they at least rectified that by making it a dirty whore in Gold and Silver. There's good and bad stuff, and I would love to have a game that's set in the original version aka; 150 Pokemon, however you have a very expansive game in terms of leagues and environments. Personally, I just think any more than 150 Pokemon to collect in one game is too much to ask if you're looking for replayable value. I like Fire Red and Leaf Green do that, but still...there's little quirks about the originals that make them vastly more entertaining as opposed to their suped up versions. Personally speaking, the only thing that Nintendo could do to entice me back into the Pokemon circle is to take my advice on making it a home console version. Instead of the random encounters (you actually go on safari-like adventure (in a way like Pokemon snap, but not on a track). It can still have the random encounters feel, but it's more involved in the sense that it's more than a flashing screen.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Feb 11, 2013 17:52:41 GMT -5
mizerable, not for nothing, but it sounds to me like you aren't much of an RPG fan, because the things you are complaining about were the things done to make the series even more of an RPG.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Feb 11, 2013 18:15:47 GMT -5
mizerable, not for nothing, but it sounds to me like you aren't much of an RPG fan, because the things you are complaining about were the things done to make the series even more of an RPG. I'm actually a pretty big RPG guy, not so much newer games, but I can enjoy a nice long drawn out game. What I was referring to, was some of the more complex and pointless things that I felt they shoehorned into the games. I don't need a simple game, but Jesus Christ the hoops that I felt they put in those other games...it just turned me off. Give me the new games, but with the old Pokemon and such and I'd probably be okay with it.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Feb 11, 2013 18:21:42 GMT -5
mizerable, not for nothing, but it sounds to me like you aren't much of an RPG fan, because the things you are complaining about were the things done to make the series even more of an RPG. I'm actually a pretty big RPG guy, not so much newer games, but I can enjoy a nice long drawn out game. What I was referring to, was some of the more complex and pointless things that I felt they shoehorned into the games. I don't need a simple game, but Jesus Christ the hoops that I felt they put in those other games...it just turned me off. Give me the new games, but with the old Pokemon and such and I'd probably be okay with it. But they had to put new Pokemon and new game mechanics in. Otherwise the series would've stagnated.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Feb 11, 2013 18:30:44 GMT -5
But they had to put new Pokemon and new game mechanics in. Otherwise the series would've stagnated. It's not that they put them in, and I understand that they tried to be clever with evolving and such, but some of the mechanics of those were just plain stupid. What's funny is I remember after Red and Blue, I remember "designing" the sequel, and some of the designs I came up with were actually better than what Gold and Silver had to offer. Nothing wrong with where they took the games, just not what I would have wanted.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 11, 2013 19:23:52 GMT -5
I imagine the debate'll get even more circular, but I do recall thinking that Dragon Warrior Monsters seemed like a more fleshy, substantial Pokemon game than R/B/Y/G/S/C. Lofty praise for what is, by all accounts, Enix's cash-grab to lean in on the Pocket Monster market.
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Feb 11, 2013 21:17:09 GMT -5
The funny part about complaining about G/S/C mons while praising R/B/Y ones are that a large majority of Gen II pokemon are leftover/unused designs from Red and Blue.
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