SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on May 14, 2013 20:27:25 GMT -5
WWE isn't pushing one indy darling and the IWC gets mad.
Truth is Cesaro is boring. Good in a pure wrestling company like ROH and can be utilized well in a company that appreciates good wrestling (CHIKARA) but WWE? No, The guy is bland all he has going for him is the fact he's a good wrestler but that doesn't get you over in WWE.
Management is right. Cesaro is boring and the live fans feel the same way. Good move.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on May 14, 2013 20:42:15 GMT -5
Yes, and failed to live up to expectations, yet they were protected much more and their 'bouts' of losing didn't go on nearly as long. Will Cesaro bounce back? Possibly. But it won't be nearly as soon as those guys did, if at all. I'll also go so far as to say Cesaro got more response from the crowd than either guy did in their first year. here's a link: www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/bios/j/jack-swagger/take a look at Jack's 2012 he spent more time losing than Cesaro had been on TV By my calculations, Swagger beats out Cesaro 27 losses to 36 losses, based on your argument. Oh and of those 27 losses, most of which were in multi-man or tag matches for Swagger. It certainly was his worst bout of losing, but this was after his...what? 3rd time failing to get over?
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on May 14, 2013 20:45:10 GMT -5
WWE isn't pushing one indy darling and the IWC gets mad. Truth is Cesaro is boring. Good in a pure wrestling company like ROH and can be utilized well in a company that appreciates good wrestling (CHIKARA) but WWE? No, The guy is bland all he has going for him is the fact he's a good wrestler but that doesn't get you over in WWE. Management is right. Cesaro is boring and the live fans feel the same way. Good move. Except that he was getting over. He was getting just as much of a reaction as any other non main eventer and putting on dope matches. He has personality, hell, he just cut an awesome promo last week.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on May 14, 2013 20:50:07 GMT -5
I actually wasn't a fan of D-Mac during his initial push...and I really can't think of anyone who was. Unlike Cesaro, his ring work back during that push was not very good. "Punch punch punch DDT" was pretty much a whole match of his. Honestly he didn't get interesting until his matches got better, like vs Matt Hardy and Elimination Chamber 2011. There was also that Kelly Kelly angle, which was yes horribly acted, really lit a fire under him. It wasn't even until Elimination Chamber that people turned around with him...then promptly after that match he stopped being featured regularly until 3MB. He was still lighting up the show on Superstars though, but his gimmick was basically dead by then.
It's basically the same deal with Cesaro. I've ALWAYS liked his in-ring work, but his actual gimmicks are kind of, well, dumb (yodeling, evil foreign guy who speaks 5 languages) or never really got explored at all (foreign guy who loves America but hates Americans). He's good, and I do like his matches a ton, but it's gonna take more than being a really good wrestler to be a star in WWE, ask Dean Malenko and Lance Storm. He needs an actual good gimmick that connects with the crowds.
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Post by Hit Girl on May 14, 2013 20:52:09 GMT -5
He's boring due to the confines of the character that management has inflicted on him. Of course it's probably much easier for WWE to blame the tedium on the performer and accept no responsibility for their own part in causing that tedium based on their creative decisions.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on May 14, 2013 21:52:53 GMT -5
WWE isn't pushing one indy darling and the IWC gets mad. Truth is Cesaro is boring. Good in a pure wrestling company like ROH and can be utilized well in a company that appreciates good wrestling (CHIKARA) but WWE? No, The guy is bland all he has going for him is the fact he's a good wrestler but that doesn't get you over in WWE. Management is right. Cesaro is boring and the live fans feel the same way. Good move. You literally have no concept of what you're talking about. You're also speaking in absolutes in lieu of an opinion. Three years ago, people like you thought Daniel Bryan was a glorified boring indy guy, and mocked people who saw a talented base, and knew, with the right opportunity, he'd succeed in SPITE of WWE's booking and writing short-comings. And he proved those people wrong. Same people said the same thing about Rollins and Ambrose -- and yet, WWE stuck with them, and they got over, because talent always rises to the top when given proper effort and opportunity. And the "Indy darling" thing is an asinine strawman. People aren't mad because big bad WWE is not pushing an indy guy. They're angry that a guy infinitely more talented than most of the people who get pushes is getting shafted without given proper chance to actually succeed or fail on his own merit. WWE never gave up on initial "boring" acts like Randy Orton, Hunter Hearst Helmsley and Ringmaster. And that all worked out in their favor. I can't imagine how many superstars would have been left in limbo if WWE's terrible booking style existed in prior eras.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on May 14, 2013 22:21:30 GMT -5
WWE isn't pushing one indy darling and the IWC gets mad. Truth is Cesaro is boring. Good in a pure wrestling company like ROH and can be utilized well in a company that appreciates good wrestling (CHIKARA) but WWE? No, The guy is bland all he has going for him is the fact he's a good wrestler but that doesn't get you over in WWE. Management is right. Cesaro is boring and the live fans feel the same way. Good move. You literally have no concept of what you're talking about. You're also speaking in absolutes in lieu of an opinion. Three years ago, people like you thought Daniel Bryan was a glorified boring indy guy, and mocked people who saw a talented base, and knew, with the right opportunity, he'd succeed in SPITE of WWE's booking and writing short-comings. And he proved those people wrong. Same people said the same thing about Rollins and Ambrose -- and yet, WWE stuck with them, and they got over, because talent always rises to the top when given proper effort and opportunity. Daniel Bryan is also boring. Incredibly overrated. Castagnoli is a good worker that's it. Wrestling fans don't want good matches (Except smarks)
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Chuck Conry
Dennis Stamp
zombies DON'T Run
Posts: 3,738
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Post by Chuck Conry on May 14, 2013 22:22:17 GMT -5
Best way to fix this is with this... ![](http://relivehiphop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Chris-Hero-Kings-of-Wrestling.jpg)
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on May 14, 2013 22:28:06 GMT -5
You literally have no concept of what you're talking about. You're also speaking in absolutes in lieu of an opinion. Three years ago, people like you thought Daniel Bryan was a glorified boring indy guy, and mocked people who saw a talented base, and knew, with the right opportunity, he'd succeed in SPITE of WWE's booking and writing short-comings. And he proved those people wrong. Same people said the same thing about Rollins and Ambrose -- and yet, WWE stuck with them, and they got over, because talent always rises to the top when given proper effort and opportunity. Daniel Bryan is also boring. Incredibly overrated. Castagnoli is a good worker that's it. Wrestling fans don't want good matches (Except smarks) Overrated by who? You? Random guy on message board? Bryan is widely thought of as being one of the best wrestlers in the world AND he's now wildly popular with the bulk of WWE's target market. He's a success on both fronts. Your opinion on him is statistically insignificant.
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tms
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,901
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Post by tms on May 14, 2013 22:28:27 GMT -5
You literally have no concept of what you're talking about. You're also speaking in absolutes in lieu of an opinion. Three years ago, people like you thought Daniel Bryan was a glorified boring indy guy, and mocked people who saw a talented base, and knew, with the right opportunity, he'd succeed in SPITE of WWE's booking and writing short-comings. And he proved those people wrong. Same people said the same thing about Rollins and Ambrose -- and yet, WWE stuck with them, and they got over, because talent always rises to the top when given proper effort and opportunity. Daniel Bryan is also boring. Incredibly overrated. Castagnoli is a good worker that's it. Wrestling fans don't want good matches (Except smarks) Is this a troll post? Wrestling fans don't want good matches?
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on May 14, 2013 22:29:22 GMT -5
Well it's not like he's going to be fired. As long as I get to see him wrestle regularly, I'm good. And it's not like there's much upside to holding the US title these days anyway.
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Post by Starshine on May 14, 2013 22:46:13 GMT -5
You literally have no concept of what you're talking about. You're also speaking in absolutes in lieu of an opinion. Three years ago, people like you thought Daniel Bryan was a glorified boring indy guy, and mocked people who saw a talented base, and knew, with the right opportunity, he'd succeed in SPITE of WWE's booking and writing short-comings. And he proved those people wrong. Same people said the same thing about Rollins and Ambrose -- and yet, WWE stuck with them, and they got over, because talent always rises to the top when given proper effort and opportunity. Daniel Bryan is also boring. Incredibly overrated. Castagnoli is a good worker that's it. Wrestling fans don't want good matches (Except smarks) Yeah, and I'm sure Wrestlemania sells out for the promos.
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Post by Stone Cold Eleanor Shellstrop on May 14, 2013 22:51:42 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan is also boring. Incredibly overrated. Castagnoli is a good worker that's it. Wrestling fans don't want good matches (Except smarks) Yeah, and I'm sure Wrestlemania sells out for the promos. I buy Wrestlemania just for the Undertaker's entrance. Doesn't everyone else?* *I do not in fact buy Wrestlemania just for the Undertaker's entrance.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 14, 2013 23:04:30 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Cesaro but I gotta say that his WWE run has sucked and it's not completely on the writing either. It's MOSTLY on the writing but his awkward promos and mannerisms aren't helping much to add to the character they were trying to build.
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on May 14, 2013 23:06:02 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan is also boring. Incredibly overrated. Castagnoli is a good worker that's it. Wrestling fans don't want good matches (Except smarks) Overrated by who? You? Random guy on message board? Bryan is widely thought of as being one of the best wrestlers in the world AND he's now wildly popular with the bulk of WWE's target market. He's a success on both fronts. Your opinion on him is statistically insignificant. Daniel Bryan has always been extremely overrated even back in his ROH days. He's really really bland luckily he found something in WWE to make him tolerable but I'm not a fan at all. IWC overrates him massively. "Best in the world" proves that. Daniel Bryan is also boring. Incredibly overrated. Castagnoli is a good worker that's it. Wrestling fans don't want good matches (Except smarks) Is this a troll post? Wrestling fans don't want good matches? I don't troll. What I mean is someone doesn't care if there is a technical masterpiece every week. They don't want that, that's why wrestlers like Benoit and Bret Hart aren't on the same level as Stone Cold, Rock, Hogan etc. Being a great wrestler hasn't mean anything since the 80's it's not a draw anymore. Daniel Bryan is also boring. Incredibly overrated. Castagnoli is a good worker that's it. Wrestling fans don't want good matches (Except smarks) Yeah, and I'm sure Wrestlemania sells out for the promos. WrestleMania sells out because it's a spectacle and popularity of the wrestlers. If WrestleMania 30's main event was Cesaro Vs Daniel Bryan who would care? The undercard could even have KENTA Vs CM Punk which would be an amazing match. Nobody cares about that though. A good quality wrestling match isn't what people want anymore
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on May 14, 2013 23:26:03 GMT -5
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Post by Society of the Spectacle on May 14, 2013 23:27:32 GMT -5
Overrated by who? You? Random guy on message board? Bryan is widely thought of as being one of the best wrestlers in the world AND he's now wildly popular with the bulk of WWE's target market. He's a success on both fronts. Your opinion on him is statistically insignificant. Daniel Bryan has always been extremely overrated even back in his ROH days. He's really really bland luckily he found something in WWE to make him tolerable but I'm not a fan at all. IWC overrates him massively. "Best in the world" proves that. Is this a troll post? Wrestling fans don't want good matches? I don't troll. What I mean is someone doesn't care if there is a technical masterpiece every week. They don't want that, that's why wrestlers like Benoit and Bret Hart aren't on the same level as Stone Cold, Rock, Hogan etc. Being a great wrestler hasn't mean anything since the 80's it's not a draw anymore. Yeah, and I'm sure Wrestlemania sells out for the promos. WrestleMania sells out because it's a spectacle and popularity of the wrestlers. If WrestleMania 30's main event was Cesaro Vs Daniel Bryan who would care? The undercard could even have KENTA Vs CM Punk which would be an amazing match. Nobody cares about that though. A good quality wrestling match isn't what people want anymore This is one of the reasons I think message boards taint the wrestling experience for a lot of people these days. I mean, I do indeed respect your opinion, and you are of course entitled to it, but I mean regardless of who you are talking about, this post just comes off very cynical and mean. I mean, yeah maybe I'm biased as a Bryan fan, but "He's really really bland luckily he found something in WWE to make him tolerable but I'm not a fan at all. IWC overrates him massively." .....Just has this weird sense of bitterness to it. I mean, yeah, hey sometimes the "IWC" sickens me too being cynical in the opposite direction (which I'm guessing you're indirectly reacting to.) But I mean, in terms of people like Bryan and Cesaro being good wrestlers, you know who does care about good wrestling? The actual wrestlers. If you recall, the year HBK/Taker had their first WM encounter, WWE.com had an article at the end of the year ranking the best of the matches according to the boys themselves. Of course HBK/UT took first, but Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler at Bragging Rights either shared first place or took second (I forget.) This was before Bryan "got lucky" with "YES!" and his gimmick was called "bland good wrestler" by many on here.
In the somewhat of the same way, I don't know if you have noticed but several of the WWE superstars have been sporting Cesaro's WWE shirt; Punk, Bryan, Regal, and Langston to name a few. They know Cesaro is talented and not boring, and of course that won't always manifest in popularity, but if these guys who actually do the things we talk about on here see something in Cesaro, I would think we should trust their judgement a little bit.
Cesaro hasn't been done any favors lately, but I think he's doing what he needs to do. He's having a great matches with everyone. By having great matches with everyone, he shows he has worth. People who have enjoyed Cesaro's work know he has more to offer, but I think the mere fact that he's definitely going to be sticking around because of his wrestling talent guarantees that he likely going to be given a few chances to succeed. I mean, Bryan before MITB was basically in somewhat of the same position, except as a face. He was getting beat left and right, and then suddenly, he was given a good hard push and a reason to be around the upper mid card, and look at him now. "Overrated" or not, it's no coincidence that he has been working with major stars like Cena, Taker, and Kane. I forsee a similar path for Cesaro. It's just going to take some time, plus some work from Cesaro and those behind the curtain.
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Post by Error on May 14, 2013 23:28:17 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Cesaro but I gotta say that his WWE run has sucked and it's not completely on the writing either. It's MOSTLY on the writing but his awkward promos and mannerisms aren't helping much to add to the character they were trying to build. When every thing but the mannerisms are scripted how can it not be on them? You cannot turn shit to gold. Pick any guy you want and they couldn't make the stuff he got (outside of the short lived Immigrant American that hates Americans which I think was working before they dropped it because of Swagger) work. Honestly the fact they still script this stuff is insane. When you're biggest stars all got over via things they did that writers had nothing to do with originally, why not let them have freedom?
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 14, 2013 23:32:45 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Cesaro but I gotta say that his WWE run has sucked and it's not completely on the writing either. It's MOSTLY on the writing but his awkward promos and mannerisms aren't helping much to add to the character they were trying to build. When every thing but the mannerisms are scripted how can it not be on them? You cannot turn shit to gold. Pick any guy you want and they couldn't make the stuff he got (outside of the short lived Immigrant American that hates Americans which I think was working before they dropped it because of Swagger) work. Honestly the fact they still script this stuff is insane. When you're biggest stars all got over via things they did that writers had nothing to do with originally, why not let them have freedom? Delivery is something they can't control and he's been completely lackluster in that department. Honestly I feel like that's been a problem of his even in the indy days. There was the time they tried to make him a serious heel in Chikara and it was just awkward more than anything. Side-bar: Weren't Rock's promos written by Gerwirtz? Or whatever his name is?
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Post by Error on May 14, 2013 23:53:28 GMT -5
When every thing but the mannerisms are scripted how can it not be on them? You cannot turn shit to gold. Pick any guy you want and they couldn't make the stuff he got (outside of the short lived Immigrant American that hates Americans which I think was working before they dropped it because of Swagger) work. Honestly the fact they still script this stuff is insane. When you're biggest stars all got over via things they did that writers had nothing to do with originally, why not let them have freedom? Delivery is something they can't control and he's been completely lackluster in that department. Honestly I feel like that's been a problem of his even in the indy days. There was the time they tried to make him a serious heel in Chikara and it was just awkward more than anything. Side-bar: Weren't Rock's promos written by Gerwirtz? Or whatever his name is? On the first, I thought his serious stuff in Chikara was good but yeah, he was awkward in ROH with his heel stuff. I honestly think he is a much better face. I do agree that needs to be worked on but my point is the best cannot take bad stuff and make it work and someone who is midrange at the stuff definitely cannot make shit work. If they had given him more time to develop the Immigrant thing or given him something with potential and give him time, he could make it decent, IMO. On the Rock thing, I think they worked together on it. My point was if they didn't turn to Rocky Miavia and say "We got nothing. What do you have?" there might never have been a Rock for Gerwitz to write for/with. Same for Austin, Cena, Bryan and countless others. I am not saying let them create their own gimmicks or what have you but give them the freedom to improvise or have more of an input on their characters.
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