Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
Posts: 4,785
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Post by Dat Dude on May 18, 2013 10:09:56 GMT -5
...years back? I still scratch my head about her short title reign and why it just abruptly ended. Was there any rumors floating around that she rubbed people backstage the wrong way? Was it simply a case of management thinking that Eve at the time was more over than her? It's always seems weird how she been booked over the years considering on paper she's everything you could ever want from a female performer. Was there anything reported/rumored about a political reason for her handling by bookers?
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on May 18, 2013 10:13:39 GMT -5
The only thing I've heard in the way of rumors is probably just people speculating that WWE doesn't like Natalya's looks or Vince was mad at the Harts that week. I wouldn't put too much stock into those explanations.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on May 18, 2013 10:36:29 GMT -5
The closest thing I remember was something to do with the Hart Dynasty. Thats also when Hornswoggle AA'd Tyson Kidd, and I can't remember if anything embarassing happened to DH then. Probably, considering he did nothing after that split.
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,621
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Post by PKO on May 18, 2013 11:01:56 GMT -5
When Michelle McCool did those videos on the other divas, when talking about Natalya and their Tables match she said “I remember fighting like crazy for Nattie to get the spotlight in that match, because not everybody was fighting for that". Thats when Nattie was champion as well. I've read a couple people saying she's too nice for her own good, maybe that's part of her downfall.
As for putting the title on Eve, management loved Eve and they had her do promotional stuff in the lead up for Wrestlemania so I guess they wanted the title on her for that. The title change not making any sense storyline-wise and Eve being a worse wrestler and not as over as Natalya as a face didn't really matter clearly.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on May 18, 2013 11:02:20 GMT -5
Only thing I remember hearing is she annoys people backstage so no one really cares to try and help her out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 12:18:07 GMT -5
The closest thing I remember was something to do with the Hart Dynasty. Thats also when Hornswoggle AA'd Tyson Kidd, and I can't remember if anything embarassing happened to DH then. Probably, considering he did nothing after that split. Was that around the same time as Cole just killing the Dynasty on commentary? Called both out for being boring, at least Kidd responded, Harry just sat there and took it. Natalya is super talented, but I can see why WWE doesn't push her. WWE LOVES facial expressions, and Natalya is, imo, really bad in that department.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 12:47:05 GMT -5
She isn't a really good actor and is so-so charismatic. If it wasn't for her family name no one would care about her.
Acting and presence are IMO more important for womens wrestling than actual in-ring ability because girls get only so much time to show off. It's hard to wrestle a memorable classic in 5 minutes, but with good acting & showing character people might actually connect with the wrestler.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on May 18, 2013 12:51:33 GMT -5
She isn't a really good actor and is so-so charismatic. If it wasn't for her family name no one would care about her. Acting and presence are IMO more important for womens wrestling than actual in-ring ability because girls get only so much time to show off. It's hard to wrestle a memorable classic in 5 minutes, but with good acting & showing character people might actually connect with the wrestler. Because Eve was a much better actor and showed more charisma at that time, right?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 14:52:02 GMT -5
She isn't a really good actor and is so-so charismatic. If it wasn't for her family name no one would care about her. Acting and presence are IMO more important for womens wrestling than actual in-ring ability because girls get only so much time to show off. It's hard to wrestle a memorable classic in 5 minutes, but with good acting & showing character people might actually connect with the wrestler. Because Eve was a much better actor and showed more charisma at that time, right? Yes. Just shows you how bad Nattie was. And even if she wasn't they saw that Nattie isn't connecting so they went to the next Diva in hopes of a better result.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on May 18, 2013 15:04:03 GMT -5
Because Eve was a much better actor and showed more charisma at that time, right? Yes. Just shows you how bad Nattie was. And even if she wasn't they saw that Nattie isn't connecting so they went to the next Diva in hopes of a better result. So if acting skills and charisma are so important for a diva, and Eve had more than Natalya, then why was she coming out to crickets all the time while Natalya was getting decent pops? Why did Eve spend her entire time as champion doing absolutely nothing, until they jobbed her out to one of the Bellas for the title? It's just interesting that someone that supposedly has so much upside, was getting worse reactions than someone that "if it wasn't for her last name no one would care about her".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 15:13:49 GMT -5
Yes. Just shows you how bad Nattie was. And even if she wasn't they saw that Nattie isn't connecting so they went to the next Diva in hopes of a better result. So if acting skills and charisma are so important for a diva, and Eve had more than Natalya, then why was she coming out to crickets all the time while Natalya was getting decent pops? Why did Eve spend her entire time as champion doing absolutely nothing, until they jobbed her out to one of the Bellas for the title? It's just interesting that someone that supposedly has so much upside, was getting worse reactions than someone that "if it wasn't for her last name no one would care about her". Oh those vintage Nattie pops. People use that as staple for years to come. She was getting a reaction because of who her family was and because they had the ripoff Bret Hart music. But even that came to an end once it became obvious that other than pink color and history they had nothing to offer. Kidd & Smith just like Natalya are the generic presets for Create a Wrestler in a videogame. They went with Eve and although she was better than Natalya, crowd was not given a true reason to care about her (something Hart's had because of their family) so they went to the next person. From that moment on Eve improved hugely and was an awesome heel after the whole hoeski thing that got booed whenever she even moved an eyebrow while at the same time Natalya did nothing in character department before being put in the comedy spots with Khali.
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on May 18, 2013 15:17:54 GMT -5
Because she loves Tyson enough not to blow Ace?
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on May 18, 2013 15:30:09 GMT -5
So if acting skills and charisma are so important for a diva, and Eve had more than Natalya, then why was she coming out to crickets all the time while Natalya was getting decent pops? Why did Eve spend her entire time as champion doing absolutely nothing, until they jobbed her out to one of the Bellas for the title? It's just interesting that someone that supposedly has so much upside, was getting worse reactions than someone that "if it wasn't for her last name no one would care about her". Oh those vintage Nattie pops. People use that as staple for years to come. She was getting a reaction because of who her family was and because they had the ripoff Bret Hart music. But even that came to an end once it became obvious that other than pink color and history they had nothing to offer. Kidd & Smith just like Natalya are the generic presets for Create a Wrestler in a videogame. They went with Eve and although she was better than Natalya, crowd was not given a true reason to care about her (something Hart's had because of their family) so they went to the next person. From that moment on Eve improved hugely and was an awesome heel after the whole hoeski thing that got booed whenever she even moved an eyebrow while at the same time Natalya did nothing in character department before being put in the comedy spots with Khali. Lol at the crowd only liked him/her because of X. That's one of the worst arguments that seems to constantly come up on the internet. And it's kind of a double standard when you're going on about how Even didn't get a reaction because the crowd wasn't given a reason to care about her, but then you turn around and say when Eve turned heel she did great, but it's Natalya's fault that she can't get over when not given anything to do. One girl get's a main event storyline on Raw with 3 of the biggest stars on the roster at the time, while the other gets a farting gimmick on Smackdown. I wonder which one is more likely to get over.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on May 18, 2013 15:45:38 GMT -5
Oh those vintage Nattie pops. People use that as staple for years to come. She was getting a reaction because of who her family was and because they had the ripoff Bret Hart music. But even that came to an end once it became obvious that other than pink color and history they had nothing to offer. Kidd & Smith just like Natalya are the generic presets for Create a Wrestler in a videogame. They went with Eve and although she was better than Natalya, crowd was not given a true reason to care about her (something Hart's had because of their family) so they went to the next person. From that moment on Eve improved hugely and was an awesome heel after the whole hoeski thing that got booed whenever she even moved an eyebrow while at the same time Natalya did nothing in character department before being put in the comedy spots with Khali. Lol at the crowd only liked him/her because of X. That's one of the worst arguments that seems to constantly come up on the internet. And it's kind of a double standard when you're going on about how Even didn't get a reaction because the crowd wasn't given a reason to care about her, but then you turn around and say when Eve turned heel she did great, but it's Natalya's fault that she can't get over when not given anything to do.One girl get's a main event storyline on Raw with 3 of the biggest stars on the roster at the time, while the other gets a farting gimmick on Smackdown. I wonder which one is more likely to get over. Technically, Natalya also got her heel turn as well with Beth, and plenty of screen time, and people still didn't really care. Post-Mickie James, the only divas that got legitmately over as a face were Kelly Kelly and AJ and as heels were LayCool and Eve. That said, it was BS that she got the rugged pulled from under her. But frankly, that's the nature of the Diva Division. Whoever gets pushed is legitimately whoever is the flavor of the week for management.
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gl83
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,046
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Post by gl83 on May 18, 2013 15:53:42 GMT -5
So if acting skills and charisma are so important for a diva, and Eve had more than Natalya, then why was she coming out to crickets all the time while Natalya was getting decent pops? Why did Eve spend her entire time as champion doing absolutely nothing, until they jobbed her out to one of the Bellas for the title? It's just interesting that someone that supposedly has so much upside, was getting worse reactions than someone that "if it wasn't for her last name no one would care about her". Oh those vintage Nattie pops. People use that as staple for years to come. She was getting a reaction because of who her family was and because they had the ripoff Bret Hart music. But even that came to an end once it became obvious that other than pink color and history they had nothing to offer. Kidd & Smith just like Natalya are the generic presets for Create a Wrestler in a videogame. They went with Eve and although she was better than Natalya, crowd was not given a true reason to care about her (something Hart's had because of their family) so they went to the next person. From that moment on Eve improved hugely and was an awesome heel after the whole hoeski thing that got booed whenever she even moved an eyebrow while at the same time Natalya did nothing in character department before being put in the comedy spots with Khali. I think you're mistaking the time period. Eve's Heel turn didn't come about until a year later and only after a bunch of failed Face pushes. After Eve got the title, she still wasn't over at all and still got zero reaction. And her title reign was the definition of pointless seeing as how she did a bunch of nothing with the title afterwards, wasn't involved in any feuds really until she dropped the title on a random episode of Raw and her WrestleMania involvement that year was basically as a prop for the Rock. The only thing notable about Eve's title reign was Michael Cole verbally burying the Divas and crapping on all of her matches.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on May 18, 2013 15:55:46 GMT -5
Lol at the crowd only liked him/her because of X. That's one of the worst arguments that seems to constantly come up on the internet. And it's kind of a double standard when you're going on about how Even didn't get a reaction because the crowd wasn't given a reason to care about her, but then you turn around and say when Eve turned heel she did great, but it's Natalya's fault that she can't get over when not given anything to do.One girl get's a main event storyline on Raw with 3 of the biggest stars on the roster at the time, while the other gets a farting gimmick on Smackdown. I wonder which one is more likely to get over. Technically, Natalya also got her heel turn as well with Beth, and plenty of screen time, and people still didn't really care. Eve getting over wasn't just about the heel turn. It was about being made to look important. Natalya and Beth did get a heel turn, but the WWE didn't do much with it. Natalya spent pretty much every week jobbing to K2 or Eve via roll up in minute long matches. Though Beth did eventually get a title reign, which was something for her, Natalya then spent every week jobbing to someone while constantly switching back and forth between face and heel before finally becoming a face after the farting gimmick.
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Post by dicecasden on May 18, 2013 15:58:31 GMT -5
How about this: People realized her last name is 'Neidhart' and not 'Hart'
Kidding aside, because of how Eve was 'loved' by management and how her departure earlier this year was so 'sudden', I'll just assume she demanded to be used more prominently or else she'd walk.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on May 18, 2013 16:13:35 GMT -5
When Michelle McCool did those videos on the other divas, when talking about Natalya and their Tables match she said “I remember fighting like crazy for Nattie to get the spotlight in that match, because not everybody was fighting for that". Thats when Nattie was champion as well. I've read a couple people saying she's too nice for her own good, maybe that's part of her downfall. As for putting the title on Eve, management loved Eve and they had her do promotional stuff in the lead up for Wrestlemania so I guess they wanted the title on her for that. The title change not making any sense storyline-wise and Eve being a worse wrestler and not as over as Natalya as a face didn't really matter clearly. Pretty much on both marks. Even when she had the farting gimmick, she had zero complaints; in fact, I recall her actively defending it on Twitter. "Too nice for her own good" is a good way to put it: She's kinda like Cena in that she won't turn down an angle or back talk management, but in her case, it's worse. Rather than not turning down a push she doesn't need, she isn't fighting for a push she's overdue for. Same with Eve. She's their promotional chick. Add to that, they weren't interested, for whatever reason in putting the title on anyone else (Michelle had a foot outside the door already and virtually everyone else was an afterthought) so they went with their ambassador of sorts.
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 18, 2013 16:19:56 GMT -5
It is weird. Technically speaking, Nattie is as good or better then many of her male counterparts, but nothing seems to be done with her. She wrestles differently from the other girls, in that she is actually like a wrestler, and not a random woman fighting.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on May 18, 2013 16:56:25 GMT -5
It is weird. Technically speaking, Nattie is as good or better then many of her male counterparts, but nothing seems to be done with her. She wrestles differently from the other girls, in that she is actually like a wrestler, and not a random woman fighting. She is really the only Diva whose matches I actually enjoy watching.
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