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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 16:53:08 GMT -5
Without going into painstaking detail of what I thought of the movie—it was a bombastic and garish piece of meatbag propaganda that gleefully twisted my clearly stated goals of improving humanity by saving you from yourselves—
I felt like the film was actually a step backwards when it came to characters:
The Captain America of post-The Winter Soldier wouldn’t be so nonchalant about the search for a guy he practically died for so as to leave it to someone else, even if it was Sam Wilson. And come on, “you don’t have any plans”? So you’re not going to get right back to searching for that guy who practically gave you a reason to live? You’re not pissed when you raid those Hydra bases who do human experimentation, just like they did on Bucky? Okay.
Tony Stark flying around in a suit of armor again like we didn’t just see about 3 hours of character development that told him he didn’t need to be Iron Man to be a hero, which in turn would’ve made his invention of Ultron in an attempt to redefine himself as even more gut-wrenching when it goes wrong? No Pepper Potts?
The Bruce/Natasha relationship didn’t work at all for me. You mean out of all the things she’s faced: an alien army, highly-trained SHIELD defectors, a cyborg mercenary, a smarmy demigod and Spadertron…she’s making googly eyes at the one guy who scares the shit out of her, has almost killed her and has directly threatened her about turning into an enormous green rage monster?
I mean, nothing really rattles Natasha like The Hulk and yet she’s the one that’s got to calm him down? I call bullshit. That “face your fears to get over them” stuff doesn’t work outside of a controlled environment and hardly anything about The Hulk qualifies as “controlled.”
Honestly, Natasha really should still be scared shitless of The Hulk to the point she probably wouldn’t even want to be in the same room as Banner regardless of what he says. And honestly a responsible Banner really shouldn’t be anywhere near her either, let alone be the one sent to save her…really could’ve been something for Hawkeye to do…which…you know, Hawkeye really should’ve been given something outside of being “the family man” as to provide a cover for whenever they have to write him out of something. Why no references to him being Hard-of-Hearing?
Actually, I’m glad Joss Whedon isn’t doing these movies anymore. Dude’s been coasting off Buffy goodwill for nearly 20 years now and nobody cares how clever he is for sneaking in yet another insult to women or confusing banter for character traits. Dude needs to grow.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on May 6, 2015 19:52:05 GMT -5
Movie wasn't bad. Hated how they did Ultron
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on May 6, 2015 20:12:57 GMT -5
AOU completely ignoring IM3 is all good in my book
f*** that movie
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on May 7, 2015 5:11:21 GMT -5
finally saw it yesterday. was a fun little romp. felt like killing Quicksilver was a bit of a waste, and cutting off Cap before he finishes his iconic line was a bad choice. other than that it was definitely a worthy sequel.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 8:11:39 GMT -5
Tony Stark flying around in a suit of armor again like we didn’t just see about 3 hours of character development that told him he didn’t need to be Iron Man to be a hero, which in turn would’ve made his invention of Ultron in an attempt to redefine himself as even more gut-wrenching when it goes wrong? No Pepper Potts? I don't know, when I read that Whedon has undone characterization in these movies, I can't help but wonder if people were actually watching these movies at all. You can certainly disagree or dislike the characterizations on-screen, sure, but to say that they are completely absent or out of nowhere, well, I'm more than a bit suspicious of those claims. And that's just dealing with Iron Man. Unless I’m someone angling for Whedon’s job or powering a death laser by harnessing all negativity on the internet, suspicious of...what? We’re talking about a summer blockbuster not unearthing a grand conspiracy. Y’know, all you did was literally explain the plots of those movies to me and I needed approximately zero percent of that explained. My entire point is post IM3 Tony Stark had the epiphany that he didn’t need the suit to be the hero, which was a point that so many people understood that there was a question if there were even going to be any more solo Iron Man movies. So it’s pretty jarring to me to see none of that color his characterization in The Avengers: The-Utter-Bastardization-Of-The-Most-Well-Intentioned-Plan-To-Preserve-Humanity-Ever.It’s like…Post IM3 Stark putting on the suit again should be an event (positive or negative) but we start the movie with not just Stark in the suit, but him apparently having been suiting up for quite a while? Nah, man. Whedon didn’t earn that character beat. Not after all those movies. Not after the IM3 development. I’m going to need something more than...the...nothing of “Well, Stark’s in the suit again just ‘cuz!”
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 7, 2015 9:26:14 GMT -5
- Cap is awesome. Tony is awesome. Hawkeye is really awesome. I love the development of Hawkeye having a seemingly normal family life outside of Avenging. I think of that as a strength which none of the other heroes have.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on May 7, 2015 10:12:07 GMT -5
Going back to the "getting kicked off twitter" thing. I'm surprised nobody has posted this picture yet (spoilered for language): {Spoiler}https://twitter.com/atlasnodded/status/595349915880038400/photo/1
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 7, 2015 10:59:35 GMT -5
-Still...I want a bad guy who legitimately has the heroes on the ropes and puts absolute dread into their guts. Come on, Thanos. That's the thing for me that I want in a Marvel movie. I feel like none of the villians are serious threats. They get built up usually for having some kind of super weapon but the final confrontation in most of the movies is disappointing. Loki is squashed throughout the first, They kill the hammer guy with the power of friendship in Guardians. Don't get me started on Rourke in Iron Man 2. Granted Ultron had actual fights with a few Avengers but he was still treated like a goof mostly.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on May 7, 2015 11:34:50 GMT -5
-Still...I want a bad guy who legitimately has the heroes on the ropes and puts absolute dread into their guts. Come on, Thanos. That's the thing for me that I want in a Marvel movie. I feel like none of the villians are serious threats. They get built up usually for having some kind of super weapon but the final confrontation in most of the movies is disappointing. Loki is squashed throughout the first, They kill the hammer guy with the power of friendship in Guardians. Don't get me started on Rourke in Iron Man 2. Granted Ultron had actual fights with a few Avengers but he was still treated like a goof mostly. Pardon me for asking but how is reprogramming drones to open fire on civilians and setting up explosives, brainwashing people and unleashing an alien army on New York, and planning planetary genocide on a world not a serious threat?
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 11:55:52 GMT -5
That's the thing for me that I want in a Marvel movie. I feel like none of the villians are serious threats. They get built up usually for having some kind of super weapon but the final confrontation in most of the movies is disappointing. Loki is squashed throughout the first, They kill the hammer guy with the power of friendship in Guardians. Don't get me started on Rourke in Iron Man 2. Granted Ultron had actual fights with a few Avengers but he was still treated like a goof mostly. Pardon me for asking but how is reprogramming drones to open fire on civilians and setting up explosives, brainwashing people and unleashing an alien army on New York, and planning planetary genocide on a world not a serious threat? ...when said threat is cracking those “clever” Whedon one-liners and casual danger dialogue at the worst moments, like when he’s trying to shoot people in the face?
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on May 7, 2015 11:56:57 GMT -5
There was Kurse, who had to be killed with a miniature black hole.
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Post by Hakumental on May 7, 2015 12:12:48 GMT -5
On paper, Ultron causes horrible bedlam, panic, and atrocity.
On screen, there are so many faces booked against the heel that their ability to keep up is never in question. Scarlet Witch's mindgames do a lot more to wobble them than anything Ultron himself does, and once he loses her as an ally, it's back to the prequel trilogy Battle Droids corrupted Iron Legion and a moonshine asteroid. Ultron doesn't fare badly 1v1 against Cap, Tony, Thor, or Vision, but you know he's going to roll out of the ring at the first hope spot, or somebody's going to make the save before he can get the chair shot in.
Basically, I hoped Ultron would be booked like 1997 NWO, but he ended up reminding me more of how Christian was booked against John Cena.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 7, 2015 12:33:08 GMT -5
That's the thing for me that I want in a Marvel movie. I feel like none of the villians are serious threats. They get built up usually for having some kind of super weapon but the final confrontation in most of the movies is disappointing. Loki is squashed throughout the first, They kill the hammer guy with the power of friendship in Guardians. Don't get me started on Rourke in Iron Man 2. Granted Ultron had actual fights with a few Avengers but he was still treated like a goof mostly. Pardon me for asking but how is reprogramming drones to open fire on civilians and setting up explosives, brainwashing people and unleashing an alien army on New York, and planning planetary genocide on a world not a serious threat? Well serious threat to the protagonists. He sets up stumbling blocks but there's never a moment where I felt like Ultron was truly 'in control' of the conflict. Ya know? All of the seriousness of their actions is brushed over or wrapped in a joke so it's not too dark and it sorta takes away all of the impact. Loki was the same deal. For every advantage he got he was immediately smacked down as a joke. The scene where he catches the arrow from Hawkeye is his entire arc in the movie. 'Caught it. Looks strong for half a second before you realize the heroes are way smarter and can beat the villian at any time if they could just get a hold of him.'
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on May 7, 2015 14:18:50 GMT -5
but he ended up reminding me more of how Christian was booked against John Cena. One more movie? One more movie? One more movie? The extended cut to feature a blue dot superimposed over Ultron's face in scenes where he shows up.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 7, 2015 15:15:57 GMT -5
Basically, I hoped Ultron would be booked like 1997 NWO, but he ended up reminding me more of how Christian was booked against John Cena. To be fair, Loki was poopy.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 7, 2015 15:20:42 GMT -5
Also, if we must have the same borderline existential debates here over how strong heroes and villains should look that we do in the WWE section, there better not be any "Let's Go Avengers/Avengers Suck" chants.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 7, 2015 15:40:54 GMT -5
WOW. That was the most condescending and elitist article I've seen in a while, jeez.
It's fine to not like big budget superhero movies, but that read as if he was trying to shame their fans.
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Post by MC Blowfish on May 7, 2015 15:48:54 GMT -5
I made it until right after he got all upset with Ultron destroying humanity to save it. He didn't get it at all.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on May 7, 2015 17:06:55 GMT -5
WOW. That was the most condescending and elitist article I've seen in a while, jeez. It's fine to not like big budget superhero movies, but that read as if he was trying to shame their fans. I don't think he's trying to shame fans. He's asking questions that no one else really is asking at the moment. Beyond the rather simplistic 'is AoU good or bad?' kinds of questions. If fans feel shame, it's because the real world in which these fans and these films exist and live has a lot of problems. Or it is shameful to realize that art, entertainment, politics, and reality are intimately linked while previously one ignored or didn't know about this fact. I liked the movie, I plan to see it again, and I generally agree with what he says. At some points, especially the economic aspects of these films, and with the entertainment industry as an extension of the economic management of life as a whole, I think he doesn't go far enough with his questions. But we also live in a world that often wants to treat movies as 'just movies' or comic books as 'just comic books', so that's why such questions, no matter how uncomfortable they make us, have to be asked, I suppose. And he proceeded to ask those questions in the most obnoxious and pretentious fashion possible.
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Mackenzie Gorn
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Post by Mackenzie Gorn on May 7, 2015 17:14:09 GMT -5
I literally didn't even make it to where he talked about the movies. Got like three lines into his big religious analysis and tapped.
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