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Post by thegame415 on Jul 11, 2013 21:45:27 GMT -5
Here's how I think TNA could've made a noise: A. Brock Lesnar shows up. B. A current top WWE star (Cena, Orton) shows up. C. The Rock shows up and puts over TNA. Any one of those, although highly unlikely, would've given TNA an advantage. TNA should have taken whatever they were paying Bischoff/Hogan+friends and thrown it at Lesnar. I agree. It would've been freaking huge. I would've played it up the whole night about a former world champion coming to TNA. Everyone thinks its Jeff Hardy, who does return, but all the sudden, Lesnar comes out and F5s AJ Styles. Him, Angle and Joe form a three man power trip.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Jul 13, 2013 11:40:17 GMT -5
Here's how I think TNA could've made a noise: A. Brock Lesnar shows up. B. A current top WWE star (Cena, Orton) shows up. C. The Rock shows up and puts over TNA. Any one of those, although highly unlikely, would've given TNA an advantage. TNA should have taken whatever they were paying Bischoff/Hogan+friends and thrown it at Lesnar. Although a good idea in theory I believe Brock was sick at the time and unable to do anything physical. Also wasn't Brock making 5 million for 6 appearances in WWE? Whilst Lesnar is probably on the same level as Hulk in terms of fame TNA could have Hulk appear every week on TV for half of that (I think Hulk makes like 2.2 a year from TNA) If you could get Lesnar at 5 million a year for unlimited appearances it may of been worth it if he was well.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 13, 2013 14:04:04 GMT -5
I seriously doubt Cena, Orton, or Lesnar would drive TNA's ratings. People watch for the company itself more than certain guys. If any of those guys showed up on TNA, the general feeling would be "Wow, that guy is now on Impact? Oh God."
Honestly the only thing that could seriously help TNA at this point is to be sold to some really major owners that knew how to market. That and getting rid of the TNA name once and for all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 14:06:14 GMT -5
No way can TNA afford Cena, Orton or Lesnar. Those guys probably made over $1M just for Wrestlemania, unless they really f***ed up there would be no reason to take a pay cut to go to a lesser known promotion.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 14, 2013 9:53:59 GMT -5
After all this time, people still think TNA are one big name away from success... Good grief, have we learned nothing from the past 5-6 years? We have had name after name added to the TNA roster and it hasn't done anything for them in the long term because it doesn't work.
There is no quick fix, TNA could sign everyone currently in the WWE's main event scene and it would not get them over the hump as the biggest issues holding them back have been behind the scenes. TNA needed to get people on board to market shows and improve the booking and they have done, but it will take time for these things to work, improvement and growth will be gradual. We're only now seeing the improvement in attendances caused by the signings in the marketing departments made before Hulk Hogan's arrival. They also need to build a unique brand identity, because being the WWE retirement home just isn't something you can build a viable company around in the long term.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Jul 14, 2013 11:47:00 GMT -5
I seriously doubt Cena, Orton, or Lesnar would drive TNA's ratings. People watch for the company itself more than certain guys. If any of those guys showed up on TNA, the general feeling would be "Wow, that guy is now on Impact? Oh God." Orton really would be a small boost for TNA but Cena and Lesnar could of been massive. Lesnar for his cross over appeal and Cena because he's the WWE's top guy and is known outside of wrestling. Cena/Sting wouldn't do anything for you personally? No way can TNA afford Cena, Orton or Lesnar. Those guys probably made over $1M just for Wrestlemania, unless they really f***ed up there would be no reason to take a pay cut to go to a lesser known promotion. You bring up a good point but if Cena and WWE have a falling out Cena is going to go to TNA straight up and they'd probably give him a very decent wage (I could see them paying 4-5 million a year for Cena) Obviously Cena seems happy but things can change. Perfect example is Hulk Hogan to WCW in 1994. After all this time, people still think TNA are one big name away from success... Good grief, have we learned nothing from the past 5-6 years? We have had name after name added to the TNA roster and it hasn't done anything for them in the long term because it doesn't work. There is no quick fix, TNA could sign everyone currently in the WWE's main event scene and it would not get them over the hump as the biggest issues holding them back have been behind the scenes. TNA needed to get people on board to market shows and improve the booking and they have done, but it will take time for these things to work, improvement and growth will be gradual. We're only now seeing the improvement in attendances caused by the signings in the marketing departments made before Hulk Hogan's arrival. They also need to build a unique brand identity, because being the WWE retirement home just isn't something you can build a viable company around in the long term. TNA has never had a signing as big as a Cena or Brock other then Hulk and as much as I love Hulk. He's limited now and can't do anything more than a brawl match or a tag match where he does nothing. The biggest star TNA ever got from WWE was Jeff Hardy who was a main eventer of the B Show at the time I believe. Still a massive name but not on the level of John Cena. As for the retirement home thing. It works in other sports. My countries soccer league actually focuses itself on 2 players who are 35+ and are well past their prime. 37 year old Alessandro Del Piero drew a crowd of 40,000 to a match last year for a team that was struggling to get 20,000 the season before. Again, It's just marketing. The sports league marketed this guy as massive and the media caught on. TNA needs to get the media to catch on and hype Hulk or any new signing or do it as well as they can. The only two signings I could see mainstream media caring about going to TNA these days would be either Cena or Lesnar. I find it laughable that you think Hulk had minimal to do with the big crowds coming out week to week. A majority of that crowd is there for Hulk Hogan, Sting, Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle. The rest is just the icing on the cake for probably 90% of these people.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 12:01:32 GMT -5
No way can TNA afford Cena, Orton or Lesnar. Those guys probably made over $1M just for Wrestlemania, unless they really f***ed up there would be no reason to take a pay cut to go to a lesser known promotion. You bring up a good point but if Cena and WWE have a falling out Cena is going to go to TNA straight up and they'd probably give him a very decent wage (I could see them paying 4-5 million a year for Cena) Obviously Cena seems happy but things can change. Perfect example is Hulk Hogan to WCW in 1994. I would imagine that the E has Cena locked up like they had Brock locked up where he has a long term contract and if he quits then he can't work anywhere that is competition.
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Jul 14, 2013 12:23:26 GMT -5
I feel like it was the beginning of a new era, but the booking was a little too all over the place.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 14, 2013 12:28:21 GMT -5
TNA has never had a signing as big as a Cena or Brock other then Hulk and as much as I love Hulk. He's limited now and can't do anything more than a brawl match or a tag match where he does nothing. The biggest star TNA ever got from WWE was Jeff Hardy who was a main eventer of the B Show at the time I believe. Still a massive name but not on the level of John Cena. As for the retirement home thing. It works in other sports. My countries soccer league actually focuses itself on 2 players who are 35+ and are well past their prime. 37 year old Alessandro Del Piero drew a crowd of 40,000 to a match last year for a team that was struggling to get 20,000 the season before. Again, It's just marketing. The sports league marketed this guy as massive and the media caught on. TNA needs to get the media to catch on and hype Hulk or any new signing or do it as well as they can. The only two signings I could see mainstream media caring about going to TNA these days would be either Cena or Lesnar. I find it laughable that you think Hulk had minimal to do with the big crowds coming out week to week. A majority of that crowd is there for Hulk Hogan, Sting, Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle. The rest is just the icing on the cake for probably 90% of these people. It doesn't work in other sports in the long term. Over here in the UK we have one of the biggest professional football leagues in the world and every year a team at championship level (second tier in the league system) and below announces the signing of a veteran player that was a big name on the world stage... At first they get increased crowds and merchandise sales, then the novelty wears off within 6 months and they're left paying the wages of said superstar, often long after he's left the team. If running a league as a retirement home was a way to run a football league, 'Soccer' would have taken off in the 70s in north America when it had some of the biggest names in football history... But the North American Soccer League grew fast then contracted even faster with even successful teams losing millions towards the end of it's lifespan. Major League Soccer is fairing better, because it has built it's own talent, it's title winning teams are packed with American talent with a few international names rather than the NASL whose teams were packed with South American and European talent on the downswing of their careers... But no-one will ever pay to see home grown talent performing well in an up and coming league, that would be silly. I find it laughable that you believe that Hulk Hogan is the one who has fixed all of the problems TNA have had with marketing live events and house shows and not the people TNA hired to fix these problems, and that you genuinely think there's a future for a company in wrestling built entirely around nostalgia. World Wrestling Allstars no longer exists, attendances declined toward the end of it's short lifespan, the Hulkamania tour no longer exists, it too found attendances declining toward the end of it's short life. Both companies were folded into TNA rather than kept as a going concern, which they would have were they as successful as you seem to believe. You can go on and on about how great the first two shows were, but the company that held them no longer exist, they did not do well enough to be carried on... that fact remains as true now as the first few times I and other have brought it up. There is no excuse like the WWE taking all of their talent like with the XWF, the people running the show, Hogan included, decided they weren't enough of a success to keep going.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Jul 14, 2013 13:24:20 GMT -5
TNA has never had a signing as big as a Cena or Brock other then Hulk and as much as I love Hulk. He's limited now and can't do anything more than a brawl match or a tag match where he does nothing. The biggest star TNA ever got from WWE was Jeff Hardy who was a main eventer of the B Show at the time I believe. Still a massive name but not on the level of John Cena. As for the retirement home thing. It works in other sports. My countries soccer league actually focuses itself on 2 players who are 35+ and are well past their prime. 37 year old Alessandro Del Piero drew a crowd of 40,000 to a match last year for a team that was struggling to get 20,000 the season before. Again, It's just marketing. The sports league marketed this guy as massive and the media caught on. TNA needs to get the media to catch on and hype Hulk or any new signing or do it as well as they can. The only two signings I could see mainstream media caring about going to TNA these days would be either Cena or Lesnar. I find it laughable that you think Hulk had minimal to do with the big crowds coming out week to week. A majority of that crowd is there for Hulk Hogan, Sting, Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle. The rest is just the icing on the cake for probably 90% of these people. It doesn't work in other sports in the long term. Over here in the UK we have one of the biggest professional football leagues in the world and every year a team at championship level (second tier in the league system) and below announces the signing of a veteran player that was a big name on the world stage... At first they get increased crowds and merchandise sales, then the novelty wears off within 6 months and they're left paying the wages of said superstar, often long after he's left the team. If running a league as a retirement home was a way to run a football league, 'Soccer' would have taken off in the 70s in north America when it had some of the biggest names in football history... But the North American Soccer League grew fast then contracted even faster with even successful teams losing millions towards the end of it's lifespan. Major League Soccer is fairing better, because it has built it's own talent, it's title winning teams are packed with American talent with a few international names rather than the NASL whose teams were packed with South American and European talent on the downswing of their careers... But no-one will ever pay to see home grown talent performing well in an up and coming league, that would be silly. I find it laughable that you believe that Hulk Hogan is the one who has fixed all of the problems TNA have had with marketing live events and house shows and not the people TNA hired to fix these problems, and that you genuinely think there's a future for a company in wrestling built entirely around nostalgia. World Wrestling Allstars no longer exists, attendances declined toward the end of it's short lifespan, the Hulkamania tour no longer exists, it too found attendances declining toward the end of it's short life. Both companies were folded into TNA rather than kept as a going concern, which they would have were they as successful as you seem to believe. You can go on and on about how great the first two shows were, but the company that held them no longer exist, they did not do well enough to be carried on... that fact remains as true now as the first few times I and other have brought it up. There is no excuse like the WWE taking all of their talent like with the XWF, the people running the show, Hogan included, decided they weren't enough of a success to keep going. Major League Soccer only got huge when David Beckham signed with LA Galaxy and the league got all that media hype because of the popularity of Beckham. Suddenly LA Galaxy was known by everyone and the brand went international when the Galaxy went on the road with him and made millions of dollars with Beckham as their man. This popularity lasted for years and made the Galaxy tens of millions of dollars if not more. To this day MLS still uses tons of big stars to keep the fans coming in. New York has France's best football player ever. LA Galaxy has Irelands best soccer player. It's clearly working for them considering they pay these guys 4-5 million a year and give them star treatment. I understand your point that it isn't a long term thing but Hulk's still a draw after three and a half years for TNA just like Beckham was for the Galaxy. A young guy isn't going to last for ever either you know? Now onto the wrestling, I don't think Hulk is the one who has fixed all the problems I give credit to the marketing team because obviously they worked hard also but who's on these House Show and Impact advertisements front and centre? Most of the time it's either Hulk, Sting, Hardy or Angle. Hell, Someone made a thread about TNA expanding into Portugal the other day and the first 4 names on the press release were those 4 followed by Magnus (Who has cross over appeal) and Velvet Sky (Who is hot) I have never said you can build a promotion entirely around nostalgia that's just something you have made up. I feel that these guys have their places though. If Hulk can go out on the radio and draw a few hundred people to a taping based on nostalgia does it really matter? That's still money into TNA's pocket and hell for all we know people might be supporting Hulk based on what he's doing in TNA lately. TNA needs to keep marketing itself as the company that has something for everyone. You like nostalgia? TNA's got it. You like hot chicks who can work? TNA's got it. You like high flying moves and technical matches? TNA's got it. You like ex WWE guys like Angle and Hardy? TNA's got it. That is all my point really is. TNA should cater to both the hardcore fans like you and some of the people on this board, they should cater to WWE's fan base with guys like Hardy, Angle and Anderson and they should cater to guys like me who like seeing guys like Hulk and Sting. TNA does a great job of this and I hope they continue doing so.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 14, 2013 15:55:18 GMT -5
Major League Soccer only got huge when David Beckham signed with LA Galaxy and the league got all that media hype because of the popularity of Beckham. Suddenly LA Galaxy was known by everyone and the brand went international when the Galaxy went on the road with him and made millions of dollars with Beckham as their man. This popularity lasted for years and made the Galaxy tens of millions of dollars if not more. To this day MLS still uses tons of big stars to keep the fans coming in. New York has France's best football player ever. LA Galaxy has Irelands best soccer player. It's clearly working for them considering they pay these guys 4-5 million a year and give them star treatment. I understand your point that it isn't a long term thing but Hulk's still a draw after three and a half years for TNA just like Beckham was for the Galaxy. A young guy isn't going to last for ever either you know? Yeah, going to have to call BS on that. The signing of David Beckham brought MLS to the attention of the world media, but it did not trigger an expansion of the league, it was growing before him, nor did it provide some huge longterm spike in attendances to justify what he was making. LA galaxy attendances according to Wikipedia2005 24,204 2006 20,814 2007 24,252 <-Beckham arrives here. 2008 26,009 2009 20,827 <- Less than 2005 in case you didn't notice 2010 21,437 <- Still below where they were... And so on So, they got two years of increased attendances for the $32 million deal, he did not make major league soccer and he certainly did not bring them onto a whole new level. They spent $32 million to make hypothetical tens of millions, and post Beckham, they're having to spend more to keep themselves at the level they were at before him without any income from the sponsorship deals someone like Beckham brings and now they're giving people like Robbie Keane Beckham money... They're just another in a long line of sports teams mortgaging their future for the promise of short term gain, which is exactly what TNA have done by throwing money at aging talent. As for Hogan still being a draw after 3 and a half years, there is no evidence of that whatsoever, but we've been over that time and time again. As for TNA's English press release mentioning people who are at the center of their current booking plans, well that clearly means that the people mentioned are huge stars and no-one else on the card is close to being as marketable. You know who TNA hyped and featured heavily in their international marketing when he was world champion and a featured player? Austin Aries... But now he's depushed, having spent months treading water, they aren't. Shocking. Your repeated claims that Hulk Hogan is still a draw for TNA is based on the fact he drew for a couple of nights in a nostalgia tour. As for people turning up and sticking with TNA because they're supporting what Hulk Hogan is doing in TNA lately, excuse me while I laugh, laugh and laugh some more... No, even his supporters aren't happy with what he's doing. Nobody is happy right now, with the biggest storylines being built around people who were veterans before most of the current audience were born, one of who is unable to climb into the ring, let alone wrestle in any capacity. People aren't tuning in to see TNA in the numbers they were, their already low PPV numbers have declined to the point where they aren't losing anything trying out the in your house formatof cheap pretaped PPVs. Their house show attendances are better, but most aren't -that- much better than they were before Hogan, but better, where they should be after 3 years of growth... And lets not forget, Hogan and Sting don't work most house shows. Veterans, up and coming stars like AJ, a tag team division with depth, the X division and good women's wrestling... We had that before and most of it got pushed to one side to make more screen time for former stars which is why so many TNA fans on here resent the Hulkster's regime. They haven't done a good job in the past few years, every other division has been severely depushed at some point and has lost some key talent, but the amount of screentime for Hogan, his daughter and other veterans has been pretty much a constant and he remains the focus of a storyline that he can never bring to a satisfying conclusion. I suppose Hogan's reign has been great if you like the WWE/WCW of yesteryear, but for the rest of us it's been frustrating, even by the standards of TNA, and while Hogan is there, I just can't see it changing.
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