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Post by The Trashman on Aug 8, 2013 23:44:21 GMT -5
Its not like he can really mess anything up so I really dont care.
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Post by Young Game on Aug 8, 2013 23:46:41 GMT -5
I am oddly comfortable with this.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 8, 2013 23:53:21 GMT -5
Well, at the very least, you now have someone who probably knows more about bikers than anyone on the team. You know, you and I don't agree on much....but yeah, I do agree with you on that. Nice finding a positive thing out of this that I can actually agree with.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 8, 2013 23:54:29 GMT -5
Bischoff did good and bad in WCW. Lateral move, at best. Now the real question.....what will Jason Hervey's role be? Because those two are close enough that I think they even take bubble baths together going over ideas for a new reality show starring David Faustino where he has to raise a kid that isn't his. Well, he still has been the sort of backstage camera interviewer.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 8, 2013 23:55:45 GMT -5
I thought Jeff Jarrett got this job yesterday? So tell us Dixie why do you keep bring bookers and big talent guys who all where fired from that job. You know there was a reason right? To give a guy power who only had TWO years of success lest be real only two years that happened well over fifteen years ago. For once Dixie try using someone who isn't a failure at there job before hand. Try someone new and get fresh blood in your company. Jeff got head of talent relations. That is a different job than head of creative.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 0:03:04 GMT -5
The question, of course, being who? Most of the guys people name are either not in a position to do that or seem more like pipe dreams than actual alternatives. Someone with a different vision? Which, in this case, doesn't necessarily have to be someone from the wrestling business, but someone who has showrunning experience, someone who has developed complex narratives involving several characters who interact and undergo change over time, and someone who has a particular story worth telling. Wrestling is wrestling, yes, but wrestling is also television the majority of the time. Maybe someone from outside the business can head creative, whereas the wrestling people function as the nuts and bolts of getting stories from point A to B and B to C (the agents, in other words). Names that come to mind: David Fury, David Shore, David Chase, Paul Dini, Alan Ball, etc. Start writing television and pay-per-views into season blocs, even when wrestling storylines are typically both dynamic (always changing) and inert (never starting from scratch or stopping on a dime but always occurring in the middle) at once. Build to important shows on TV to then build to pay-per-view (like a season finale). And so on. It always seems like people in the wrestling business treat wrestling like it's fundamentally different from all other forms of narrative television. Barring the fact that conflict occurs in a shared space through physical combat as determined by a set of rather arbitrary rules, what exactly is the difference? Instead of bookers complaining that now they have television in their wrestling, why not make wrestling get into television? Treat the show and the talent and the angles as seriously as any other showrunner on television would and see what happens. I think they can still look within the wrestling business, they just need to stop having concern for having creative heads that have drawn money for WCW or WWE. Like in pro sports, front-office positions are filled by taking someone from another team and promoting them. There's tons of independent wrestling companies, figure out who books/writes for them, study their work and see what you think, if you like it schedule an interview and give them a shot to wow you. But, they don't scout anything, they just go by name value and past success. Wrestling is on 52 weeks a year, it needs to be a forward thinking medium instead of hoping that someone who did a great job in 1997 can produce results now.
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Post by Banjo Is Broken on Aug 9, 2013 1:32:54 GMT -5
I am oddly comfortable with this. The world is not ready for something this glorious.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 9, 2013 1:38:44 GMT -5
I am oddly comfortable with this. Aww yeah, Wrestletaint Event Center, here we come!
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 9, 2013 2:10:34 GMT -5
"We understand that Daniel Bryan, who once wrestled as Bryan Danielson in the indies, is going to win their world title! Ha! That'll put some butts in the seats!" Can "butts in seats" really make any difference when Impact doesn't directly compete with any WWE show the way that RAW and Nitro did?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 3:23:15 GMT -5
I don't think it's completely accurate to always compare TNA with WWE when ROH has completely traveled their existence avoiding that...Thing is I can understand because TNA has made it their goal to do just that and has fallen short...The strange thing to look at in the long run is that they are reaching a point where they are a company that will be existing longer then the polarizing WCW organization did...Good or bad I can understand the decision process with giving it a shot with Eric...He is actually pretty intelligent and cutthroat and always keeps his eye on the ball even if it isn't from a purist point of view...He reaches out of the box and gets criticized yet reinvigorates the mid card division...It's always going to be a catch 22 with his roller coaster track record...TNA could do much worse...Give him the book with less money and more individuals asking "why" and I think good things can be done...
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 9, 2013 3:40:42 GMT -5
Yes, Eric Bischoff brought WCW out of the depths to battle WWF to the point that WWF was in serious danger. Then he turned around and drove the company so far into the ground that WCW management told him to piss off for a while. When he came back, he and Russo took turns shoveling dirt on the company until it was so far under that it alienated a large portion of the audience and lead to the end.
I'm not saying Eric is the worst person to ever touch a book but c'mon guys, focusing on just the rise of WCW in the mid-90s and ignoring his hand in the fall is just as bad as approaching it the other way around.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on Aug 9, 2013 3:45:09 GMT -5
& all of a sudden Garett Bischoff is the leader of the Aces & 8's ...
I really don't care about Eric Bischoff at this point - whether as a character on TV or any job he does backstage. He seems like a genuine prick on Twitter and I have zero doubts he's really like that. Just a hate-able human being.
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Post by Ryushinku on Aug 9, 2013 5:42:34 GMT -5
Just makes me shrug, I figure he's been able to pull the strings in a similar way since he's been there anyway. This is more like formalising it than anything.
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 9, 2013 6:29:13 GMT -5
Yes, Eric Bischoff brought WCW out of the depths to battle WWF to the point that WWF was in serious danger. Then he turned around and drove the company so far into the ground that WCW management told him to piss off for a while. When he came back, he and Russo took turns shoveling dirt on the company until it was so far under that it alienated a large portion of the audience and lead to the end. I'm not saying Eric is the worst person to ever touch a book but c'mon guys, focusing on just the rise of WCW in the mid-90s and ignoring his hand in the fall is just as bad as approaching it the other way around. Except the majority of people are looking at it the other way around, in fact most of the people who are bringing up the point that he was the one who brought WCW to glory because if they didn't then it probably wouldn't be mentioned at all. You're right it does work both ways so lets just get this out there, Bischoff did a lot of bad things with WCW and he definitely has his slice of blame for it going down the river however without him at the helm it is arguable that they would have never made it to the heights that it did. Bischoff was ambitious and took risks and no matter how much of a dick head he is he turned WCW into THE biggest wrestling promotion in the world. Is it his fault WCW died? Partly, does that mean he can't help TNA and shouldn't be given the chance to do so? Hell no.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 9, 2013 6:50:16 GMT -5
Well let's see how it goes first. The big thing is always whether or not the Head can get a long and work with his other writers and Bischoff has always spoken highly of Lagana.
Also, I really don't think it matters who TNA would have given the job to, people would still bitch because bitching about TNA can be fun.
Now if Garrett becomes more than just a Juice Ortiz ripoff, I'll complain but I'll take a wait and see approach
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 7:47:59 GMT -5
SOR, I was one of the few who defended Bischoff in this thread but even I have to call bullshit on your earlier post. 1. Yeah, Eric Bischoff was the only guy to take it to Vince McMahon. That was 1995. What has he done lately? 2. Eric can turn TNA around? He's had a lot of power for 3 years now, and TNA is somehow in a worse position than before he started. 3. Three months that were considered bad? You gotta be kidding me. For reference, Bischoff was in charge of WCW from 1993-1999. 1994 was okay, 1995 was terrible other than Nitro starting, 1996 was okay, 1997 and 1998 were good and 1999 was bad. So that's at least 2 years right there that were shitty. His stint in 2000 was also terrible. 4. People loving the Aces and Eights angle at any point is news to me. 5. Bischoff was definitely involved in the fall of WCW. He wasn't removed as President of WCW until September 1999 and that year WCW had already began a big downward spiral. Dumb decisions like bringing in KISS and Master P definitely didn't help matters. 6. People are looking for long storylines that are actually, y'know....good. No point having a long storyline if it sucks balls. 7. Again, Bischoff was removed as President of WCW in September 1999. Yeah he claims he was burnt out but by no means was this Eric volunteering to take a back seat. He got fired. 1. 1995-1999. What has he done lately? After a successful WWE run he and Jason Hervey produced some shows that got onto TV and without the numbers on me I'd assume they weren't failures. 2. Worse position? How so? TNA is on the roads and this year drew it's biggest crowd to date. Before that TNA was struggling to draw 2000-3000 fans to Pay Per Views. Also, without the numbers, finances, sponsorships etc in front of you how can you make judgement? I have evidence TNA is growing, do you have evidence it's in a worse place? 3. Bischoff was in charge of WCW from 1994-1999. 94 was good, 95 was good, 96 was great, 97 and 98 are what many say is the best year of any company ever and 99 wasn't as great but was still above average (Hence the sold out arena's and high ratings) 4. Go back to January on this very board, you'll see praise for the angle. 5. Kevin Nash was head booker of WCW during the Master P angle. Hypothetically if Bischoff was responsible he at least tried a celebrity cross over which had worked for him 3 times prior (Rodman, Malone, Leno) every one in wrestling has had failed idea's. Even IWC favourites like Heyman, Cornette and Sapolsky. 6. I like the Aces and Eights story lines it had a lot of twists and turns. Again, people have only got sick of it within the last few months anyway. 7. He was removed from his position, not fired. If he were fired he wouldn't of came back in mid 2000 and if he was worthless like you and others are trying to claim he never would of got the invite back to "save the company" in mid 2000. 1. A successful run in WWE where he didn't hold any power and was just an on-screen talent. Discounting whatever he's been doing in TNA, he hasn't been in creative control of a wrestling company in 13 years. 2. Impact is TNA's biggest revenue source and ratings have gotten worse since he and Hogan joined the company on average, per year. That is not good. 3. WCW 1995 was good? Are you on crack? 4. And I can go even further back than January and see boredom with this angle, frustration with this angle and wanting this angle to die. 5. So? Do you honestly think Kevin Nash of all people went and sought out Master P? Hell no. It was all Bischoff. No one is saying to never have any celebrity involvement ever. But Master P has to go down as one of the worst celebrity/wrestling crossovers ever. He attracted no new fans, lost the company money, and didn't help ratings (ratings may have even went down). 6. Of course you like the Aces and Eights angle. You work for TNA. 7. Fired = removed from his position. He was fired from one role, given another. And where did I ever say he was worhtless? I think you'll find I defended him on the first page, long before you attached yourself to Bischoff's right nut.
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Aug 9, 2013 8:09:07 GMT -5
They survived 10 years with Russo in charge, Bischoff isn't going to auto-kill them
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 9, 2013 8:13:01 GMT -5
1. 1995-1999. What has he done lately? After a successful WWE run he and Jason Hervey produced some shows that got onto TV and without the numbers on me I'd assume they weren't failures. 2. Worse position? How so? TNA is on the roads and this year drew it's biggest crowd to date. Before that TNA was struggling to draw 2000-3000 fans to Pay Per Views. Also, without the numbers, finances, sponsorships etc in front of you how can you make judgement? I have evidence TNA is growing, do you have evidence it's in a worse place? 3. Bischoff was in charge of WCW from 1994-1999. 94 was good, 95 was good, 96 was great, 97 and 98 are what many say is the best year of any company ever and 99 wasn't as great but was still above average (Hence the sold out arena's and high ratings) 4. Go back to January on this very board, you'll see praise for the angle. 5. Kevin Nash was head booker of WCW during the Master P angle. Hypothetically if Bischoff was responsible he at least tried a celebrity cross over which had worked for him 3 times prior (Rodman, Malone, Leno) every one in wrestling has had failed idea's. Even IWC favourites like Heyman, Cornette and Sapolsky. 6. I like the Aces and Eights story lines it had a lot of twists and turns. Again, people have only got sick of it within the last few months anyway. 7. He was removed from his position, not fired. If he were fired he wouldn't of came back in mid 2000 and if he was worthless like you and others are trying to claim he never would of got the invite back to "save the company" in mid 2000. 1. A successful run in WWE where he didn't hold any power and was just an on-screen talent. Discounting whatever he's been doing in TNA, he hasn't been in creative control of a wrestling company in 13 years. 2. Impact is TNA's biggest revenue source and ratings have gotten worse since he and Hogan joined the company on average, per year. That is not good. 3. WCW 1995 was good? Are you on crack? 4. And I can go even further back than January and see boredom with this angle, frustration with this angle and wanting this angle to die. 5. So? Do you honestly think Kevin Nash of all people went and sought out Master P? Hell no. It was all Bischoff. No one is saying to never have any celebrity involvement ever. But Master P has to go down as one of the worst celebrity/wrestling crossovers ever. He attracted no new fans, lost the company money, and didn't help ratings (ratings may have even went down). 6. Of course you like the Aces and Eights angle. You work for TNA. 7. Fired = removed from his position. He was fired from one role, given another. And where did I ever say he was worhtless? I think you'll find I defended him on the first page, long before you attached yourself to Bischoff's right nut. Did you just honestly accuse SOR of working for TNA? Does SOR work for TNA? Honestly though if you're accusing the people who defend TNA on here of being plants from TNA that's just ridiculous.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,637
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 9, 2013 8:18:43 GMT -5
1.1 rating?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 8:20:25 GMT -5
1. A successful run in WWE where he didn't hold any power and was just an on-screen talent. Discounting whatever he's been doing in TNA, he hasn't been in creative control of a wrestling company in 13 years. 2. Impact is TNA's biggest revenue source and ratings have gotten worse since he and Hogan joined the company on average, per year. That is not good. 3. WCW 1995 was good? Are you on crack? 4. And I can go even further back than January and see boredom with this angle, frustration with this angle and wanting this angle to die. 5. So? Do you honestly think Kevin Nash of all people went and sought out Master P? Hell no. It was all Bischoff. No one is saying to never have any celebrity involvement ever. But Master P has to go down as one of the worst celebrity/wrestling crossovers ever. He attracted no new fans, lost the company money, and didn't help ratings (ratings may have even went down). 6. Of course you like the Aces and Eights angle. You work for TNA. 7. Fired = removed from his position. He was fired from one role, given another. And where did I ever say he was worhtless? I think you'll find I defended him on the first page, long before you attached yourself to Bischoff's right nut. Did you just honestly accuse SOR of working for TNA? Does SOR work for TNA? Honestly though if you're accusing the people who defend TNA on here of being plants from TNA that's just ridiculous. I don't think it's any more ridiculous than defending Taeler Hendrix being called too heavy for TNA or claiming WCW in 1995 was good.
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