|
Post by The Masked Heel WAS WRONG on Aug 26, 2013 18:48:33 GMT -5
So I guess I can blame Ol' Clown Shoes for having to sit through Storm's boring schtick near the end of WCW.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Aug 26, 2013 20:06:44 GMT -5
Um, dude? Christopher Daniels is in impeccable shape.
|
|
|
Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 26, 2013 20:14:16 GMT -5
Um, dude? Christopher Daniels is in impeccable shape. He has the rear that makes the girls cheer!
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Aug 26, 2013 20:24:37 GMT -5
Um, dude? Christopher Daniels is in impeccable shape. He has the rear that makes the girls cheer! AAAAAAW WHAT A TUSH!
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Aug 26, 2013 20:43:07 GMT -5
Here's the one thing I always did understand when it came to Russo: when you come down to it, wrestling IS "fake"...obviously not in terms of the pain the guys experience or what have you, but guys protect one another, have predetermined outcomes, all that good stuff. A ton of wrestlers, even many of my all-time favorites, often seem like they can't really roll with that, and it can make things very complicated. That said, where Russo will always lose me is that he confuses "it's fake" with "it's ok to totally wreck suspension of disbelief". There are tons of fictional TV shows out there, and almost none of them go out of their way to do that on a regular basis. Too often, wrestling does, and frankly it doesn't enhance the experience. Exactly. It's all about enhancing the experience. If you're going out there and giving them the bare minimum in terms of delivery, people are going to be pissed. He explains everything away as a storyline or whatever, and calls it fake. Most entertainment is fake, but it's about giving people the best experience possible. Russo putting the belt on himself as a "storyline" was a complete and total waste of effort. It's like the people who make Bucky Larson, they think they had a clever product on their hands, and then blame the fanbase when they don't accept it. Take some f***ing responsibility for your own shortcomings. How hard is it to say; "I thought I was doing something that may get people interested in what we were doing. I was unfortunately wrong." But Russo will never do that. Because implying that he is wrong is implying he's incapable of writing good TV. And if he admits as much, it might possibly interfere with his next wrestling payday, if he ever tricks anyone into hiring him.
|
|
|
Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 26, 2013 21:44:56 GMT -5
If I wasn't so poor, I would buy this. I love hearing Russo talk wrestling. I don't really want him to BOOK wrestling but it's fascinating to hear to his insight even if I often disagree with him.
|
|
|
Post by Bear Skin Rug on Aug 26, 2013 21:54:05 GMT -5
I think Russo has a point, it's just that Daniels is a bad example.
|
|
|
Post by thegame415 on Aug 27, 2013 1:33:52 GMT -5
Anyone care to elaborate on what Storm hates about Russo? Also, shouldn't Storm have heat with Brian Gewirtz, or whoever saddled him with the boring gimmick in WWE?
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 27, 2013 8:05:39 GMT -5
To be fair that could be entirely true. I mean even in today's TNA he's just doing an "arrogant heel" gimmick with a prop in his hand. He is rather generic and looks wise he's incredibly generic. If he cared about more then good matches why doesn't he have an in shape body? Seriously? Daniels is in amazing shape, it's just he's got the same body type as Sean Waltman, Alex Wright and Billy Kidman where he's looks smaller than most because he's built like a gymnast/legit athlete rather than a bodybuilder.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 27, 2013 9:41:14 GMT -5
Just from what I've seen so far, it just cements in my mind that Russo really doesn't get it. He really has no idea, maybe never had any idea, what he was doing. I'm watching this. 20 minutes in and I want to punch this guy in the face. Saying it doesn't matter how good the matches are? That titles are meaningless? How did this guy get a job, and keep getting jobs? Honestly, from listening to a bunch of interviews he's done and also reading his last book, Russo can explain things in a way that in theory an idea should work. The big issue is he tends to get behind guys that don't connect with the crowd. Going to watch this now. See how it goes, but Hogan story posted in this thread he talked about in his book and then when he told his superiors they agreed that it was best not to call Hulk back as he cost too much money.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2013 9:51:55 GMT -5
To be fair that could be entirely true. I mean even in today's TNA he's just doing an "arrogant heel" gimmick with a prop in his hand. He is rather generic and looks wise he's incredibly generic. If he cared about more then good matches why doesn't he have an in shape body? Seriously? Daniels is in amazing shape, it's just he's got the same body type as Sean Waltman, Alex Wright and Billy Kidman where he's looks smaller than most because he's built like a gymnast/legit athlete rather than a bodybuilder. Dude just...don't even bother Save your energy for something more worthwile.
|
|
SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
|
Post by SOR on Aug 27, 2013 10:08:49 GMT -5
To be fair that could be entirely true. I mean even in today's TNA he's just doing an "arrogant heel" gimmick with a prop in his hand. He is rather generic and looks wise he's incredibly generic. If he cared about more then good matches why doesn't he have an in shape body? Seriously? Daniels is in amazing shape, it's just he's got the same body type as Sean Waltman, Alex Wright and Billy Kidman where he's looks smaller than most because he's built like a gymnast/legit athlete rather than a bodybuilder. I agree that he looks like a runner or something but I think if he wants to be a small guy that is taken seriously he could pack on 10-15 pounds. He'd still be able to be agile and athletic and he'd look the part also.
|
|
|
Post by nickcave on Aug 27, 2013 10:35:56 GMT -5
I think most people are forgetting that Daniels is Curry Man which is nothing but a ridiculous character..that is why he is a bad example for Russo. If he's going to go that route he should have picked someone like Davey Richards or something (which to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if Russo didn't know who that was because he never worked for him)
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 27, 2013 11:24:39 GMT -5
Seriously? Daniels is in amazing shape, it's just he's got the same body type as Sean Waltman, Alex Wright and Billy Kidman where he's looks smaller than most because he's built like a gymnast/legit athlete rather than a bodybuilder. I agree that he looks like a runner or something but I think if he wants to be a small guy that is taken seriously he could pack on 10-15 pounds. He'd still be able to be agile and athletic and he'd look the part also. How well did that work for Billy Kidman? He gained pound after pound of muscle mass to get the WWE look at the expense of everything that made him stand out. He lost his look, he lost his agility and he became like everyone else, only he hurt people doing high flying moves. Not everyone needs to be a super ripped mountain of muscle. Daniels stands out how he is now, he gets a reaction from the audience, both from live crowds and the internet so why change that?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2013 21:53:45 GMT -5
Man, what an interesting thread.
You know what I hear a lot from fans? "I don't watch that garbage. It's nothing but talking.'
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2013 22:02:32 GMT -5
Lance did and interview with RD Reynolds back in 07 where he said Ace told Russo to give him Lance and he'd be the biggest heel on the roster whereas Russo was gonna have him lead something like the Canadian World Order and Lance would always refer to it as the COW, coming across as stupid. Lance's response was "Why does everyone have to be stupid on these shows'? Anyway, Ace has control over Lance and I remember Lance being very over during that time. Russo signed off on it so I guess he just takes credit for helping Lance get over on TV. Lance wasn't that over. He did a cheap heat "Anti everywhere but Canada" gimmick and was an okay Upper Midcarder but that's about it. Apparently Chris Daniels only cares about having 4 star matches. No character for that guy. Russo's a pretty inaccurate cougher. To be fair that could be entirely true. I mean even in today's TNA he's just doing an "arrogant heel" gimmick with a prop in his hand. He is rather generic and looks wise he's incredibly generic. If he cared about more then good matches why doesn't he have an in shape body? Just from what I've seen so far, it just cements in my mind that Russo really doesn't get it. He really has no idea, maybe never had any idea, what he was doing. I'm watching this. 20 minutes in and I want to punch this guy in the face. Saying it doesn't matter how good the matches are? That titles are meaningless? How did this guy get a job, and keep getting jobs? Russo DOES get it. He isn't a Wrestling Writer or Booker. He doesn't care if Lance Storm and Mike Awesome go out and have a 30 minute classic. He cares about the entertainment and he's right, even I as a hardcore wrestling fan don't like to sit through long matches unless it's on PPV. I think most TV matches should be around the 6-8 minute mark with the main events going longer. I want interesting angles and television I don't particularly care if Wrestler A and Wrestler B have a great match.
And surprisingly every casual wrestling fan I've ever come across has talked about how awesome it was when "X did this" and every single time it relates to an angle. The casual wrestling fan does not care about 5 star matches in the United States. If they did ROH would be in TNA's spot and TNA would probably be dead as would WWE.
This is a false distinction though. The choices aren't "Long, five star wrestling matches" and "Entertaining reality based angles." That's just not Russo's track record. That's not what he produces. For all this talk about whether or not he gets it and the importance of characters and storytelling over boring matches no one cares about, the guy doesn't grasp the fundamental rules of storytelling. He doesn't understand that what happens in your story has to be consistent with the rules of that universe. The pipe bomb promo, if you look back at it, never once came out and said the matches were predetermined. It never said anything that came out and said "What we do is decided by other people." It complained about the status quo of the company and a dissatisfied employee tried to shake up the basics of how wrestling worked in a more realistic way, but it never broke the 'rules' of the wrestling universe. Money in the Bank that year did really well and it did the kind of angle Russo and his supporters like to pretend he did but has never actually managed to pull off.
|
|
|
Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Aug 28, 2013 1:41:54 GMT -5
Just watched it. Russo is always a fascinating interview, and hearing him talk for two-and-a-half hours about the most intriguing era of WCW was enough to get me to cough up 20 dollars. In the end, he really shed some light on some curiosities during that period. {Spoiler}-Bobby Heenan was either always drunk on air or on pills and there was a huge push behind the scenes to get rid of him, which they didn't do until Russo was demoted in early 2000. Russo would have kept him otherwise
-The exact nature of the Bash at the Beach "shoot" and what really set Hogan off: Russo promised to call Hogan the next day and set up the future plan, Brad Siegel told him not to because they couldn't afford Hogan, and Hogan's paranoia made him believe that the planned worked shoot was real, leading to the defamation of character suit.
-Russo's four month long concussion cloud and the deep depression that ran alongside it, leading to his three week absence prior to Bash at the Beach and him bugging out on the Australian tour, as well as the possibility that Goldberg speared him into the barricade on purpose. Hearing Russo's side of the story is refreshing, because, with the exception of the behind-the-scenes stuff that never got reported, this is exactly how I remember it all going down in 2000, yet gotten distorted over the decade.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,273
|
Post by chazraps on Aug 28, 2013 1:49:20 GMT -5
I agree that he looks like a runner or something but I think if he wants to be a small guy that is taken seriously he could pack on 10-15 pounds. He'd still be able to be agile and athletic and he'd look the part also. How well did that work for Billy Kidman? He gained pound after pound of muscle mass to get the WWE look at the expense of everything that made him stand out. He lost his look, he lost his agility and he became like everyone else, only he hurt people doing high flying moves. Not everyone needs to be a super ripped mountain of muscle. Daniels stands out how he is now, he gets a reaction from the audience, both from live crowds and the internet so why change that? SOR has a personal vendetta against Daniels. Best to just let his comments about him fall by the wayside.
|
|
|
Post by machomuta on Aug 28, 2013 3:09:43 GMT -5
Did Giant Baba ever put on really good matches? No, Wrong. Baba had some good matches in the 60´s and 70´s, when he was in his prime. Some of them are on youtube.
|
|
|
Post by The Baltimore Staircase on Aug 29, 2013 8:40:38 GMT -5
My impressions were; I always find it hard to believe someone who constantly says "I'll be honest with you" or "I swear..." but having said that there's something about Russo that just makes me like him.
I especially liked the way his response to the "on a pole" question was that he did it because it sounds hilarious, which it does.
Good interview. Hope he does come back and do the WWE '98 timeline.
|
|