Former writer talks Vince's thoughts on lucha, masks

[héad.casé]

On his biggest disappointment when in WWE: "I really wanted to create a high octane Cruiserweight division and build it around Ultimo Dragon, and bring in guys he'd worked with in Mexico and Japan like Super Crazy, Juventud, Psychosis. I realized writing my book, that there's a huge latino community in the US and I wanted to bring a strong lucha libre style to the WWE to bridge the cultural gap. But it didn't happen. That's one of the first big fights I had with Vince.

The concept of the masked wrestler is lost on the WWE, they don't really understand it, they don't appreciate it, unlike Mexico where that's the focal point. I think in America, it's a whole different ballgame, the psychology is different. I lost that fight a couple of times in the room. At one point, we lost Ultimo he went back to Japan, and we just had Rey, Vince goes, 'We have one masked wrestler in the ring, any more of them on the roster and it'll confuse the fans.' I said to him, 'Vince, there's 10,000 wrestlers in Mexico in masks, no-one's confused.' I looked around the room and I wasn't gonna win that fight. That was the biggest disappointment, that they wouldn't let lucha libre be a featured style on the show."

On Alberto Del Rio's decision as opposed to other Mexican stars: "He took the mask off which was a smart move, a very smart move. If you're gonna come up from Mexico with a famous gimmick, take the mask off, find a different gimmick don't lose the reputation, that's the awful thing. It's like Ultimo Dragon, he never got the push he deserved because they never knew what to do with him. At one point a few years ago, WWE wanted him to come back but wanted him to take his mask off. It seems like people don't get how important the mask is in Mexico, it's like the essence of the wrestler. Mistico, I think Sin Cara now, he made a big splash, now they don't know what to do with him. Think of merchandising with a masked wrestler, it could be huge. But they don't understand the lucha libre mentality."

The writer that mentioned this was Dan Madigan by the way on a radio show. Can't believe WWE wanted Ultimo Dragon back unmasked.

[________ has left the building]

I don't understand it either. Most masked wrestlers are homely looking without the mask.

[TGM]

I see Vince's point on only having one masked guy in the roster. Rey Mysterio was a merchandising monster for years. Why dilute that by having 10plus guys on the roster all wearing masks?

I loved the cruisersweight division in WCW as a kid, but I just know that's not how WWE do business.

[Djm Doesn't Find You Funny]

Aug 15, 2013 6:00:59 GMT -5 TGM said:

I see Vince's point on only having one masked guy in the roster. Rey Mysterio was a merchandising monster for years. Why dilute that by having 10plus guys on the roster all wearing masks?

I loved the cruisersweight division in WCW as a kid, but I just know that's not how WWE do business.

Agreed. Vince just isn't wired to do this sort of thing and I've let it go, but his main point was quickly diffused.

People don't get confused by the number of masked performers in Mexico. People who Rey, Juventud, Ultimo Dragon & La Parka were in WCW.

Why would the WWE audience get confused? Again, that goes back to the WWE braintrust's opinion of its audience and we all know that already.

[Deleted]

Saying that people will be confused by multiple masked wrestlers when the WWE was clone valley for a while is hilarious to me. At least the luchadors always had unique masks and costumes.

[Sparvid]

Is this the same writer who came up with an idea for some kind of high-flying, lucha division only for it to go through the WWE machine and end up as the Junior Division featuring Super Porky?

[héad.casé]

Aug 15, 2013 8:26:01 GMT -5 Sparvid said:

Is this the same writer who came up with an idea for some kind of high-flying, lucha division only for it to go through the WWE machine and end up as the Junior Division featuring Super Porky?

Possibly. I think they sort of pitched a Junior Heavyweight Division as a fresh start since they ruined the Cruiserweight Title enough. The writer gave a list of names of all the wrestlers he wanted for the Division, but when the idea actually came to TV it was totally different and they'd hired a bunch of mini wrestlers.

[Idiot]

JBL pitched Brawl for all as being hardcore matches, it became a shootfighting competition.

[Sephiroth]

I will actually have to argue that, to some extent, there is a cultural difference between Mexico and the USA that would work against a lot of masked wrestlers here. Lucha Libre goes to the heart of Mexican culture because the masks are a reference to Mexico's ancient heritage, to the Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas. And the tradition of masked wrestlers is so deeply ingrained in Mexico that it would be hard to imagine otherwise. The lucahdores even wear their masks in public in Mexico, only taking them off in private. You don't see that kind of kayfabe in the USA these days. Its just a different mindset.

With that said, ECW and WCW proved that luchadores can get over with American audiences easy if they are good enough talent in the ring. WWE has never really been partial to light-weight wrestlers and have a long track record of misusing some of the most talented stars out there, Ultimo Dragon being a perfect example. I would have to compare Vince's mindset to a story about Bobby the Brain; he once argued with Eric Bischoff to only hire a couple of luchadores and just keep a large collection of masks, thinking that the audience wouldn't know the difference. "Old school" promoters in the USA basically see luchadores as all being the same because they all wear masks-the idea of each luchadore having a unique character and style in the ring is lost.

[Hit Girl]

Multiple masked wrestlers could work in a company, if they had distinct characters

But Vince will never understand that, and if he doesn't, then the idea is dead and buried.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

when I was a kid I always marked for masked wrestlers, no matter how shitty they actually were (I'm probably the only guy who thought the Avatar was cool). it's something I really miss. a mask's a prop like anything else, if used properly it can help get anyone over.

[Squirrel Master]

There are many talented luchadors who are more than simply Masked Guy #12. A lucha libre match or two rounds out a card nicely.
You can add an extra five or more minutes of high drama to any lucha libre match simply by by putting a luchador in peril of being unmasked. In Mexico it is considered a disgrace to be unmasked by your opponent.
Why the boss refuses to understand ....it's baffling.

[Hit Girl]

If Vince ran comic books, there would only be one superhero, because other superheroes would dilute the appeal.

[mrbananagrabber]

Aug 15, 2013 10:49:38 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

If Vince ran comic books, there would only be one superhero, because other superheroes would dilute the appeal.

[Razor Gives It A 4/10]

Aug 15, 2013 10:49:38 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

If Vince ran comic books, there would only be one superhero, because other superheroes would dilute the appeal.

[Greer]

Multiple masked wrestlers all with different masks and abilities is a bad thing?

Multiple women who have the exact same personality, wrestling ability, looks and no distinctive character whatsoever is a good thing?


Oh WWE.

[rybackrulez]

What i don't understand was that Hurricane and Rey Mysterio were the designated masked guys, so kane had to unmask.

But kane wanted to unmask anyways.

But the money hurricane and rey brought in through merch was good enough to warrant them being put on tv.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

That just reminds me of that one angle in WCW where Eddie Guerrero had his wallet stolen and he had no idea who took it because of all the Mexicans wore masks.

[trollrogue]

Well to Vince's point Rey Mysterio changes the colors/styles of his mask so much that it's no longer a distinguishable trademark of his. I remember that match he came out with the Batman mask on and realized Rey Mysterio's gimmick had officially jumped-the-shark, lol (the cape sealed his fate, definitely!)

Putting any other lucha wrestler up against Rey Rey and his bright-ass Fruity Pebbles mask collection will confuse kids who will just think any variation is Rey in a new mask. Sin Cara only works because they have to change the dang lighting everytime he wrestles! (I know that's not the reported reason why they change lighting, but hush and let me theorycraft!)

[MichaelMartini]

Aug 15, 2013 8:58:24 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

I will actually have to argue that, to some extent, there is a cultural difference between Mexico and the USA that would work against a lot of masked wrestlers here. Lucha Libre goes to the heart of Mexican culture because the masks are a reference to Mexico's ancient heritage, to the Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas. And the tradition of masked wrestlers is so deeply ingrained in Mexico that it would be hard to imagine otherwise. The lucahdores even wear their masks in public in Mexico, only taking them off in private. You don't see that kind of kayfabe in the USA these days. Its just a different mindset.

Good point but in America there's a tradition called comic books. Most superheroes wear masks. Being like a live action comic book is what draws many kids to wrestling in the first place. Plus masks have been a part of American wrestling forever. At least since the Destroyer days.

I wonder if Vince can't tell the difference between Spiderman and Batman.