About the objectification of the divas

[Sephiroth]

Some other posters here have commented on their distaste for the objectification of the female wrestlers in WWE. And despite some other posts of my own, I am actually going to say I agree. I would actually love to see more actual female wrestlers instead of playmates and fitness models. I would love to see the women give equal billing alongside the men. Some of the ladies of NXT give me hope for such and I am anticipating some of them eventually appearing on the main shows. But the red blooded man in me still likes to see a beautiful woman, as much as I hate the fact that beauty is now a measuring stick for female wrestlers in North America. Women's wrestling is sort of like what was said in a previous thread about masks; it has just never been on the same level in this country, and I honestly doubt it ever will be. As a guy who enjoys seeing a beautiful woman, I don't mind the divas doing sexy photoshoots-but I would prefer that not be the main reason they are in the WWE. I would prefer that be so they can actually put on matches and entertain the audience. Nuff said.

[Sparkybob]

I think most people will agree with you.

[Unaffiliated]

It's not a wrestling thing, it's an entertainment thing. Women get objectified everywhere. The 'star of the show' actresses are definitely hired for looks first over acting ability. I think it's unfair that the Divas division gets bashed for consisting mainly of these model types, and I don't believe that the general wrestling audience will be won over by actual wrestler divas putting on good matches.

[Hit Girl]

It's not as bad as it was before. They don't have crap like bra/panties matches anymore, thankfully. If they give women real personas and characters, it pays off. AJ's rise from nobody to the top female wrestler in the company is proof of that.

[Sephiroth]

Aug 16, 2013 13:44:44 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

It's not as bad as it was before. They don't have crap like bra/panties matches anymore, thankfully. If they give women real personas and characters, it pays off. AJ's rise from nobody to the top female wrestler in the company is proof of that.

Certainly hope so. Like I said, photoshoots aren't bad, and maybe once in a while a T&A event like a summer bikini contest or the Halloween costume battle royal. But keep the focus on the ring, not the boobs.

[Young Game]

Is Sara Del Rey still working as a trainer?

I'm pretty sure she might campaign to end this and focus on the more athletic side of things.

[Old Jack Burton]

Is this thread from 2008?

WWE has come a long way. AJ Lee, the top diva of the moment, is a pure wrestler, and Kaitlyn might as well be at this point. And while both women are undeniably incredibly attractive, it was not their looks that got them where they're at now.

Divas like Layla, Alicia Fox, and Naomi are as good or better than all but a handful of indy wrestlers. The less skilled divas, Aksana and Rosa, are hardly seen on TV.

[Crimson]

Pics?

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

I agree that women should not be shunned by their looks, but I don't think we should dismiss beautiful women as being "too hot to function" either.

WWE doesn't hire these women solely as eye candy. I think ideally, they'd like to have another Trish Stratus, someone with obvious sex appeal who can learn the ropes and become a serviceable worker down the line.

[BigBadZ]

Aug 17, 2013 0:45:03 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

I agree that women should not be shunned by their looks, but I don't think we should dismiss beautiful women as being "too hot to function" either.

WWE doesn't hire these women solely as eye candy. I think ideally, they'd like to have another Trish Stratus, someone with obvious sex appeal who can learn the ropes and become a serviceable worker down the line.

I came here to say this. WWE wants Trish Stratus type of divas. Sexy models who are good in the ring. They'll pick one or two up but they have just have a better record at choosing models who can't cross over in the ring.

[rnrk supports BLM]

Aug 17, 2013 0:43:30 GMT -5 Old Jack Burton said:

AJ Lee, the top diva of the moment, is a pure wrestler

AJ was barely even wrestling for the year or so she spent in angles with Bryan/Punk/Kane/Cena/Ziggler. It's not her ring work that got her where she is right now.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Aug 17, 2013 1:04:12 GMT -5 BigBadZ said:

Aug 17, 2013 0:45:03 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

I agree that women should not be shunned by their looks, but I don't think we should dismiss beautiful women as being "too hot to function" either.

WWE doesn't hire these women solely as eye candy. I think ideally, they'd like to have another Trish Stratus, someone with obvious sex appeal who can learn the ropes and become a serviceable worker down the line.

I came here to say this. WWE wants Trish Stratus type of divas. Sexy models who are good in the ring. They'll pick one or two up but they have just have a better record at choosing models who can't cross over in the ring.

It's a shame that Eve left. She was the closest thing they had to a Diva reaching that point. And her BJJ background made her "legit" as well.

[BigBadZ]

Aug 17, 2013 1:14:30 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

Aug 17, 2013 1:04:12 GMT -5 BigBadZ said:

I came here to say this. WWE wants Trish Stratus type of divas. Sexy models who are good in the ring. They'll pick one or two up but they have just have a better record at choosing models who can't cross over in the ring.

It's a shame that Eve left. She was the closest thing they had to a Diva reaching that point. And her BJJ background made her "legit" as well.

Agreed. Also ties into the point you were making about WWE not only going for eye candy models. Eve came from the Diva search, as did Layla. Of course, I can't really remember much about the Diva searches because at the time, I thought they just wanted some more boobs for us to look at.

[Old Jack Burton]

Aug 17, 2013 1:10:44 GMT -5 rnrk supports BLM said:

Aug 17, 2013 0:43:30 GMT -5 Old Jack Burton said:

AJ Lee, the top diva of the moment, is a pure wrestler

AJ was barely even wrestling for the year or so she spent in angles with Bryan/Punk/Kane/Cena/Ziggler. It's not her ring work that got her where she is right now.

She was on the B shows and house shows working her butt off. And if she had to prance around the ring with Team Rocket for a while, well, that's part of pro wrestling too.

Anyway, I was referring to the fact AJ was not a known model or bodybuilder before entering the industry. This was always her life-long goal.

[rybackrulez]

Meh these girls are hot and sexy. When given time they can work. Trish was a fitness model, but she became a damn good wrestler. As was victoria. Molly Holly wasn't always the best. But hey the divas used to get time for their matches and segments.

It is better now than the past 5 years though.

I have no problem saying these are hot females.

Feminism has been degenerated into soap boxing and man bashing instead of an equal rights movement.

[Jedi-El of Tomorrow]

Aug 17, 2013 1:29:11 GMT -5 BigBadZ said:

Aug 17, 2013 1:14:30 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

It's a shame that Eve left. She was the closest thing they had to a Diva reaching that point. And her BJJ background made her "legit" as well.

Agreed. Also ties into the point you were making about WWE not only going for eye candy models. Eve came from the Diva search, as did Layla. Of course, I can't really remember much about the Diva searches because at the time, I thought they just wanted some more boobs for us to look at.

Michelle McCool, and Maryse also came from the Diva Searches. Maria did as well, but she didn't get to McCool or Maryse's in ring work, she did have the ditz act which was awesome.

[rybackrulez]

Honestly how are the divas supposed to get better when all they get is 5 minute nothing matches and a mixed tag match?

[Bishblast]

Even though it's a "classier" (fill in your own definition) representation of the women on the shows that they're taking to nowadays than any of the Debra/Sable/Kat-trying-to-get-naked-every-week type stuff, some of the more uncomfortable things they did with Nidia in the day, the infamous dog barking segment with Trish, some elements from the first couple of Diva's Search contests, etc., I do find that sometimes their handling of the women's division and the characters in it comes off as mean spirited or condescending, from time to time.

It's just something that I've gotten used to over the years... it's WWE, so I expect poor taste even in the PG project, and to feel that I'm watching something that treats me dumb. As long as the key figures in place are still in place, I don't see any of that changing too drastically anytime soon. Does it bother me from time to time? Sure, but I still watch WWE and go to their shows when they come to town.

I would absolutely love if we could get a serious, or at least half serious women's division going here... there are ladies in the WWE, that even if they aren't already noticeably talented all around, most of them at least have some potential. I think the best thing they can do with their current hiring and training practices (for most cases) is to really keep these girls off of WWE TV until they are more or less ready to go and do a six minute match live on Raw with a new opponent without too many problems. I think the current incarnation NXT is a great attempt at pretty much what I'm saying here... it's not all going to be good, and some of it's going to be bad, but it's best to get them ready to go before throwing them to the wolves. As well, some of these people who maybe come in with less than sincere passion for the business and want to be rushed to TV would get weeded out, and you'd be left with the people who really wanted to do wrestling.

Back to the objectification, I'll restate that I think they're better now than at certain times in the past 15 or so years, but... it's obviously still there.

[wallabylikeyou]

As with many things, one way to improve this is to get rid of Jerry Lawler.

[Wolf Hurricane]

Aug 17, 2013 6:16:50 GMT -5 rybackrulez said:

Meh these girls are hot and sexy. When given time they can work. Trish was a fitness model, but she became a damn good wrestler. As was victoria. Molly Holly wasn't always the best. But hey the divas used to get time for their matches and segments.

It is better now than the past 5 years though.

I have no problem saying these are hot females.

Feminism has been degenerated into soap boxing and man bashing instead of an equal rights movement.

'Kay, this last part is a non-sequitor I won't get into, but for the most part I agree. There's nothing wrong with making attractive women the face of the division, so long as they can wrestle as well. Even with the men, it doesn't hurt to be better looking: Chris Jericho and Dean Malenko are both talented as hell, but Jericho had the edge of looking like a rockstar (even before he was one) - that's, in part, what got him the world title Malenko never saw.

There's nothing wrong with looks being a factor, so long as it's not the primary factor or the exclusive factor. Mickie James and Melina were hot as hell, but they were also great workers, so it made sense to make them big players in the Divas division. Compare women like Kelly Kelly who, for all her looks, had no business being the face of anything because she was really deficit in the wrestling area.