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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 20, 2013 9:00:45 GMT -5
Ole is a guy that I've long felt was overlooked and under appreciated in the modern era. I think part of that has to do with his bad blood with McMahon, ensuring he's all but ignored by what many casual fans view as the only "real" wrestling company left, as well as Dave Meltzer concluding that the Minnesota Wrecking Crew weren't HOF worthy because "they didn't travel" and holding Ole 100% responsible for all the ridiculous crap that got booked during the Jim Herd era. I've even seen someone, I think on this very board, say that Ole was the weak link in the Horsemen because he wasn't a good promo. Well, I'm a huge fan of the guy, so here's some video footage proving he was a hell of a talker. And as a booker? Well, he booked the whole angle of the first video, and at one time booked both Georgia and Mid-Atlantic at the same time while both were doing good business. I may not be able to undo revisionist history, and Ole may not give a damn, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCIgLQGruvswww.youtube.com/watch?v=kWHY314WgFswww.youtube.com/watch?v=G2W63rYGcQI
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 20, 2013 13:38:35 GMT -5
Didn't he do a lot of that himself via burning bridges?
Good points otherwise.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Aug 20, 2013 20:57:38 GMT -5
He was a good interview. He has sound psychology you just don't see often anymore. Everything he and Arn did(too young for Ole and Gene), fit perfectly in the match and it had a reason. everything. As far as his not going to the HOF, there isn't going to be Bruno levels of interest. There is almost no money in it, so they won't do it. Ole stood his ground to Vince and every promoter he ever came up against. I respect that. But telling Vince **** you and your wife, are you are offered a job making more money than you ever had made, than you earned that all on your own.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 20, 2013 21:33:58 GMT -5
Ole is a guy that I've long felt was overlooked and under appreciated in the modern era. I think part of that has to do with his bad blood with McMahon, ensuring he's all but ignored by what many casual fans view as the only "real" wrestling company left, as well as Dave Meltzer concluding that the Minnesota Wrecking Crew weren't HOF worthy because "they didn't travel" and holding Ole 100% responsible for all the ridiculous crap that got booked during the Jim Herd era. I've even seen someone, I think on this very board, say that Ole was the weak link in the Horsemen because he wasn't a good promo. Well, I'm a huge fan of the guy, so here's some video footage proving he was a hell of a talker. And as a booker? Well, he booked the whole angle of the first video, and at one time booked both Georgia and Mid-Atlantic at the same time while both were doing good business. I may not be able to undo revisionist history, and Ole may not give a damn, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCIgLQGruvswww.youtube.com/watch?v=kWHY314WgFswww.youtube.com/watch?v=G2W63rYGcQII don't think Ole get buried by revisionist history because he barely gets mentioned in revisionist history. I would say, based on the little I've seen of him, Ole's flaws in the modern era are lack of workrate and that the biggest angle of his career was at the end of his career
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Surfer Sandman
Bubba Ho-Tep
You had to be a big shot, didn't cha
Posts: 506
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Aug 20, 2013 21:37:27 GMT -5
Ole is just a bitter old f*** that dug his own hole and deserves to sit in it.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 16,502
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Post by Mac on Aug 20, 2013 21:44:12 GMT -5
When people compliment him they still tell you how much of a dick he was.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 21, 2013 11:06:59 GMT -5
Just to address a few points that have been raised:
This one has nothing to do with Ole, but a Hall of Fame shouldn't be based around how much money could be made with it. They could have easily included him in the Horsemen induction. Again, Ole doesn't give a damn, and between that and his health problems, I doubt he would have been there anyway. It speaks to a larger problem of credibility of the Hall itself, but again, people are already accepting it because "That's what it is."
As far as his rebuff of McMahon, I have a hard time blaming him. Ole owned the Georgia territory along with Jack and Jerry Brisco and (I think) Jim Barnett. I need to brush up on my history a bit. He had begun to grow suspicious that the partners would try to sell out to McMahon, giving him control of the territory, despite their assurances that they would not sell. He even consulted his lawyer, who assured him that it couldn't happen that way. Obviously, it did. Ole challenged it in court, based on the advice of his lawyer. It was quickly upheld. Then Vince offered him the job. Think of it like this: you own your business. You love it, you are successful at it. Then, because of some secret negotiations that you were not a part of and wanted no part of, you lose that business. Then the guy who took over your business essentially says, "Come work for me. I do the same thing you did, but I do it in a completely different fashion that you can't stand. That's what I'm going to do with what used to be your business." As far as money goes, Ole was making plenty and was smart with it. Maybe saying, "...and f*** her, too!" was unnecessary. But saying it to Vince? I don't blame him at all. And, considering that he had already rebuffed Vince twice at the time that happened, I suppose he felt Vince wasn't getting the message. I'm not saying he couldn't have picked a better way to do it, but there's no questions about where you stand with Ole. He'll tell you with no stage dressing.
Barely mentioning someone in a historical context pretty much IS burying them. Do it long enough and people who didn't already know better will figure, "Well, he must not have been that big of a deal. No one ever talks about him." As far as work rate goes, I guess it depends on the definition, which I've honestly never been clear about. If it means "doing a lot of different moves," than I suppose he didn't. If that's the case, then Ric Flair, Bret Hart, HBK, and several others didn't have a whole lot going for them in that department. If it means putting things together in a way that both makes sense and is entertaining, then he had it in spades.
The only thing I've found Ole to be bitter about is his health. He stayed out of the party scene, worked out regularly, etc. and now MS is kicking his ass. He has opinions, and as mentioned, he's a very plain spoken person. Someone asks him how he feels about Vince McMahon, corporate wrestling in general, or someone he feels wasn't as talented as they thought they were, and he answers them. There is a big difference between bluntly answering questions and being bitter.
I have no doubt that he was a dick to work for. Maybe even to be around. In my experience, he's aware of his reputation and plays into it. Typically, of course, everyone takes everything he says 100% seriously. My main thought on this one is that if we're going to start holding being a dick over the heads of wrestlers or entertainers in general, we'd best be ready to hold it over damn near everyone. Personally, I'm not sure what it has to do with someone's reputation as a performer.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 21, 2013 13:01:21 GMT -5
Ole was a territory top draw for years before the Horsemen, where he was basically relegated to being fourth-in-line of a large angle/gimmick. Small pond, big fish worked best for him. Well, medium-sized pond, rather.
I don't see Ole as bitter, just very gruff and very blunt. He'd be this way if he'd won the billion-dollar lottery. He's just...Ole.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Aug 21, 2013 14:20:41 GMT -5
I'd be pissed too if you take a blood oath with the Briscos and the two faced bastards still sold their shares to McMahon. That stooge "act" Gerald does is no act.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 21, 2013 19:44:30 GMT -5
Ah yes, the blood oath. I had not mentioned that. That whole part was kind of bizarre.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 23, 2013 16:52:16 GMT -5
Ah yes, the blood oath. I had not mentioned that. That whole part was kind of bizarre. before you enact a blood oath you better make sure the other people consider a blood oath binding
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 19:44:57 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Ole, I just wanted to use this.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 23, 2013 21:04:40 GMT -5
I haven't seen nearly as much of his work as I'd like, but Ole's promos in his latter days feuding with Dusty were just the stuff of legend. Great, great talker.
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