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Post by Red Impact on Aug 24, 2013 16:53:33 GMT -5
I work in healthcare and health insurance. That type of injury, care, and hospitalization easily goes past $250,000. What his portion of that to pay was is up in the air depending on insurance. I'd actually be really surprised that any kind of health insurance would pay that since it's a work-related injury. This is just from personal experience, though. Every company and insurance policy is different. Interesting. My mistake, I underestimated how much more expensive it being an emergency would have made it. (I'm in the field, but not involved in the billing side so much).
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 24, 2013 17:07:43 GMT -5
I remember seeing Sicko and being shocked at how badly people got screwed over...even when they had insurance.
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Post by Error on Aug 24, 2013 17:17:51 GMT -5
Truthfully, if Sorensen was really smearing TNA, why hasn't anyone there come out to say "Hey, Jesse is lying. We paid his bills in full"? I'm sure there could be documentation too that could be used as proof. It's been what, one week since this story broke, but no one has come out to deny it. Why is that? Probably because they can't. Because privacy laws would prevent it most likely. Unless he signed some sort of release I'd think HIPPA and other privacy laws would prevent anyone but Jessy from discussing his medical situation including the bills.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 24, 2013 17:20:47 GMT -5
Truthfully, if Sorensen was really smearing TNA, why hasn't anyone there come out to say "Hey, Jesse is lying. We paid his bills in full"? I'm sure there could be documentation too that could be used as proof. It's been what, one week since this story broke, but no one has come out to deny it. Why is that? Probably because they can't. Because privacy laws would prevent it most likely. Unless he signed some sort of release I'd think HIPPA and other privacy laws would prevent anyone but Jessy from discussing his medical situation including the bills. I don't think it would be breaking any laws for Dixie, or Bischoff or anyone else, to come out and say "You know that story floating around about Sorensen? It's not true." Or, if they absolutely couldn't given an official response, get on the phone to PWI, or PWTorch or Meltzer and tell them it's not true. They could easily refute this story. They aren't.
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Post by Error on Aug 24, 2013 17:30:50 GMT -5
Because privacy laws would prevent it most likely. Unless he signed some sort of release I'd think HIPPA and other privacy laws would prevent anyone but Jessy from discussing his medical situation including the bills. I don't think it would be breaking any laws for Dixie, or Bischoff or anyone else, to come out and say "You know that story floating around about Sorensen? It's not true." Or, if they absolutely couldn't given an official response, get on the phone to PWI, or PWTorch or Meltzer and tell them it's not true. They could easily refute this story. They aren't. If it falls under privacy laws they couldn't say anything, it's against the law and I doubt the want to pay the heavy fines for it. They couldn't even leak a response without issue. Plus it's not like anyone would actually believe them as evidenced by this thread so why take it public? Either way people have judged them guilty, they either didn't take care of a near cripple or they are judged to be picking on one if they challenge his story.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 24, 2013 17:34:56 GMT -5
If people have judged them guilty already its only because they have a history of this and numerous people in the industry have complained about it too.
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Post by Error on Aug 24, 2013 17:43:14 GMT -5
If people have judged them guilty already its only because they have a history of this and numerous people in the industry have complained about it too. So yeah, like I said, without knowing fact one about this situation they are being judged as guilty. Why should TNA even bother making a claim that won't be believed by the vast majority? Just stay quiet and let the people who know nothing of this situation continue to judge on the nothing they know.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 24, 2013 17:53:22 GMT -5
If people have judged them guilty already its only because they have a history of this and numerous people in the industry have complained about it too. So yeah, like I said, without knowing fact one about this situation they are being judged as guilty. Why should TNA even bother making a claim that won't be believed by the vast majority? Just stay quiet and let the people who know nothing of this situation continue to judge on the nothing they know. Facts we do know: Sorensen claims his bills were not paid. Echoing the complaints of Daffney, Jesse Neal, Konnan and God knows who else. There have been at least two lawsuits over the matter. Another fact. Numerous respected reporters, including Dave Meltzer, have taken TNA to task for this matter various times over the years. None have ever been sued by TNA for libel. TNA refuse to discuss the matter. And as for all "they aren't allowed to talk about it" issue, WWE specifically mention on their corporate they cover in ring injures and Linda McMahon has frequently talked about it in interviews. If it looks like a dog, walks like a dog and barks like a dog, it's a dog, you know?
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 24, 2013 18:01:13 GMT -5
So yeah, like I said, without knowing fact one about this situation they are being judged as guilty. Why should TNA even bother making a claim that won't be believed by the vast majority? Just stay quiet and let the people who know nothing of this situation continue to judge on the nothing they know. Facts we do know: Sorensen claims his bills were not paid. Echoing the complaints of Daffney, Jesse Neal, Konnan and God knows who else. There have been at least two lawsuits over the matter. Another fact. Numerous respected reporters, including Dave Meltzer, have taken TNA to task for this matter various times over the years. None have ever been sued by TNA for libel. TNA refuse to discuss the matter. And as for all "they aren't allowed to talk about it" issue, WWE specifically mention on their corporate they cover in ring injures. If it looks like a dog, walks like a dog and barks like a dog, it's a dog, you know? Claims...claims are not facts, Konnan has proven himself time and again to be a lying sack of shit, "god knows who else" isn't a person and doesn't count in this scenario and Daffney and Jesse Neal I'll give you although that's two in the sea of lots of TNA guys getting hurt, guys including Sabin, AJ, Joe, The Pope etc. none of whom got shit on so TNA's track record for helping is better than their track record for not helping so you'll just ignore that. Jesse Sorenson hasn't exactly proved that he's the most open and honest person since being released, changing his story multiple times and the weird BS with his fundraiser proves that he's not exactly a straight up individual either. Dirt sheets are dirt sheets, if a wrestling company was to come out and refute everything that was on the sheets they'd have no time for anything else. If TNA has a privacy act in place then they can't talk about it, it's nothing to do with what the WWE is doing because that all depends on their contracts and their policies. TNA is not the WWE and that's just the fact. Even if TNA did refute the claims what's the point, you've already made up your mind and TNA coming and trying to clear their names isn't going to change that.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 24, 2013 18:03:42 GMT -5
HIPPA covers providers, billers, etc., not third parties. Since TNA isn't the entity providing the medical care, they could talk about the injury unless there's another statute that covers them.
Although I can guarantee you that WWE has their employees sign waivers when they disclose medical information. It'd be stupid not to.
As far as libel suits go, for a public group like TNA, that's actually not that straight forward. Getting a libel suit off the ground is extremely difficult, and often times just not worth it. (Speaking from my past life as a journalist, we had a lot of training regarding this). You have to prove damages to win a libel suit, which TNA would have a very hard time proving. Unless they can prove that these suits are costing them money, there's really no point in going forward with one. You also have to prove that it was false and that the person who reported it either knew it was false or made no effort to find out if something was true, which is also difficult to prove because even if you gave a no comment earlier, that can come back against you.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 24, 2013 18:08:52 GMT -5
Only thing Sorensen seems to have lied about was that whole deal with the disgruntled blog post right after he got released (the one he probably wrote then claimed someone else had when it caused a fuss).
And,as noted, you can't hold not speaking badly about the company while under contract against him.
He's certainly not some Paul Heyman-type who's always lying to everyone. He never said "TNA paid my medical bills" only to change his mind later on. As far as I know, the highspots shoot is the time he's ever spoken outright about it.
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Aug 24, 2013 19:36:00 GMT -5
HIPPA covers providers, billers, etc., not third parties. Since TNA isn't the entity providing the medical care, they could talk about the injury unless there's another statute that covers them. Ding ding ding. TNA can come out at any point and say they paid his medical bills. What they couldn't get into would be saying "We paid Dr. Smith $1,000 toward his spinal surgery" or something specific like that.
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Post by Error on Aug 24, 2013 20:02:37 GMT -5
HIPPA covers providers, billers, etc., not third parties. Since TNA isn't the entity providing the medical care, they could talk about the injury unless there's another statute that covers them. Ding ding ding. TNA can come out at any point and say they paid his medical bills. What they couldn't get into would be saying "We paid Dr. Smith $1,000 toward his spinal surgery" or something specific like that. I stand somewhat corrected. I thought they wouldn't be able to talk at all if affected by privacy laws. That said, I still see no reason for them to say anything when damn near no one would believe them anyway.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 24, 2013 20:14:15 GMT -5
There's no point in coming out with info about it. If TNA is or isn't allowed they should just be quiet about it? Why?
1. If they release a statement saying "We assisted Sorensen with his medical bills" people will leap at them for it and say "ASSISTED?! WHY NOT ALL RAH RAH RAH" and it makes TNA look bad
2. If TNA outright says "We weren't in a financial position to assist Sorensen" which with 250,000 dollars worth of medical bills is a very high amount and not something you can expect TNA to really pay by itself entirely. People will whine and complain about how TNA is ran by millionaires and they suck for not doing it
3. If TNA did pay all of it (Which if the 250,000 figure is correct I doubt) and they outright say "We paid Jesse's bills 100%" people are just going to go back to whining about the alleged "job for life" thing
4. If TNA says ANYTHING at all you give Sorensen publicity which is what the guy wants right now. If you ignore him he won't get any publicity for his lame crusade against TNA.
5. Nobody outside of the internet cares enough about what Jesse Sorensen has to say. Maybe if it was Hulk Hogan going out doing the rounds saying TNA refused to pay for a surgery he needed it'd be worth going public with but Sorensen? No.
So yeah, All those reasons are why TNA should keep quiet. If it's against the law that's a 6th reason.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 20:47:20 GMT -5
There's no point in coming out with info about it. If TNA is or isn't allowed they should just be quiet about it? Why? 1. If they release a statement saying "We assisted Sorensen with his medical bills" people will leap at them for it and say "ASSISTED?! WHY NOT ALL RAH RAH RAH" and it makes TNA look bad 2. If TNA outright says "We weren't in a financial position to assist Sorensen" which with 250,000 dollars worth of medical bills is a very high amount and not something you can expect TNA to really pay by itself entirely. People will whine and complain about how TNA is ran by millionaires and they suck for not doing it 3. If TNA did pay all of it (Which if the 250,000 figure is correct I doubt) and they outright say "We paid Jesse's bills 100%" people are just going to go back to whining about the alleged "job for life" thing 4. If TNA says ANYTHING at all you give Sorensen publicity which is what the guy wants right now. If you ignore him he won't get any publicity for his lame crusade against TNA. 5. Nobody outside of the internet cares enough about what Jesse Sorensen has to say. Maybe if it was Hulk Hogan going out doing the rounds saying TNA refused to pay for a surgery he needed it'd be worth going public with but Sorensen? No. So yeah, All those reasons are why TNA should keep quiet. If it's against the law that's a 6th reason. You absolutely love to call any negative opinion of TNA as "being whiney", don't you? You used that as the backbone for most of those bullet points, and quite frankly, it's really beginning to come off as condescending. Not trying to start anything with you, but you really need to look at how you feel about anyone with a differing opinion from yours'. - Anyway. Let's be completely honest here. Whether TNA is obligated to help pay Jesse's legal bills or not, they're the second biggest wrestling company in America, and want to portray a certain image. IF they didn't help him, or did the bare minimum, they're coming off as extremely bush league, and giving people more and more reasons to see them as second rate. There is such a thing as morality, and the guy literally broke his neck for you. They should feel like they owe him at least something, IF they truly didn't help him pay at all. Note the IFs.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 24, 2013 21:34:06 GMT -5
There's no point in coming out with info about it. If TNA is or isn't allowed they should just be quiet about it? Why? 1. If they release a statement saying "We assisted Sorensen with his medical bills" people will leap at them for it and say "ASSISTED?! WHY NOT ALL RAH RAH RAH" and it makes TNA look bad 2. If TNA outright says "We weren't in a financial position to assist Sorensen" which with 250,000 dollars worth of medical bills is a very high amount and not something you can expect TNA to really pay by itself entirely. People will whine and complain about how TNA is ran by millionaires and they suck for not doing it 3. If TNA did pay all of it (Which if the 250,000 figure is correct I doubt) and they outright say "We paid Jesse's bills 100%" people are just going to go back to whining about the alleged "job for life" thing 4. If TNA says ANYTHING at all you give Sorensen publicity which is what the guy wants right now. If you ignore him he won't get any publicity for his lame crusade against TNA. 5. Nobody outside of the internet cares enough about what Jesse Sorensen has to say. Maybe if it was Hulk Hogan going out doing the rounds saying TNA refused to pay for a surgery he needed it'd be worth going public with but Sorensen? No. So yeah, All those reasons are why TNA should keep quiet. If it's against the law that's a 6th reason. Let's be completely honest here. Whether TNA is obligated to help pay Jesse's legal bills or not, they're the second biggest wrestling company in America, and want to portray a certain image. IF they didn't help him, or did the bare minimum, they're coming off as extremely bush league, and giving people more and more reasons to see them as second rate. There is such a thing as morality, and the guy literally broke his neck for you. They should feel like they owe him at least something, IF they truly didn't help him pay at all. Note the IFs. TNA may be the number 2 company but 250,000 for a Lower Midcard wrestler is A LOT of money. I'm sure they helped out quite a bit (Probably 25-50k) but 250k just probably isn't a viable option for anyone including their main stars.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Aug 24, 2013 21:42:41 GMT -5
Also, I imagine Sorensen's bills were hundreds of thousands of dollars. How many 23 year olds have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank? Do we know how long he was hospitalized and how many surgeries he had? Hundreds of Thousands sounds a bit high too me, but it is possible depending on what he had to have done. It is not out of the question at all. I have a collaborating PI at work who recently experienced something like this. Her parents had flown in from Thailand to visit her family and he had a stroke while he was here. Since he is a retiree from another nation (where health care is very affordable), he had no insurance. She and her husband are going to get stuck with the bills. Both of them are MDs, so they make good money and even they have no idea how they are going to pay for it all. The bills for dealing with a stroke easily exceeded $300,000, so dealing with a severe neck injury would likely go well beyond that. Part of the problem is how health care providers charge for their services. Let me give you an example: I was going through my bills today. I received a bill for a echocardiogram done on my son (standard protocol to do for anyone that has any form of muscular dystrophy). The initial charge was $796. The adjusted charge (which is what your insurance company negotiates to be the the charged amount) was $75. This means that the hospital could charged $75 from the onset and still made money, but they charge more than 10X that amount just because. Even if his mother had insurance on him, that doesn't settle anything. First, there can a huge difference between policies. Secondly, the amount of leverage that different insurance companies can exert on health care providers can vary significantly. Medicare/Medicaid as well as Blue Cross/Blue Shield has the weight of the federal government behind them and can basically tell the provider what they may charge. My insurance company had a fair amount of influence on the provider that serviced my son because not only is it the provider for one of the largest employers in the state, but that employer happens to own the hospital in question. Unfortunately for Sorenson's mother, unless she works for the federal government or works for a large employer in Florida, it is likely that her insurance company does not have a lot of leverage to use in the negotiation of price of service. The health care providers in Florida have no reason to fear upsetting the insurance company by refusing to drop their inflated prices by much. The insurance company knows how much it really costs to provide the services, but without leverage they cannot negotiate for anything near that. That is how Sorenson's share of the medical bill can easily bankrupt him and his mother.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 24, 2013 21:47:41 GMT -5
I do feel truly sorry for Sorensen's mom. And God knows what she'll do if he injures his neck wrestling again.
How is this even legal?
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 24, 2013 21:59:40 GMT -5
I do feel truly sorry for Sorensen's mom. And God knows what she'll do if he injures his neck wrestling again. How is this even legal? It's a capitalistic system, so there's nothing inherently illegal and there's pretty much no standard for medical billing. The reimbursements are usually guided by Medicare, but it's basically a barter system, they set really high prices and then negotiate with the payers for the true price.
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Post by velvetsthong on Aug 25, 2013 0:26:10 GMT -5
From Highspots.com Sorensen told HighSpots.com that TNA wouldn't pay for his medical bills and instead had his mother cover the expenses with her own insurance. She inevitably went bankrupt trying to pay the extras, premiums and other costs associated with his bills. That's not possible. Someone else's insurance isn't/won't cover another person who isn't insured.
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