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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 22:31:36 GMT -5
And what's that? Make Daniel Bryan look like an idiot? Look, I understand stacking the odds against him and so forth. And they've been screwing him left and right. But a reasonable person at this point would have done something about it. Apparently, Bryan doesn't seem to mind too much, because he refuses to seek out any real retribution against his conspirators. I'm not seeing your point. Daniel Bryan has gone out there in nearly no-win situations to fight hard and prove himself and each time the numbers game gets to him just like it's always done with stables such as this. How does that make him look like an idiot? His entire gameplan seems to be, "Well, maybe they won't jump me this time!" And in regards to the match with Orton he seems completely unwilling to consider the idea that it'll be anything but a clean one-on-one match, when any remotely intelligent person would probably be petitioning the board to agree that Triple H will be removed from his position if he or the Shield interferes or if he's found to be using his power to influence anyone else to do so.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Sept 2, 2013 22:31:43 GMT -5
Wrestling doesn't do real underdogs often. Usually, the faces show they can pretty much kick anyone's ass and the heels just slink away or have to resort to shenanigans to not look awful. We're used to faces like Stone Cold and Cena, the latter of whom in particular got called an underdog when it was laughable. So it's jarring when they do a story with an honest to god underdog that doesn't look like he can win. But that's kind of the problem. Bryan can win. He just beat John f***ing Cena at SummerSlam last month, clean as a whistle, which almost never happens. Tonight though, Bryan beating Big Show was made out to be seemingly impossible. There's making a guy look like a underdog and then there's making him look inept. The WWE is starting to lean toward the latter right now. When Bryan was busting his ass and kicking the hell out of the Shield, but failing because he was outnumbered 5-1 I was totally happy. They showed that Bryan is a serious threat to anyone on the roster but he can't overpower an entire group at once. Now though, the Big Show sees Bryan as someone he has to take it easy on so he doesn't crush him. That's not a underdog, that's a midcarder.
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Post by Snaptastic on Sept 2, 2013 22:32:15 GMT -5
I'll forgive Show being involved if he somehow screws Orton over at NoC. Although his track record suggests he's going to stick D-Bry.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Sept 2, 2013 22:32:47 GMT -5
I said it in the Raw thread. I like this storyline because it feels like it is building up to something and its not for NOC. I don't want to believe it is for Cena either. For example: they beat down Dolph and Daniel, fired Cody, made Big Show cry. Miz was involved too. Eventually these guy will rise up. Big show even said that this week shit just got real. Sarabi and the rest of the lioness did not rise up until Simba gave them hope. The wwe is still in fairly good shape right now but it won't take long until it becomes a waste land just like pride rock. The hyenas (shield) will probably turn too and Scar (Orton) will be dethroned. I thought Scar would be Triple H. Also, who the hell is Zazu? Zack Ryder?
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Sept 2, 2013 22:33:27 GMT -5
I said it in the Raw thread. I like this storyline because it feels like it is building up to something and its not for NOC. I don't want to believe it is for Cena either. For example: they beat down Dolph and Daniel, fired Cody, made Big Show cry. Miz was involved too. Eventually these guy will rise up. Big show even said that this week shit just got real. Sarabi and the rest of the lioness did not rise up until Simba gave them hope. The wwe is still in fairly good shape right now but it won't take long until it becomes a waste land just like pride rock. The hyenas (shield) will probably turn too and Scar (Orton) will be dethroned. I thought Scar would be Triple H. Also, who the hell is Zazu? Zack Ryder? Has to be Maddox doesn't it? Either he's Zazu or he's Ed.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Sept 2, 2013 22:33:30 GMT -5
Big show crying made that hilarious. I hope Triple H makes him wrestle in a diaper and bib.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Sept 2, 2013 22:34:07 GMT -5
]But that's kind of the problem. Bryan can win. He just beat John f***ing Cena at SummerSlam last month, clean as a whistle, which almost never happens. Tonight though, Bryan beating Big Show was made out to be seemingly impossible. There's making a guy look like a underdog and then there's making him look inept. The WWE is starting to lean toward the latter right now. When Bryan was busting his ass and kicking the hell out of the Shield, but failing because he was outnumbered 5-1 I was totally happy. They showed that Bryan is a serious threat to anyone on the roster but he can't overpower an entire group at once. Now though, the Big Show sees Bryan as someone he has to take it easy on so he doesn't crush him. That's not a underdog, that's a midcarder. I still can't believe that he was reluctantly dominated by Big Show, lol.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on Sept 2, 2013 22:34:21 GMT -5
I'm just left wondering why they couldn't give the Nexus this kind of treatment, and actually treat them as a threat.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Sept 2, 2013 22:34:35 GMT -5
And what's that? Make Daniel Bryan look like an idiot? Look, I understand stacking the odds against him and so forth. And they've been screwing him left and right. But a reasonable person at this point would have done something about it. Apparently, Bryan doesn't seem to mind too much, because he refuses to seek out any real retribution against his conspirators. I'm not seeing your point. Daniel Bryan has gone out there in nearly no-win situations to fight hard and prove himself and each time the numbers game gets to him just like it's always done with stables such as this. How does that make him look like an idiot? Well, let's see. 1. It's apparent that it's a set up. 2. He keeps falling for the same set up. 3. He doesn't do anything as a result of getting jumped time and time and time again. You'll argue that he can't do anything, otherwise he'll get fired and so forth. THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM. Triple H and company are holding too many cards here. It shouldn't take 6 beat downs for someone to finally "snap" or to do something about it. Orton is more than likely retaining at the next PPV, so you'd think they may do something to give Bryan some momentum one week, and preferably not the week going into the PPV. This is piss poor booking. I also like the verbal confrontations...the ones that go like this; Bryan: "Triple H used to be an anti-authority bad ass...now he's a sell out." Triple H: "Little troll with anger issues. When you wish upon a staaaaaaar..." I guess I'm the only person who remembers '02-'03.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Sept 2, 2013 22:34:49 GMT -5
I'm not seeing your point. Daniel Bryan has gone out there in nearly no-win situations to fight hard and prove himself and each time the numbers game gets to him just like it's always done with stables such as this. How does that make him look like an idiot? His entire gameplan seems to be, "Well, maybe they won't jump me this time!" And in regards to the match with Orton he seems completely unwilling to consider the idea that it'll be anything but a clean one-on-one match, when any remotely intelligent person would probably be petitioning the board to agree that Triple H will be removed from his position if he or the Shield interferes or if he's found to be using his power to influence anyone else to do so. But Daniel Bryan isn't one to want anyone to help him out in these situations. He'd much rather go out there and fight them all off himself. Why would he start asking other people for help now when he thinks he's perfectly capable of doing it himself?
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Phil Parent
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Post by Phil Parent on Sept 2, 2013 22:35:46 GMT -5
This storyline is a mix of the Attitudal evil boss and the classic 1980's southern-style sack of shit heel. I think Triple H is trying to re-establish the old school dynamic for heels and do away with cool heels that people can cheer. Because there is no way you can cheer the Corporation. There's nothing cool or funny about them. Even the original Corporation had comic relief. This is working good for me anyways. Maybe it's because I enjoyed that old timey NWA wrestling but yeah, I see what they're doing and I really want someone to kick their ass. But they have to be careful as with the current way things are progressing, heel heat will turn into X-Pac heat in a matter of weeks. I don't think it's quite there yet, simply because people really care about Bryan. So they want to see the heels get the hell kicked out of them. You don't want to see a guy that has "X-Pac Heat" (I call it Lesnar VS Goldberg At Wrestlemania Heat, personally) get his ass kicked. You just don't want to see them, period. As long as people care about Bryan (And this is where it gets tricky), the Corporation will have the right kind of heat. And they are not booking Bryan as a total loser even though he loses and finishes face down on the mat every taping. He's not running away, he's game, and as long as they keep him spirited and whiling to take them on, I feel the audience will identify to him, because they too might be under the iron fist of an oppresive boss that uses various cronies to get to them, blocks them from getting ahead and even turns their friends against them, as we've seen tonight. They might just eat their shit-spreaded slice every day, like Bryan. So when he finally gets one up on them, they'll live vicariously through it. The pop will be huge.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 22:35:47 GMT -5
Big show crying made that hilarious. I hope Triple H makes him wrestle in a diaper and bib.
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tenshi
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Post by tenshi on Sept 2, 2013 22:35:57 GMT -5
Man... Triple H's plan is flawed when you think about it.
I mean, why trying to take Bryan out before Night of Champions and sabotage the main event of his PPV just so Orton can get an easy win? People wouldn't buy a PPV if they don't think the challenger can beat the champion and, for the looks of it, Orton has everything in his favor to win. Besides, if Bryan doesn't make it to Night of Champions, what is Orton going to do? Who would he defend the title against? Will he even defend the title at all? We don't have the answers to this because Triple H counts on Bryan rising up to the occasion and get through everything thrown at him despite having all the intentions of taking Bryan out before the PPV.
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Post by Snaptastic on Sept 2, 2013 22:37:26 GMT -5
But they have to be careful as with the current way things are progressing, heel heat will turn into X-Pac heat in a matter of weeks. So when he finally gets one up on them, they'll live vicariously through it. The pop will be huge. Well that's what I'm hoping for. I guess I just don't have that much faith in WWE to pull this off correctly.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Sept 2, 2013 22:38:47 GMT -5
Why would he start asking other people for help now when he thinks he's perfectly capable of doing it himself? Because with Summerslam and the following several weeks, it's clear he ISN'T perfectly capable of doing it himself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 22:39:37 GMT -5
I kind of hope this all builds up to a WWE Civil War for power. I'd like to see the locker rom revolt happen at Night of Champions when all the stars interfere in the title match and attack Orton, HHH, he'll, even have some divas attack Stephanie. Basically, what the "vote of non-confidence" deal should have accomplished. I still love about 80% of this storyline. It feels like there's a ton more life in the shows now than there was before Bryan's push got started. I hate to generalize but I'm almost certain that there are people here upset that Daniel Bryan keeps getting beaten up that were out of their minds during Cena's time at the top. I feel like the complaint that Daniel Bryan keeps getting beat up creates a real paradox of "well what do you want then?". The storyline is progressing even though we keep getting the same ending, the Cody Rhodes story falls into it, the Big Show thing even though it was dumb, was progress. People compare this to Austin 3:16 but this isn't Austin 3:16 shouldn't try to be. Austin made his name by being a wild card ass kicker that's a threat to be around whether it's in the ring or on the streets and his push followed that. Daniel Bryan is a wrestler's wrestler who made his name by kicking ass in the ring, becoming a star in a place where he had no right getting as popular as he is, and his push is based on that. I like that they're taking their time with this, I get peoples' frustrations with shows ending the same way every week, but for me it's just been so long since WWE has lined up babyfaces that I can't wait to see get one over on heels that I can't wait to see get their comeuppance. The Cody Rhodes stuff was fantastic, like, goosebumps worthy fantastic. I really enjoyed Triple H goading Big Show into punching Bryan, though we had to sit through some absurdly dumb stuff to get there. That's where my problems lie, the overall package I love, I think the storyline has made shows from top to bottom a whole lot better. But there are little things, Big Show's plight is a continuity nightmare. I don't like how as much as they're using this Bryan angle to enhance guys that need a boost, they still do stuff like lugging the entire roster out to watch Daniel Bryan's match, and having the entire roster react the exact same way. Cameras don't even really look at them so they might as well be anywhere. But they've been more on point with this for a longer time than any other major angle of the past few years. I'm not saying it's jumped the shark yet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 22:42:53 GMT -5
D-Bry just needs some small victories here and there, he's been beaten down to end shows for weeks so logic would say that he would grab a chair or some sort of weaponry and call out HHH's guys saying something like "I've been beaten down for weeks, if you're beating me down this week I'm going to take some of you with me" at which point he fights off the Shield for a few minutes before Orton or someone sneaks in and RKO's him. Those are the kind of small victories that he needs, he doesn't need to lay out the entire Corporation and drag their bodies around the gates of Troy he just needs to get some good offense in sometimes. Things like that and him escaping a beatdown occasionally would do wonders for making him looking better.
I don't think that the angle is failing or anything at this point, it just needs a little bit of variance. Give the crowd hope that their hero can get the upper hand and then take it from them to build to something bigger.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 2, 2013 22:43:06 GMT -5
If I was able to view this storyline in a vacuum, having faith in the babyface winning out in the end would be far easier. Thing is, I don't have the short-term memory that WWE seems to require of it's Universians, and this all seems too familiar.
Yes the heels will get their comeuppance, but it will not be until the "real" main eventers get involved. One of the McMahons will turn face and represent the babyface "team", and the focus will be moved away from D-Bry in favor of someone else.
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Phil Parent
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Post by Phil Parent on Sept 2, 2013 22:45:29 GMT -5
The whole roster on the stage thing is drawing a parallel with public executions in some oppressive countries. They make people watch them so that they know what awaits if they don't behave.
This is the Corporation saying "See? We're beating this guy into powder. And you can't interfere. If you do, well, powder time for you."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 22:49:24 GMT -5
Yes the heels will get their comeuppance, but it will not be until the "real" main eventers get involved. One of the McMahons will turn face and represent the babyface "team", and the focus will be moved away from D-Bry in favor of someone else. Look on the brighside though, Bryan might get to win the US Title from Ambrose at some point.
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