The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by The OP on Sept 15, 2013 16:06:55 GMT -5
I'm watching that "Untold Story of Wrestling" program that they show on the Biography Network every once in a while and they were just showing footage of Sgt. Slaughter, and it got me thinking, does it seem to anyone else like Slaughter tends to get overlooked when people discuss mainstream crossover stars? I can say from firsthand experience of being a kid in the 1980s that Sgt. Slaughter was a household name and many non-wrestling fans knew who he was because of G.I. Joe. It's worth noting that he had a prominent part in the heavily promoted and surprisingly well done (for what it was) animated film G.I. Joe: The Movie. Even before that he was fairly well known from being a wrestler, which I'd infer is why he was offered the G.I. Joe deal in the first place.
My first thought was that it could be because of the fallout between Slaughter and McMahon over the G.I. Joe deal, but they've worked together a ton of times since then so it seems like that would have been water under the bridge a long time ago. He came back after that and got a main event push and last I knew was still employed by WWE as a road agent, so it's pretty easy to shoot holes in that theory. So what do you suppose it is? Could the backlash against the Slaughter/Hogan feud (an angle derived from a very real U.S. military conflict in Iraq)have something to do with it? I tend to doubt that too, since I remember the kids actually being pretty interested in that storyline even if some of their parents may have found it objectionable.
Do you agree with my premise that Slaughter is an overlooked crossover star? If so, what's your theory? None of mine seem to add up.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 15, 2013 18:06:30 GMT -5
Slaughter was definitely a crossover star, but the bigger point wasn't that he "wasn't" a crossover star, but rather that he left the WWF at the worst possible time due to the crossover stardom to get recognized. By leaving in 1984 [and while Hogan's title win may have started Hulkamania, Wrestlemania I was the definitive moment WWF became truly mainstream], Slaughter missed that first Wrestlemania. Combined with the AWA not capitalizing on Slaughter's crossover appeal very well, the average kid growing up in the '80s knew Sgt. Slaughter as a GI Joe character/spokesman first and a pro wrestler a distant second.
Is Slaughter a crossover star? Definitely- but on the same token, one theory I've been fascinated with, personally, is the "Replacement level" line for various points in pro wrestling (or, outside of the real sports form- basically "who's the absolute worst and/or lowest-level guy who you could still consider to be 'good' and/or fit the mold for a certain group?" Slaughter's definitely "a" crossover star, but he's likely the replacement-level line for a crossover star: If you were a bigger crossover star than Slaughter was, you "were" one, if you were less of a crossover star than Slaughter, you probably weren't one.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 15, 2013 20:00:20 GMT -5
Slaughter was definitely a crossover star, but the bigger point wasn't that he "wasn't" a crossover star, but rather that he left the WWF at the worst possible time due to the crossover stardom to get recognized. By leaving in 1984 [and while Hogan's title win may have started Hulkamania, Wrestlemania I was the definitive moment WWF became truly mainstream], Slaughter missed that first Wrestlemania. Combined with the AWA not capitalizing on Slaughter's crossover appeal very well, the average kid growing up in the '80s knew Sgt. Slaughter as a GI Joe character/spokesman first and a pro wrestler a distant second. Is Slaughter a crossover star? Definitely- but on the same token, one theory I've been fascinated with, personally, is the "Replacement level" line for various points in pro wrestling (or, outside of the real sports form- basically "who's the absolute worst and/or lowest-level guy who you could still consider to be 'good' and/or fit the mold for a certain group?" Slaughter's definitely "a" crossover star, but he's likely the replacement-level line for a crossover star: If you were a bigger crossover star than Slaughter was, you "were" one, if you were less of a crossover star than Slaughter, you probably weren't one. This is absolutely my thinking as well. From the moment he started the GI Joe thing, he basically went completely off the radar in wrestling, at least on a national level. AWA didn't capitalize on it at all, giving him some useless belt and keeping him mostly out of the actual title scene. Even just a year or two removed from his WWF years, the majority of fans (the massive base that arrived for that particular golden era) had no idea who he was, wrestling-wise. To most kids I knew, he was just some guy that they hired to dress up like the GI Joe character to intro episodes or for special appearances on things like the Super Mario show. |
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by The OP on Sept 15, 2013 21:37:01 GMT -5
That's a great point, actually. I first saw him in animated form on G.I. Joe and when he showed up in WWF I only knew he'd been a wrestler before because one of my friends told me. Probably not every kid had a friend who knew that.
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Sept 16, 2013 0:54:02 GMT -5
Slaughter was definitely a crossover star, but the bigger point wasn't that he "wasn't" a crossover star, but rather that he left the WWF at the worst possible time due to the crossover stardom to get recognized. By leaving in 1984 [and while Hogan's title win may have started Hulkamania, Wrestlemania I was the definitive moment WWF became truly mainstream], Slaughter missed that first Wrestlemania. Combined with the AWA not capitalizing on Slaughter's crossover appeal very well, the average kid growing up in the '80s knew Sgt. Slaughter as a GI Joe character/spokesman first and a pro wrestler a distant second. Is Slaughter a crossover star? Definitely- but on the same token, one theory I've been fascinated with, personally, is the "Replacement level" line for various points in pro wrestling (or, outside of the real sports form- basically "who's the absolute worst and/or lowest-level guy who you could still consider to be 'good' and/or fit the mold for a certain group?" Slaughter's definitely "a" crossover star, but he's likely the replacement-level line for a crossover star: If you were a bigger crossover star than Slaughter was, you "were" one, if you were less of a crossover star than Slaughter, you probably weren't one. This is absolutely my thinking as well. From the moment he started the GI Joe thing, he basically went completely off the radar in wrestling, at least on a national level. AWA didn't capitalize on it at all, giving him some useless belt and keeping him mostly out of the actual title scene. Even just a year or two removed from his WWF years, the majority of fans (the massive base that arrived for that particular golden era) had no idea who he was, wrestling-wise. To most kids I knew, he was just some guy that they hired to dress up like the GI Joe character to intro episodes or for special appearances on things like the Super Mario show. So, basically like the ROCK is now... |
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Post by jimmyjames on Sept 16, 2013 2:21:44 GMT -5
I agree about Slaughter being a crossover star. I too first knew him from G.I. Joe., and while I didn't follow wrestling much, and only knew a few wrestlers I had no idea he was a wrestler at first. With something like Hulk Hogan's Rock 'n' Wrestling, you knew they were wrestler, with G.I. Joe, he was another character, even with the live action appearance. You always knew Hogan was a wrestler, with Sgt. Slaughter, you didn't really get that.
Another reason I think he's overlooked, is because he was really only a big crossover star for a short time. At least it seemed like a short time. After a few years, he was someone you recognized, a familiar name if you heard it, but he wasn't over big like he was those couple of years.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 16, 2013 5:11:20 GMT -5
This is absolutely my thinking as well. From the moment he started the GI Joe thing, he basically went completely off the radar in wrestling, at least on a national level. AWA didn't capitalize on it at all, giving him some useless belt and keeping him mostly out of the actual title scene. Even just a year or two removed from his WWF years, the majority of fans (the massive base that arrived for that particular golden era) had no idea who he was, wrestling-wise. To most kids I knew, he was just some guy that they hired to dress up like the GI Joe character to intro episodes or for special appearances on things like the Super Mario show. So, basically like the ROCK is now... It's harder to say for The Rock being similar to Sgt. Slaughter, simply because The Rock's being a pro wrestling star was always pretty well-known- as well as The Rock being a far bigger star "in wrestling" than Slaughter was. The Rock was a main event player for most of the Attitude Era and the face of the WWF/E for a couple years, making his wrestling career far more known. By contrast, Sgt.Slaughter was an upper midcarder, at best, for most of his career, with only the one WWF World Title reign to his credit [and that happened after GI Joe/his crossover stardom ran its course]. |
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Sept 16, 2013 8:26:25 GMT -5
So, basically like the ROCK is now... It's harder to say for The Rock being similar to Sgt. Slaughter, simply because The Rock's being a pro wrestling star was always pretty well-known- as well as The Rock being a far bigger star "in wrestling" than Slaughter was. The Rock was a main event player for most of the Attitude Era and the face of the WWF/E for a couple years, making his wrestling career far more known. By contrast, Sgt.Slaughter was an upper midcarder, at best, for most of his career, with only the one WWF World Title reign to his credit [and that happened after GI Joe/his crossover stardom ran its course]. To an adult... Kids have very little clue about his wrestling career, much like the majority of kids had little clue about Slaughter's career outside of GI Joe. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 8:34:34 GMT -5
Didn't Vince fire Slaughter for signing that GI Joe/Hasbro deal behind his back? That would certainly throw a big wrench in the crossover appeal.
And yeah, GI Joe is how I first heard of Slaughter too. Of course I knew a smidgen about the WWF (and nothing of any other companies) so I figured he was either a former wrestler or an actor who kinda had a wrestling vibe to him...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 8:38:26 GMT -5
the average kid growing up in the '80s knew Sgt. Slaughter as a GI Joe character/spokesman first and a pro wrestler a distant second. He's always on my list of the biggest crossover stars. IMO, this idea you posted is the thing that hinders him as far as his star-power in wrestling is concerned, but it's kind of interesting to think that just about the only wrestlers who have ever shaken that negative pro-wrestler stigma when crossing over into mainstream media are the Sgt. Slaughter and the Rock. Jesse Ventura came close, but he's still thought of as "that wrestler" decades after being involved in pro wrestling. |
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by The OP on Sept 16, 2013 11:26:37 GMT -5
So, basically like the ROCK is now... It's harder to say for The Rock being similar to Sgt. Slaughter, simply because The Rock's being a pro wrestling star was always pretty well-known- as well as The Rock being a far bigger star "in wrestling" than Slaughter was. The Rock was a main event player for most of the Attitude Era and the face of the WWF/E for a couple years, making his wrestling career far more known. By contrast, Sgt.Slaughter was an upper midcarder, at best, for most of his career, with only the one WWF World Title reign to his credit [and that happened after GI Joe/his crossover stardom ran its course]. That may be true in regard to his WWF career, but remember, it was by wrestling for other companies like AWA that he first made a name for himself, and at that time there wasn't as much of a discrepancy between AWA and WWF in terms of the scope and the exposure it afforded the wrestlers. |
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 16, 2013 17:09:01 GMT -5
That may be true in regard to his WWF career, but remember, it was by wrestling for other companies like AWA that he first made a name for himself, and at that time there wasn't as much of a discrepancy between AWA and WWF in terms of the scope and the exposure it afforded the wrestlers. [/quote] That, however, depends on the time. In the '70s and '80s when it was all about territories, there were no discrepancies between territories [and pre-Hulkamania, WWF did push him hard]. Once Wrestlemania hit, though, there was absolutely a discrepancy- the WWF was the single most marketed company in the world. By contrast, AWA only had the one show on ESPN [and got it before it became ESPN, when that show would have made it an instant mega-threat], and again, AWA was never good with capitalizing on crossover success. |
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Sept 16, 2013 21:26:22 GMT -5
Not with people who were named anything but Gagne.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by The OP on Sept 16, 2013 22:20:56 GMT -5
That certainly seems to be true.
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