kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Sept 21, 2013 11:44:58 GMT -5
Meltzer is going to make a one-off comment about how this shows Daniel Bryan doesn't draw and the IWC is going to act like he set a kitten on fire. And it will be glorious! (Future WOR) Alvarez: Summerslam numbers are in, and, uhhh, they're not particularly good. Meltzer: Yeah, not good. Y'know, they had to have expected more with that show. Kind of like the return of Dallas, it was a great show. (Future thread on FAN) "Meltzer Says WWE Should Release Daniel Bryan And That He's A Disgrace To The Business" (Future posts) "f*** Meltzer, sorry Daniel Bryan had a dream to wrestle."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2013 11:52:17 GMT -5
I absolutely love reading the comments on the 411Mania posting of this news piece where everyone's like "Well there's streams now, the product's not like the past, it's expensive" and blah blah blah blah blah blah. Hypocrites will all of a sudden stop with there "things need to change" argument once their guy is the focus and doesn't do the business they expected. Well I've been saying that for years now, no matter what guy gets pushed.
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Post by bigalbass86 AKA Smokin Vokoun on Sept 22, 2013 0:17:28 GMT -5
Is it really fair to blame one person, or a few people for a PPV not drawing well. Isn't it really the responsibility to of the promotion to promote the show the best they can? I mean, I know that it's partially the promotion and partially the talent. But the talent can only do so much to promote a show and be a draw. To me it's up to WWE to make these guys into huge stars and let them become major draws, with well booked shows and story lines. Because with those, all the great matches and all the great promos in the world might mean nothing.
Plus, even it is Punk/Bryan's fault for the low drawing shows, WWE can't panic and just drop them down the card. This is the biggest reason why Wrestlemania has become a show for part timers to be in the big matches, because WWE won't let the guys have the chance to draw. They don't let these guys have a chance to be the stars, and the let the fans see them as a big deal. And even if they don't draw right away, they can't give up on them. No one becomes a gigantic draw over night. No one just becomes a ratings drawer in a day.
And now it seems with Cena being away for awhile, that they are FINALLY letting other guys on the currant roster try and get over as big stars, and so far so good. But if they don't draw big numbers yet, please don't give up on them so soon. The WWE will not go under because Night of Champions or Battleground didn't do every well because you tried to do something different.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Sept 22, 2013 13:37:52 GMT -5
I don't know, I know it's the BRAND that sells (in WWE's case) or doesn't sell well (in TNA's case), but still, Punk & Bryan aren't successful in regards of selling PPV's or elevating TV ratings (don't know the house show & merchandise numbers, don't think they've really improved)
remember Austin & Rock? I know it was a different era, but Austin needed about TWO YEARS to rise from nothing debuting midcarder to super duper main eventer. Rock went from overpushed new green guy to super duper main eventer in exactly 2 years
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Boozeman
Team Rocket
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Post by Boozeman on Sept 22, 2013 13:57:52 GMT -5
Why is John Cena absolved of blame? The common denominator of these two super low Summerslam buyrates is that Cena was in the main event of both.
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bob
Backup Wench
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
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Post by bob on Sept 22, 2013 14:02:50 GMT -5
Is it really fair to blame one person, or a few people for a PPV not drawing well. WWE is not beyond that. They blamed The Miz for the buyrate of Awesome Truth vs Rock and Cena and he was drastically depushed shortly after.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Sept 22, 2013 14:05:52 GMT -5
Is it really fair to blame one person, or a few people for a PPV not drawing well. WWE is not beyond that. They blamed The Miz for the buyrate of Awesome Truth vs Rock and Cena and he was drastically depushed shortly after. of course losing feuds against Cena and youngster Alex Riley didn't damage Miz' credibility coming into Survivors 2011, nope sir
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 15:05:42 GMT -5
Why is John Cena absolved of blame? The common denominator of these two super low Summerslam buyrates is that Cena was in the main event of both. He's not an "indy darling" people are waiting in the wings to try and tear down at any opportunity.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Sept 22, 2013 15:08:03 GMT -5
Why is John Cena absolved of blame? The common denominator of these two super low Summerslam buyrates is that Cena was in the main event of both. He's not an "indy darling" people are waiting in the wings to try and tear down at any opportunity. Oh pleeeeaaaassseeee. It's because Cena atleast has a history of making money for the company. Bryan really doesn't, so it's fair to say that Bryan will potentially be blamed if a downward trend begins.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 15:17:15 GMT -5
He's not an "indy darling" people are waiting in the wings to try and tear down at any opportunity. Oh pleeeeaaaassseeee. It's because Cena atleast has a history of making money for the company. Bryan really doesn't, so it's fair to say that Bryan will potentially be blamed if a downward trend begins. But hardly anyone is bringing up the possiblity that maybe, just maybe, the John Cena gray train is running out. It goes right to a discussion about everyone else. As was said before, he main evented both Summerslams that had those low buyrates.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Sept 22, 2013 15:18:37 GMT -5
Oh pleeeeaaaassseeee. It's because Cena atleast has a history of making money for the company. Bryan really doesn't, so it's fair to say that Bryan will potentially be blamed if a downward trend begins. But hardly anyone is bringing up the possiblity that maybe, just maybe, the John Cena gray train is running out. It goes right to a discussion about everyone else. As was said before, he main evented both Summerslams that had those low buyrates. Okay then. Talk about that. Don't turn it into a whiny "everyone's out to get the IWC and it's homeboys" thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 15:22:08 GMT -5
But hardly anyone is bringing up the possiblity that maybe, just maybe, the John Cena gray train is running out. It goes right to a discussion about everyone else. As was said before, he main evented both Summerslams that had those low buyrates. Okay then. Talk about that. Don't turn it into a whiny "everyone's out to get the IWC and it's homeboys" thing. Not everyone, but if you're denying that the sentiment exists I don't know what to tell you.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Sept 22, 2013 15:26:51 GMT -5
I guess my thought is that really Bryan, Punk, Cena, these guys are on shows all the time, they're constants and can't really be expected to bump things up beyond like whatever the standard buyrate is. I think if Summerslam 2013's buyrate says anything it says that Brock alone on that show wasn't a difference maker, and invites a discussion about what he wasn't and a consideration of his value as an attraction (similar to Extreme Rules 2013 or Elimination Chamber 2013 with Rock). I would read Summerslam 2011 as being the consequence of doing the same match as the last show but with lowered stakes, less intrigue and added bullshit (HHH).
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Sept 22, 2013 15:31:33 GMT -5
Okay then. Talk about that. Don't turn it into a whiny "everyone's out to get the IWC and it's homeboys" thing. Not everyone, but if you're denying that the sentiment exists I don't know what to tell you. I guess but I think the whole thing is stupid on both ends since it all boils down to opinion and who gives a crap?
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Post by Herman The Tosser on Sept 22, 2013 16:27:05 GMT -5
Y'know, I want to wait and see. Daniel Bryan's still relatively untested as being presented in top matches like this. If subsequent numbers on shows he headlines are down compared to the same time last year with more established guys, and pick up when Cena's back and the status quo is restored, then fair enough, Daniel Bryan as "The guy" didn't work. It's unfair to judge ANY wrestler on a "track record" consisting of ONE buyrate.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Sept 22, 2013 19:27:23 GMT -5
Why is John Cena absolved of blame? The common denominator of these two super low Summerslam buyrates is that Cena was in the main event of both. Having headlined the two highest-drawing WWE PPVs of all time probably has something to do with that. If a proven draw versus an unproven draw underperforms, I think the typical thing people will infer is that the less-established guy is the one who wasn't able to hold up his end as far as generating interest. Moreover, I'd argue both years' Summerslam main events were largely built around the ascenion of Punk/Bryan to superstardom in spite of corporate resistance, with Cena himself functioning mainly as a straight man for them to define themselves against. The same goes for Brock, BTW. Even though diminishing returns are clearly setting in, Extreme Rules this year still pulled in around 20k more buys than the last Extreme Rules without any big part-timer stars, and this year's ER was a retread of his last two matches rather than a fresh opponent like he got at Summerslam. I'd say it's extremely unlikely this year's Summerslam didn't bring in any extra buys thanks to Brock's presence, leading me to believe a Lesnar-less card built solely around the Cena/Bryan feud would've performed even worse. (Which is pretty terrible, since if Summerslam 2013 had brought in the same 298k buys without any special appearances, that'd still be a very bad buyrate.) Of course, the real pity of this thread is that it's invariably getting derailed with petulant tantrums over how analysis of this buyrate is trying to "tear down" Punk and Bryan. That CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are poor draws really isn't something that's worth debating over, because it's irrefutable at this stage. What's more worthy of consideration is the fact that Punk and Bryan, in spite of being terrible draws, are still the most over new stars WWE has at the moment, suggesting that turning these numbers around is going to require a significant shift in booking philosophy rather than simply inserting new guys into the main event scene.
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Turd Ferguson
Hank Scorpio
John Cena: Colossal Douche
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Post by Turd Ferguson on Sept 23, 2013 10:22:45 GMT -5
I didn't care about anything on the card other than the main event. I don't remember if Brock or Punk won, or even what else was on the card.
I know a lot of apologists will pile on the excuses after crucifying Cena, but realistically, Cena generates buys.
I don't buy many PPVs throughout the year because the majority of the cards are so underwhelming, regardless of how strong the main events may be. But the chance to see DB/Cena main event was too good for me to pass this one time. So if other people feel the same way, WWE would have less of a problem. Even if they had Cena/Orton with HHH/Shane's missing box of hair dye and Vince Sr's dusty old bones in the main event, just pump up the undercard and I'd go bankrupt buying PPVs.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Sept 23, 2013 10:30:47 GMT -5
Hey guess what I don't care about the buyrate as long as I liked it.
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Boozeman
Team Rocket
Hair and makeup on fleek
Posts: 781
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Post by Boozeman on Sept 24, 2013 6:11:15 GMT -5
Why is John Cena absolved of blame? The common denominator of these two super low Summerslam buyrates is that Cena was in the main event of both. Having headlined the two highest-drawing WWE PPVs of all time probably has something to do with that. If a proven draw versus an unproven draw underperforms, I think the typical thing people will infer is that the less-established guy is the one who wasn't able to hold up his end as far as generating interest. Moreover, I'd argue both years' Summerslam main events were largely built around the ascenion of Punk/Bryan to superstardom in spite of corporate resistance, with Cena himself functioning mainly as a straight man for them to define themselves against. The same goes for Brock, BTW. Even though diminishing returns are clearly setting in, Extreme Rules this year still pulled in around 20k more buys than the last Extreme Rules without any big part-timer stars, and this year's ER was a retread of his last two matches rather than a fresh opponent like he got at Summerslam. I'd say it's extremely unlikely this year's Summerslam didn't bring in any extra buys thanks to Brock's presence, leading me to believe a Lesnar-less card built solely around the Cena/Bryan feud would've performed even worse. (Which is pretty terrible, since if Summerslam 2013 had brought in the same 298k buys without any special appearances, that'd still be a very bad buyrate.) Of course, the real pity of this thread is that it's invariably getting derailed with petulant tantrums over how analysis of this buyrate is trying to "tear down" Punk and Bryan. That CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are poor draws really isn't something that's worth debating over, because it's irrefutable at this stage. What's more worthy of consideration is the fact that Punk and Bryan, in spite of being terrible draws, are still the most over new stars WWE has at the moment, suggesting that turning these numbers around is going to require a significant shift in booking philosophy rather than simply inserting new guys into the main event scene. Wait, so Cena gets credit for the highest drawing PPV's, but no blame for the low drawing ones? Sorry, that's now how this game works. If you're going to say the low Summerslam buyrates are the other guy's fault, then I'm going to say the high Wrestlemania buyrates are credited to the other guy. Take The Rock out of those main events and see how well they hold up. Take the Donald Trump-Vince angle (with Stone Cold involvement) and see how well WM 23 draws. Oh and as for "Daniel Bryan is a terrible draw" -- not only is that comment completely without merit, but it's definitely a surefire way to make sure nobody ever takes your opinion seriously on this board again. But hey, whatever works for you. Thus far, we have one PPV buyrate. TV ratings have held up very well against Monday Night Football. His segments are always big gainers. Until we have a bigger sample size of TV ratings and buyrates, along with definitive numbers on merchandise sales and live attendance, making a blanket statement that "(wrestler) is a terrible draw" just makes you look stupid.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Sept 24, 2013 6:15:43 GMT -5
They had just better not put the blame on that for Bryan I'm getting nervous.. I wouldn't get antsy unless the NOC buyrates are abysmal as well. To be honest, that won't mean anything either. Who the hell else are they going to put in main events?
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