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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 22, 2013 13:12:18 GMT -5
I'll always support Zeb
Zeb Colter Guys are cooler than Paul Heyman's nobodies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 13:15:26 GMT -5
WWE doing Zeb and The 'Murrica Squad as a gimmick and not thinking their fans were going to chant along with them and get face pops is yet another example of how WWE clearly does not know and understand their own fanbase.
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
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Post by StuntGranny® on Oct 22, 2013 13:16:51 GMT -5
Except for the whole Zeb is a racist thing, it could work. Even with that it would work. It's a fact of life that people in general are growing racist towards "foreigners" all the time...at least that's how it appears. ...A fact, you say?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 15:17:37 GMT -5
Even with that it would work. It's a fact of life that people in general are growing racist towards "foreigners" all the time...at least that's how it appears. ...A fact, you say? Yeah - most FACTS end with the qualifier, "at least that's how it appears." Don't you know that fact - at least that how it should appear to you. I dunno - Zeb says heelish stuff, but all they've got to do to REALLY flip them to face mode is have them go against Zeb, calling him to extreme. "We love America, but you're taking it to far." kinda stuff. Los Matadores need to do something to show that they're good guys at this point. They're basically mute wrestlers with no clear motivation or sway towards good OR evil. Which makes their 133rd match against 3MB that much snoozier.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 15:25:52 GMT -5
Easy way to battle the racist Zeb character, just have him cut a promo saying something about Cesaro "IN THE PAST, I may have said he's a real American because he lives the American dream -no not Dusty Rhodes- better than most Americans...but he's still someone not born in the US. However he came here to fulfil his dream, and whilst it may not appeal to EVERYONE I think the vast majority of our fans respect how many great people & wrestlers came to the US to live out their dream. I'm proud of America, and I'm proud of Cesaro and every one who scratches and claws for a better life regardless of where they're from."
I know it sounds very cliche, but keep the We The People phrase and subvert it into a face chant as it IS catchy, and you have an easy run. You don't need to make Zeb into the ultimate good guy, when he's promoing against other teams he can still be a snarky grumpy bastard, but with less focus on the "ANYONE NOT RIGHT WING AND BORN ON AMERICAN SOIL IS SCUM" stuff.
Cesaro & Swagger doing the same stuff they are now, with focus on how damned good they are, along with a fine manager = natural face team.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 22, 2013 15:26:15 GMT -5
Take the geo-politics out of it. This is the perfect storm of pro-wrestling. It's "How to Get a Guy Over" 101. Give talented guys who, at this point, had mixed sucess license to expand. Let them do their thing. Give them a gimmick that's "in the square". Impress the crowd, and give them a catchphrase. Blend and serve. Zeb augments it beautifully. To grow, they should basically give him transcripts of Rush Limbaugh's show (yes, I am a Rush fan, and Sean Hannity comes on during RAW). He could talk about the governmental shutdown (he has), healthcare (touched on it), and other "conservative" topics. Back to the point, many of us criticize Cena et al. when it works because it works too well. Same here. Every wrestler should be initially handled this way, and left up to the fans to decide. Isn't that what "getting over" was? Do "wrasslin" fans generally skew conservative? Yes. Are they striking a xenophobic chord with some people. Maybe. It's simply the crowd gettingbehind a character or gimmick they believe in. {Spoiler}Speaking of Los Matadores, the fact that it's Epico and Primo is the worst kept secret since Stephanie and HHH were married. No one cares because we're all behind the gimmick. Actually, according to WWE's stockholders reports, they sway more liberal. That's said mostly because their strongest markets (NYC, Chicago, California) are stanch liberal strongholds and the rapid rise of the latino market sway incredibly liberal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 15:27:39 GMT -5
Cesaro yes, Swagger no unless he goes full on patriotic.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 22, 2013 15:41:11 GMT -5
I think if you want them to be faces, gotta get rid of Zeb and just let them be two uber badass superheroes.
Also, this is a big thing for me, but they have to find two other big guys to replace them in their role as heels. Swags and Cesaro are such great "dragons" to put up against plucky underdog faces whether they be top guys like Cena or Bryan or low carders like Ryder or Riley. Someone has to replace them in that spot.
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Post by They Killed the Giggler on Oct 22, 2013 17:06:27 GMT -5
It's been longer than 3 weeks. The crowd has been supporting Zeb and Swags since they were feuding with Del Rio. Something I know a lot of people may not or want to recognize is that fans agree with them and their rants. I know this is usually a bad argument, but I really think it has more to do with the catchphrase then anything else. The house show I went to So Cal was probably 80% Latinos. Coulter did the obvious 'you're all illegal immigrants' promo and then EVERYONE still did the catchphrase with them. It's just fun to say. But I'm probably just being really naive (no sarcasm). fun I totally agree with this. It's fun to say,their moves are entertaining,and most fans are aware that it's not to be taken seriously.
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Post by rybackrulez on Oct 22, 2013 17:19:16 GMT -5
I know this is usually a bad argument, but I really think it has more to do with the catchphrase then anything else. The house show I went to So Cal was probably 80% Latinos. Coulter did the obvious 'you're all illegal immigrants' promo and then EVERYONE still did the catchphrase with them. It's just fun to say. But I'm probably just being really naive (no sarcasm). Shit, I say it along with them when watching the TV. It's a surprisingly badass catchphrase. Also, I hope they don't change their music if they turn face. It's so awesome. And don't take Cesaro's flag-cape away from him! A catchphrase helps everybody. Honestly would love to see them face off with the wyatts or the shield. My god if swagger goes full on into an Uncle Slam gimmick with that look i would mark. Swagger is awesome. Cesaro is the best worker on the roster. They should be Singles guys who team up sometimes. They probably are the most over team besides the usos and shield. I would love to see tlc have a tag team fatal four way for the titles Rhodes vs shield vs usos vs real americans would be awesome
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Post by sybaku on Oct 22, 2013 17:22:49 GMT -5
Feud with Wyatt's it'd be easy
Wyatt's vs RA on random raw match During Match Zeb talks shit Post Match Wyatt's kidnap Zeb RA feud with Wyatt's going tweener Wyatt's eventually reveal the kidnapped Zeb and go to destroy him in the ring, RA somehow get incapacitated Latino Face makes the save because "it's the right thing to do" and he is feuding with Bray Zeb apologizes to the Latino guy and turns face along with RA
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Post by Citizen Snips on Oct 22, 2013 17:26:42 GMT -5
They could keep Zeb if they made him less racist and more of a kooky off the grid old uncle-type. Like, if he evens see a smartphone, he pours a pitcher of water on it. "The government's in that phone, dammmit!"
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Post by rybackrulez on Oct 22, 2013 17:30:10 GMT -5
Cranky canktankerous old man spouting truthiness? It would be wierd to see uncle seb play a face character
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 17:33:31 GMT -5
I could see it happening. Cescaro is the most exciting wrestler with his feats of strengths and Swagger is a powerhouse. Plus I'm sure Zeb can flip the switch and cut a really good face promo that doesn't seemed forced, pandering , or taking all of his character away. Even if they book the face turns horribly, Zebs mic skills and mannerisms can make it work.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,884
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Oct 22, 2013 17:53:03 GMT -5
Los Matadores are so woefully pitiful it would be hard not to cheer for their opponents.
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Post by Snaptastic on Oct 22, 2013 18:23:50 GMT -5
I should add I worded my reply in this thread a bit poorly.
I don't now, nor have I ever condoned racism and am of the opinion that it is abhorrent in any situation. The point I was trying to make is that at least in my experience, I've seen racial terms bandied about as if they were nothing which of course is wrong.
Apologies if any offence was caused.
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Post by molson5 on Oct 22, 2013 19:06:10 GMT -5
I really don't think the fans care about the politics. It's not even really a hot political issue at the moment, at least in the vast majority of America. I think it's more because there's something to chant, both Swagger and especially Cesaro have kind of a goofy likability about them, and Cesaro does a move which is 100% intended to get a positive fan reaction when he does it.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Oct 22, 2013 19:19:04 GMT -5
their running entrance is so cool, does anyone had a video of it?
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Post by rybackrulez on Oct 22, 2013 19:58:33 GMT -5
Them charging into the ring and throwing flags is so cool
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Oct 22, 2013 20:38:41 GMT -5
If I have to come to terms with the idea that wrestling fans are either a bunch of xenophobic troglodytes or have such bad taste that they find Jack Swagger entertaining, I think I'd be more comfortable accepting the racism.
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