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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 22, 2013 20:44:15 GMT -5
If I have to come to terms with the idea that wrestling fans are either a bunch of xenophobic troglodytes or have such bad taste that they find Jack Swagger entertaining, I think I'd be more comfortable accepting the racism. I find Jack Swagger entertaining. He's an underrated talent and I love watching him push shit in in the ring.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 22, 2013 23:23:54 GMT -5
Jack Swagger once signed a (legit) autograph with "I love oven-baked sandwiches". So I cannot hate him.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 23, 2013 0:27:17 GMT -5
If I was booking Zeb and his guys, I'd adjust his promos based on his location. When he's in the south and mountain states, which tend to be more conservative, I'd have him condemn them for being uneducated rednecks having teen pregnancies, living in poverty and watching monster trucks while drooling who conservatives like Reagan and Buckley would be ashamed of. When he's in the more liberal and smarkish coastal cities, he should condemn them for not being conservative and traditional enough. Also, he could accuse conservative states of not being conservative enough, which is I think how they should have handled the Glenn Beck situation. He also needs to branch out beyond merely talking about immigration. He should address gay rights, evolution, etc....That would add some variety to the promos.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,016
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Post by nate5054 on Oct 23, 2013 1:03:56 GMT -5
I'll always support Zeb Zeb Colter Guys are cooler than Paul Heyman's nobodies. After hearing interviews with Dutch I'm firmly convinced he's one of the greatest wrestling personalities/minds ever.
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Oct 23, 2013 11:40:30 GMT -5
I'll always support Zeb Zeb Colter Guys are cooler than Paul Heyman's nobodies. After hearing interviews with Dutch I'm firmly convinced he's one of the greatest wrestling personalities/minds ever. Provided you "knock off all that wrasslin' (shizz)!"...
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Oct 23, 2013 11:42:26 GMT -5
Take the geo-politics out of it. This is the perfect storm of pro-wrestling. It's "How to Get a Guy Over" 101. Give talented guys who, at this point, had mixed sucess license to expand. Let them do their thing. Give them a gimmick that's "in the square". Impress the crowd, and give them a catchphrase. Blend and serve. Zeb augments it beautifully. To grow, they should basically give him transcripts of Rush Limbaugh's show (yes, I am a Rush fan, and Sean Hannity comes on during RAW). He could talk about the governmental shutdown (he has), healthcare (touched on it), and other "conservative" topics. Back to the point, many of us criticize Cena et al. when it works because it works too well. Same here. Every wrestler should be initially handled this way, and left up to the fans to decide. Isn't that what "getting over" was? Do "wrasslin" fans generally skew conservative? Yes. Are they striking a xenophobic chord with some people. Maybe. It's simply the crowd gettingbehind a character or gimmick they believe in. Speaking of Los Matadores, the fact that it's Epico and Primo is the worst kept secret since Stephanie and HHH were married. No one cares because we're all behind the gimmick. Actually, according to WWE's stockholders reports, they sway more liberal. That's said mostly because their strongest markets (NYC, Chicago, California) are stanch liberal strongholds and the rapid rise of the latino market sway incredibly liberal. Interesting. Maybe that why Linda can't win...
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 23, 2013 11:51:57 GMT -5
They're afraid to turn Zeb's racism up to eleven, because they really want to avoid another Rap Is Crap kind of situation, which does nothing but make their own fans look bad. They're afraid to make him a real Tea Partier, because being too complicatedly political is a bring-down (and, let's face it, Linda and Vince are probably scared to have him say things they actually agree with and get booed for it). So, it's the kind of fake-racism fans are completely enured to by this point. They're TV-racist. It's ESPECIALLY exciting to chant along with that, because you get the thrill of supporting guys you're not supposed to support, but you don't feel like you're hitching yourself to anything actually dangerous. (And yeah, the entrance is awesome. How amazing to see Tons of Funk vs. The Real Americans, thinkign back to a few years ago when everyone just walked to the ring.)
I kind of adore the irony of racist heels fighting against Los Matadores.... who were created because the bookers apparently think that Puerto Rico and Spain are the same thing.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,854
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 23, 2013 12:06:40 GMT -5
Jack Swagger once signed a (legit) autograph with "I love oven-baked sandwiches". So I cannot hate him. And yet he hasn't brought back the Swaggie? What the hell?
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,854
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 23, 2013 12:12:38 GMT -5
They're afraid to turn Zeb's racism up to eleven, because they really want to avoid another Rap Is Crap kind of situation, which does nothing but make their own fans look bad. They're afraid to make him a real Tea Partier, because being too complicatedly political is a bring-down (and, let's face it, Linda and Vince are probably scared to have him say things they actually agree with and get booed for it). So, it's the kind of fake-racism fans are completely enured to by this point. They're TV-racist. It's ESPECIALLY exciting to chant along with that, because you get the thrill of supporting guys you're not supposed to support, but you don't feel like you're hitching yourself to anything actually dangerous. (And yeah, the entrance is awesome. How amazing to see Tons of Funk vs. The Real Americans, thinkign back to a few years ago when everyone just walked to the ring.) I kind of adore the irony of racist heels fighting against Los Matadores.... who were created because the bookers apparently think that Puerto Rico and Spain are the same thing. See, there are some implications being made here that are way off base, though detail can't be gone into for obvious reasons. Suffice to say, Vince isn't going to intentionally make those same implications, because it would pretty much kill the house show business dead outside of NYC, New England, California, and Chicago.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 23, 2013 12:42:16 GMT -5
They're afraid to turn Zeb's racism up to eleven, because they really want to avoid another Rap Is Crap kind of situation, which does nothing but make their own fans look bad. They're afraid to make him a real Tea Partier, because being too complicatedly political is a bring-down (and, let's face it, Linda and Vince are probably scared to have him say things they actually agree with and get booed for it). So, it's the kind of fake-racism fans are completely enured to by this point. They're TV-racist. It's ESPECIALLY exciting to chant along with that, because you get the thrill of supporting guys you're not supposed to support, but you don't feel like you're hitching yourself to anything actually dangerous. (And yeah, the entrance is awesome. How amazing to see Tons of Funk vs. The Real Americans, thinkign back to a few years ago when everyone just walked to the ring.) I kind of adore the irony of racist heels fighting against Los Matadores.... who were created because the bookers apparently think that Puerto Rico and Spain are the same thing. See, there are some implications being made here that are way off base, though detail can't be gone into for obvious reasons. Suffice to say, Vince isn't going to intentionally make those same implications, because it would pretty much kill the house show business dead outside of NYC, New England, California, and Chicago. ...one wonders why you made a post just to say that you can't say anything. Of course, now I'm replying to that post and not saying much myself. This might be what aphasia feels like. Well, actually, you do hit on a good point: being "political" rather than political is just safer for business in general, and probably more fun for the audience. I'm... not sure any one tag team is going to kill the house show circuit dead no matter HOW they're presented, but the point stands: the chanting is just a by-product of the lack of real bite to what Zeb says.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Oct 23, 2013 13:12:00 GMT -5
most wrestling fans will be extremely patriotic/xenophobic (depending on how you look at it). Same difference.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Oct 23, 2013 13:37:27 GMT -5
I think they could get over as faces if they were given the USA Guy character that Bateman was working on. Plus they could enter to a modified version of Hogan's theme. "WE ARE THE REAL AMERICANSSSS"
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percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
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Post by percymania on Oct 23, 2013 18:02:12 GMT -5
I expect the Real Americans to be squashed by the returning Hulk Hogan and disbanded. That's how I'd book it anyway.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 23, 2013 23:16:28 GMT -5
Personally I think fans support the Real Americans because they are utterly hilarious. Swagger can be funny just by standing there with that blank-slate, nothing-behind-the-eyes look on his face. Cesaro gets support because some fans realise that he's the star on the team and is capable of putting on great matches if given the chance, and the insanity of having a Swiss guy on a team of uber-patriots is just too damn entertaining to not like. It's also impossible to not like Zeb because he's a throwback to the good old days of managers, who handled the mic work and made sure they got their guys over. When you add that to their cool logo, entrance theme and crowd-friendly catchphrase, it's no surprise people like them.
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Post by Digital Witness on Oct 23, 2013 23:44:29 GMT -5
Cesaro is definitely making the most of this gimmick and its given him some direction to go with. He's always had freaky strength along with extraordinary agility and technical skills, he just needed to channel his personality into something the fans can get into or become another Brad Armstrong. I think this Real Americans persona will eventually morph into something that will help Cesaro get to the top in singles.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Oct 24, 2013 0:09:26 GMT -5
I would be all for having Swagger and Cesaro go face, but all there's way too many face teams on the roster right now with the Usos, Rhodes, Prime Time Players, Tons of Funk, Los Matadores, etc.
I'm not even sure who you would turn in that list either.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 24, 2013 0:11:04 GMT -5
I would be all for having Swagger and Cesaro go face, but all there's way too many face teams on the roster right now with the Usos, Rhodes, Prime Time Players, Tons of Funk, Los Matadores, etc. I'm not even sure who you would turn in that list either. Prime Time Players? Have them join the Authority because HHH liked the publicity that Darren Young brought to the company and deems them "good for business". Tons of Funk could take Swagger and Cesaro's places as the monster heel team. Of course that creates the issue of what to do with the Funkadactyls. Naomi and Cameron could easily keep the same gimmick if you made them cheerleaders for someone else. Maybe put them in purple and put them with Ryder. Or put them with Alex Riley as a subtle nod to his former jock persona.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Oct 24, 2013 0:14:30 GMT -5
I would be all for having Swagger and Cesaro go face, but all there's way too many face teams on the roster right now with the Usos, Rhodes, Prime Time Players, Tons of Funk, Los Matadores, etc. I'm not even sure who you would turn in that list either. Prime Time Players? Have them join the Authority because HHH liked the publicity that Darren Young brought to the company and deems them "good for business". If the Prime Time Players hadn't just turned face a couple months ago, I would be more on board. That's actually a problem with at least one half of all the babyface teams save The Usos as well.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 6:23:15 GMT -5
They have got to be planning to turn Cessaro face at some point.
Surely they wouldn't have had him using the big swing if they wanted him to remain heel
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Oct 24, 2013 6:29:08 GMT -5
The don't tread on me flag doesn't help the heel cause, simply because its one of the coolest flags ever. Even for actually foreign people as myself. If that snake atually got recognisd over here, it would probably be for the Metallica album it was on.
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