Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,582
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Oct 25, 2013 12:46:41 GMT -5
They remade the Honeymooners and did a remake-ish version of Caddyshack (with a black cast)
They both sucked something fierce
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,553
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Post by 67 more on Oct 25, 2013 12:51:22 GMT -5
No problem with fictional characters as long as it's historically possible for people to be of that race in their location or if their race is the point. (eg If there were Chinese people in a story about medieval Britain it would be hard to stomach unless it's about life as a Chinaman in medieval Britain. One part I hate about the BBC show Merlin is that Guinevere is played by a Asian lady and there are black knights, it makes no sense.)
If the character actually existed, there's no excuse.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 25, 2013 12:52:19 GMT -5
Didn't Ultimate Nick Fury look like Samuel L Jackson first?
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Oct 25, 2013 13:08:03 GMT -5
also, if you ARE going to do it, it has to make sense and not be a callous marketing gimmick. for example, recently, what with Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury being the popular take on the character, Marvel decided its 616 Nick Fury had to look like that, too. the problem is, the very white "classic" Nick Fury's the one with all the stories. so they introduce his son, who happens to be 100% black in spite of having a white father, who has NONE of the backstory that gives Gen. Fury his credibility as a big mover/shaker in the Marvel U and just unceremoneously writes off the REAL Fury in favor of a new character with none of the backstory who just comes off as a pretender who has no business suddenly being treated like he's Nick Fury when everyone knows he isn't. wanting to make him look like Sam Jackson was fine, but the way they did it was totally wrong. it would've been less insulting to the audience' intelligence if there was like some sort of dimension/reality warp that made him look different or something, because then at least it'd still be the real Nick Fury. it's like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, but you just know 5 years down the line when they have another editorial change Baby Fury's going to be banished to comic limbo where he can hang with Teen Tony Stark and Ben Reilly with his very 90s Bleach-blonde hair. Psylocke is a British woman stuck in the body of an Asian woman. Has been for 2 decades. And no one bats an eyelash at this. They could've done something like that with Fury, easily.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 25, 2013 14:26:18 GMT -5
Didn't Ultimate Nick Fury look like Samuel L Jackson first? he did. and it was pretty cool. then Marvel decided, largely because of the Avengers franchise that he needed to be in 616 as well, so they came up with the most convoluted scenario possible to do it and it just came off as silly instead. it's kinda like when they decided Magneto couldn't be Xorn so they came up with an ultra-convoluted excuse for why he wasn't that just felt insulting. and Psylocke's about as asian-looking as Pocahontas was native-looking ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by Piccolo on Oct 25, 2013 15:39:33 GMT -5
I generally think it's fine to cast a POC actor in a role originated by a white actor, or a role that was originally Caucasian in the source material. I'm a little more eyebrow raise-y about Murder, She Wrote, simply because I think it would be way awesomer/progressive/empowering if OS originated her own character who became an icon. For whatever reason, it feels like she's getting a hand-me-down here, where it doesn't always feel that way to me.
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Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
Posts: 2,808
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Post by Sektor on Oct 25, 2013 15:50:33 GMT -5
I just want to say that I highly approved of Micheal Clarke Duncan being cast as Kingpin. Too bad the movie was shitty. The funniest thing about that is comic book fan's biggest problem with him wasn't that he was black, it was that he wasn't a really fat guy.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 25, 2013 16:54:17 GMT -5
I just want to say that I highly approved of Micheal Clarke Duncan being cast as Kingpin. Too bad the movie was shitty. The funniest thing about that is comic book fan's biggest problem with him wasn't that he was black, it was that he wasn't a really fat guy. Which is weird because Kingpin isn't fat... Kingpin just looks fat... but he's supposed to be all muscle.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 25, 2013 17:09:18 GMT -5
It's really not a big deal in my book: if a person performs a part well, then ethnicity/appearance becomes pretty immaterial, barring some exceptions where suspension-of-disbelief is shattered in some way (but I find those pretty rare).
It's possible to cast an ethnic minority actor in a role and have it feel like pandering, or a "hand-me-down" as mentioned above, but in and of itself there's really nothing wrong with it.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,461
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Post by FinalGwen on Oct 25, 2013 17:19:32 GMT -5
The thing about the "Why don't you just create a new character?" argument is that the current system doesn't want to take chances like that. DC are too paralysed by tradition to even bother making a film of Wonder Woman, one of their biggest franchises of all time. Marvel have confirmed that they feel a film with a female lead would be too niche, and they're making an Ant Man movie. ANT MAN. There's nothing more niche than Ant Man, come on.
So at the end of the day, do you really think they're going to make a film of "New-Hero-Who-Isn't-A-Straight-White-Male Man?" No. They're going to rely on the same old characters, again and again. The same happens in the comics world, too. You'll get a dozen new Batman titles before you get a single new character heading a title. So if you want a hero of a different colour, you pretty much have to rework an old favourite, be it a new character taking on the mantle like the Miles Morales Ultimate Spidey, or just an actor change like Perry White in Man Of Steel.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Oct 25, 2013 17:38:33 GMT -5
So at the end of the day, do you really think they're going to make a film of "New-Hero-Who-Isn't-A-Straight-White-Male Man?" No. They're going to rely on the same old characters, again and again. The same happens in the comics world, too. You'll get a dozen new Batman titles before you get a single new character heading a title. So if you want a hero of a different colour, you pretty much have to rework an old favourite, be it a new character taking on the mantle like the Miles Morales Ultimate Spidey, or just an actor change like Perry White in Man Of Steel. It's not even that part that's the issue, but also the fact that when it comes to minority characters, major studios JUST CAN'T WIN. If you make no minority characters whatsoever, then people complain it's Hide Your [blank]. If they try to make the character's minority status a focal point, then people accuse them of playing to stereotypes. If they DON'T play to stereotypes and try to make the character well-rounded characters, then people accuse the character of being not [minority] enough and just a straight white male in a different race's body.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 25, 2013 17:54:21 GMT -5
Given Wonder Woman's origins, I expect the woman cast as her to have a Mediterranean or Middle Eastern complexion. And be buff as hell. Somehow I doubt we get either if it even comes to pass.
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Oct 25, 2013 18:01:13 GMT -5
How about Jesse 'The Body' Ventura as Black Hammer and Willie Mays Hayes as White Lighting
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,461
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Post by FinalGwen on Oct 25, 2013 18:06:30 GMT -5
So at the end of the day, do you really think they're going to make a film of "New-Hero-Who-Isn't-A-Straight-White-Male Man?" No. They're going to rely on the same old characters, again and again. The same happens in the comics world, too. You'll get a dozen new Batman titles before you get a single new character heading a title. So if you want a hero of a different colour, you pretty much have to rework an old favourite, be it a new character taking on the mantle like the Miles Morales Ultimate Spidey, or just an actor change like Perry White in Man Of Steel. It's not even that part that's the issue, but also the fact that when it comes to minority characters, major studios JUST CAN'T WIN. If you make no minority characters whatsoever, then people complain it's Hide Your [blank]. If they try to make the character's minority status a focal point, then people accuse them of playing to stereotypes. If they DON'T play to stereotypes and try to make the character well-rounded characters, then people accuse the character of being not [minority] enough and just a straight white male in a different race's body. I dunno, I don't think it's that hard. The characters in Pacific Rim have been almost universally praised, and they had several more backgrounds and ethnicities than just about any mainstream movie that'll be released in the near future. And any complaints about Idris Elba as Heimdall, for example, certainly weren't coming from people in favour of more people of colour getting roles. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 18:18:38 GMT -5
A) It is often done to capture whatever demographic they're replacing the caucasian actor(s) with. Death At a Funeral being a good example. I mean Chris Rock crushed that one, but that whole film was clearly put together so black people would watch it. I'm stil shocked they didn't do a "mid-western white American" version.
B) Personally, I could care less about the race of a character - I'm more concerned about making sure they capture the essence of what made the character so appealing to me. I'm sure we could all think of plenty of examples where a caucasian actor replaced another caucasian actor for a role and it sucked. ("WHITE GUYS SHOULDN'T PLAY WHITE GUYS!")
To me its all performance-based. If a black/asian/latino actor can capture that quintessential trait that defines the character then I have no problem with it. Unless a character is only a product of their race (which would make them a pretty shoddy character) then any competent actor of any race should be able to take on the roll (historical restrictions aside).
It's....disheartening to think people can only (or predominantly) view the characters they love through the lens of race.
And, as always,
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,995
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Post by Legion on Oct 25, 2013 18:27:17 GMT -5
Race doesnt matter if the character is able to be the star. Unfortunately, when it coems to race swapping, the star is never the star.
Personally, I'm against it, just because it never works the other way round.
It's ok to make Jessica black in Murder she wrote, but make a white Jefferson's and watch the hate pile in.
Double standards will never get me on board
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Oct 25, 2013 18:35:08 GMT -5
I would totally buy Denzel Washington as Paul Kersey in a Death Wish remake
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,461
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Post by FinalGwen on Oct 25, 2013 18:37:25 GMT -5
Race doesnt matter if the character is able to be the star. Unfortunately, when it coems to race swapping, the star is never the star. Personally, I'm against it, just because it never works the other way round. It's ok to make Jessica black in Murder she wrote, but make a white Jefferson's and watch the hate pile in. Double standards will never get me on board timemachineyeah.tumblr.com/post/58648290519/this-is-a-jar-full-of-major-charactersAnother viewpoint on the 'double standard'.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 18:43:32 GMT -5
Race doesnt matter if the character is able to be the star. Unfortunately, when it coems to race swapping, the star is never the star. Personally, I'm against it, just because it never works the other way round. It's ok to make Jessica black in Murder she wrote, but make a white Jefferson's and watch the hate pile in. Double standards will never get me on board I never really watched that show, but isn't the "fish out of water" style family sit com pretty much done to death as it is for white characters already? Or do you mean - like, an EXACT remake of the show? Because that would be bad with any race. Especially since the socio-economic issues revolving around that show are difficult to replicate. It'd pretty much have to take place in an alternate reality or with some swaps made out for it to happen in a different country. Though at that point you'll lose the US audience probably.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,995
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Post by Legion on Oct 25, 2013 18:55:05 GMT -5
Race doesnt matter if the character is able to be the star. Unfortunately, when it coems to race swapping, the star is never the star. Personally, I'm against it, just because it never works the other way round. It's ok to make Jessica black in Murder she wrote, but make a white Jefferson's and watch the hate pile in. Double standards will never get me on board I never really watched that show, but isn't the "fish out of water" style family sit com pretty much done to death as it is for white characters already? Or do you mean - like, an EXACT remake of the show? Because that would be bad with any race. Especially since the socio-economic issues revolving around that show are difficult to replicate. It'd pretty much have to take place in an alternate reality or with some swaps made out for it to happen in a different country. Though at that point you'll lose the US audience probably. This is the point. If we are to suggest that it is ok to make a white character black, then we have to suggest it is ok to make a black character white. It doesnt matter if it works of what the issues are, the overarching point should be that white black characters should be just as ok as black white characters. It's both or neither, not pick and choose.
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