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Post by willywonka666 on Oct 25, 2013 9:17:44 GMT -5
This is undoubtedly a trend. Octavia Spencer will be in a Murder She Wrote remake. Annie is another character, along with some comic book characters, etc. but why is this? To try to do the exact opposite of what an audience expects? To get people talking? It seems like more of a bandwagon thing now than anything.
I don't like it, and I think Cracked pointed out that anyone that complains about a reboot of a character like this then that person has some kind of deeper issue. Well I don't. Maybe I'm narrow minded, but I think a character shouldn't really change. Not their appearance anyway, otherwise you're paying to rip off a character when you could make a movie about a black woman that solves crimes, in the case of Murder She Wrote.
Thoughts?
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 25, 2013 9:37:58 GMT -5
Clearly what the world needs is White Shaft.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,196
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Post by CMWaters on Oct 25, 2013 9:42:32 GMT -5
Clearly what the world needs is White Shaft. Played by Jason Statham.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Oct 25, 2013 9:49:00 GMT -5
Coming Summer 2015: Liam Hemsworth IS Blade the Vampire Hunter.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 25, 2013 9:57:51 GMT -5
there are certain characters that I really don't think should be changed, but for the most part I don't have an issue
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Oct 25, 2013 10:03:53 GMT -5
Ok, sometimes it doesn't work but sometimes it's better. Denzel Washington blew Frank Sinatra's version of Major Marco in the Manchurian Candidate away. Nick Fury in The Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men, led to major motion picture adaptation as an African American. Other times, it seems to be done just for the sake of doing it.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Oct 25, 2013 10:07:22 GMT -5
In a reboot I don't mind as the entire point is to start over, so sure the characters can change appearance, just like they can change attitude. If the whole canon is rewritten, then I feel the writers should be free to change the characters' looks and backstory however they please (in fact, I'd rather have them make drastic changes, otherwise... what's the point of even rebooting it?).
In an adaptation though, it's a bigger problem to me. I understand that the point is to adapt a work from one medium to another, so changes will have to be made, but you should still follow the canon of the original work and that includes its visual style and the character design. As such, I don't see how it would be racist to complain about an actor being cast as a character who is of a different ethnicity in the original material. Of course the most important aspect is the characterization, but if the characters don't even look accurate, I do believe it is a legitimate concerns for fans that the characterization probably won't be true to the original material either. And yes, there will be people who will be pissed purely out of racism, but labelling everyone who is displeased with such changes as a racist is basically Godwin's Law Lite.
Another problem I have with "race lifts" is best summed up in this quote, which amusingly comes from the comment section of the article willywonka666 mentioned:
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Oct 25, 2013 10:07:37 GMT -5
It's not a bad thing most of the time. Hell we wouldn't have modern day Nick Fury if not for being rebooted as black. Ironside and apparently this murder she wrote reboots problems weren't with changing the characters race. They are just stupid ideas in general. Though I will admit that the rumors a few years back that they wanted Beyonce to play Wonder Woman upset me to a ridiculous degree.
Catwoman Nick Fury Harvey Dent (Batman '89) Heimdall Kingpin Agent J (MIB) Dr Doolittle
Are just a few off of the top of my head that all worked out well at various times. Then there's I am Legend which I feel is a shitty and deeply insulting movie, but Will Smith as the main character that is originally white is not one of them.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 25, 2013 10:30:46 GMT -5
depends on what you're doing. if the character is supposed to look a certain way, you shouldn't give them a race lift, but if their appearance is immaterial it isn't a big deal. Keanu Reeves, for instance, was a white guy but he still was wrong for the part of John Constantine because he neither looked nor sounded anything like how he's supposed to.
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,431
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Post by agent817 on Oct 25, 2013 10:36:09 GMT -5
What about Laurence Fishburne as Perry White in "Man of Steel"?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 10:40:55 GMT -5
I think it's fine. People talk about "character integrity" and all that but a lot of times a character being white isn't integral to shit, to be honest. And nope, whitewashing a Black character isn't the same thing. In an adaptation though, it's a bigger problem to me. I understand that the point is to adapt a work from one medium to another, so changes will have to be made, but you should still follow the canon of the original work and that includes its visual style and the character design. As such, I don't see how it would be racist to complain about an actor being cast as a character who is of a different ethnicity in the original material. Of course the most important aspect is the characterization, but if the characters don't even look accurate, I do believe it is a legitimate concerns for fans that the characterization probably won't be true to the original material either. And yes, there will be people who will be pissed purely out of racism, but labelling everyone who is displeased with such changes as a racist is basically Godwin's Law Lite. I think it's good you mention adaptations here because it's like we've gotten to the point where if you adapt a character from a novel, unless there's a picture of the character staring you right in the face (even that isn't a guarantee), casting directors default to casting white people. You still have people reading the books assuming the character is white even if the descriptors fly in the face of it. I mean, really delusional shit. And the thing is, there's still a bigger issue wrapped up in all this. The casting of Rue in The Hunger Games was really just a small example and that was even after they found the lightest-skinned Black girl ever to play that part and even that doesn't match the description of Rue we got in the book. You had people literally complaining about the character being Black, like they were betrayed or something. Seriously, people talked about how they stopped feeling empathy for her once they saw her character was Black. You're past the point of people just deciding to read whatever they want vs. what's on the page. You're at the point where people not only have less empathy for certain characters, but feel cheated when they are "forced" to feel any for these characters and that's some scary shit. That could be the "deeper issue" the OP is referring to. Screw it. Why be either/or? I say we have both. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 25, 2013 10:41:15 GMT -5
What about Laurence Fishburne as Perry White in "Man of Steel"? I was more shocked by that Asian woman playing Jimmy Olson.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 25, 2013 11:12:25 GMT -5
I think it's good you mention adaptations here because it's like we've gotten to the point where if you adapt a character from a novel, unless there's a picture of the character staring you right in the face (even that isn't a guarantee), casting directors default to casting white people. You still have people reading the books assuming the character is white even if the descriptors fly in the face of it. I mean, really delusional shit. And the thing is, there's still a bigger issue wrapped up in all this. The casting of Rue in The Hunger Games was really just a small example and that was even after they found the lightest-skinned Black girl ever to play that part and even that doesn't match the description of Rue we got in the book. You had people literally complaining about the character being Black, like they were betrayed or something. Seriously, people talked about how they stopped feeling empathy for her once they saw her character was Black. That reminds me of something from the Harry Potter fandom. There was some minor Slytherin character in the fifth or sixth book that JK Rowling described as black. He had a few minor mentions here and there earlier but nothing major. A bunch of series fangirls were really upset by the fact that he was black and that it "ruined" their fanfic and the series for them. It was really dumb. With reboots, I don't really care what a person's race is for the character. It's essentially a new character anyway. If DC wants to completely blow up their universe (again for the 3rd time at least) and make Bruce Wayne black, go for it. Clearly what the world needs is White Shaft. Played by Jason Statham. We all know Michael Cera is destined to play Shaft.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 25, 2013 11:15:05 GMT -5
What about Laurence Fishburne as Perry White in "Man of Steel"? I was more shocked by that Asian woman playing Jimmy Olson. I wouldn't be surprised if we get the real Jimmy in the sequels. there wasn't really anything "Jimmy" about his supposed stand-in at all. I think when it comes to race-adapting characters, the big question is "will the general public accept it?". people were probably fine with Perry being a black man because he's a relatively minor character (and I thought Fishburne did a great job myself). on the other hand if say, Will Smith played Captain America (he was rumored to be interested in the part), there's nothing inherently wrong with that idea, but you know damn well it'd be laughed out of theaters and people wouldn't take the movie seriously. same thing with Fox apparently wanting to cast a black guy for Johnny Storm (not sure if they still intend to do that).
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Post by Red Impact on Oct 25, 2013 11:15:52 GMT -5
Maybe it doesn't count because he was a legacy character taking over for a white guy, but the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle was a great character.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 25, 2013 11:18:26 GMT -5
Maybe it doesn't count because he was a legacy character taking over for a white guy, but the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle was a great character. I'll be honest, at least in comics in this day and age, complaining about wanting more minority/LGBT heroes just comes off to me as silly because if you actually read comics you'd know that there are lots of them already. and often in prominent roles. I do agree that it'd be nice to see, say a Luke Cage movie or a Batwoman movie, but when it comes down to the source material, there's LOTS of great minority or LGBT heroes to choose from. anyone who says there isn't is just being willfully ignorant.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,329
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Post by Push R Truth on Oct 25, 2013 11:30:47 GMT -5
I just want to say that I highly approved of Micheal Clarke Duncan being cast as Kingpin.
Too bad the movie was shitty.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Oct 25, 2013 11:37:07 GMT -5
Clearly what the world needs is White Shaft. Kinda happened in a 2000 movie that wasn't just direct to video, but only at Hollywood video. www.imdb.com/title/tt0147486/?ref_=fn_al_tt_4I present Shafted, where a geeky white boy believes he is a blaxsplotation character. It is the dumbest, worst movie I have ever seen. It made my head hurt it was so bad. And this is no Hyperbole, when a lot of people say it is the worst movie they have seen, it is bull honkey, but this, so so bad. My friend who loves "Freddy Got Fingered" thought this was awful.
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Surfer Sandman
Bubba Ho-Tep
You had to be a big shot, didn't cha
Posts: 506
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Oct 25, 2013 12:28:12 GMT -5
I will pimp slap the next cat that suggests that Michael Cera play Shaft.
That part was meant for James Franco!
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 25, 2013 12:35:15 GMT -5
also, if you ARE going to do it, it has to make sense and not be a callous marketing gimmick.
for example, recently, what with Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury being the popular take on the character, Marvel decided its 616 Nick Fury had to look like that, too. the problem is, the very white "classic" Nick Fury's the one with all the stories. so they introduce his son, who happens to be 100% black in spite of having a white father, who has NONE of the backstory that gives Gen. Fury his credibility as a big mover/shaker in the Marvel U and just unceremoneously writes off the REAL Fury in favor of a new character with none of the backstory who just comes off as a pretender who has no business suddenly being treated like he's Nick Fury when everyone knows he isn't. wanting to make him look like Sam Jackson was fine, but the way they did it was totally wrong. it would've been less insulting to the audience' intelligence if there was like some sort of dimension/reality warp that made him look different or something, because then at least it'd still be the real Nick Fury. it's like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, but you just know 5 years down the line when they have another editorial change Baby Fury's going to be banished to comic limbo where he can hang with Teen Tony Stark and Ben Reilly with his very 90s Bleach-blonde hair.
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