Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905 
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Post by Lila on Oct 28, 2013 12:05:18 GMT -5
14 and 11 time champions, eh? All that means is that you lost it 14 and 11 times.
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Phosphor Glow
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Is a real girl!
Posts: 19,883
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Post by Phosphor Glow on Oct 28, 2013 12:08:04 GMT -5
It's just the WWEs way of manufacturing Cena's spot in the history books. This argument doesn't make sense to me. OF COURSE his place in the history books in manufactured. It's wrestling. Damn near EVERYTHING is manufactured. |
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 28, 2013 12:19:38 GMT -5
Hell, a lot Flair's reigns were extremely short. Eh, he only had one reign that was less than a day, which Cena and Orton also have. Cena also beats Flair on reigns under a month, but the thing that Flair has that Orton doesn't (Cena is debatable too) are significantly long title reigns. Flair could have won the belt 5 or 6 more times and held them for less than a day and his average reign length would still fall at well over 100 days. Orton's is at a measily 54 days. Cena is at 97, which is okay, but not too impressive. Ric Flair? An impressive 232 day average. |
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Post by Raskovnik on Oct 28, 2013 12:30:27 GMT -5
They both deserve it IMO, particularly Cena, who carried WWE on his back for years and is consistently entertaining. Orton deserves it for being one of the best IN-RING COMPETITORS that THIS BUSINESS has ever seen even if he's not one of my favorites.
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Post by KobashiChop on Oct 28, 2013 12:32:36 GMT -5
It's just the WWEs way of manufacturing Cena's spot in the history books. This argument doesn't make sense to me. OF COURSE his place in the history books in manufactured. It's wrestling. Damn near EVERYTHING is manufactured. That hadn't occurred to me. Still real damnit and all that... My point is they've just bolted on all these paper reigns to inflate the significance of the guys in the modern era. Its the same with all titles. How can any of the belts mean anything when there are so many former champions due to the hot potato reigns? Cena having more reigns than Dibiase, Piper, Perfect, Bret and Shawn all combined just seems daft. Hell, Del Rio has had how many reigns with a top tier belt now? And he has been on TV since 2010. |
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 28, 2013 12:35:20 GMT -5
This is also what happens when you have absolutely zero competition from any other organization. You have guys who hold their spots forever. If we didn't have WCW back in the 90's, I'd have to wonder how many title reigns Hogan would end up with?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 12:42:56 GMT -5
The number of World title reigns guys get in such short order these days is absurd. Edge had over 10 in the span of 4 years. Alberto Del Rio has 4. Daniel Bryan already has 3 and his 4th probably isn’t far away.
If anyone deserves the ridiculous amount of title reigns that they have it’s Cena though. He’s spent almost a decade as the face of the company and putting on great matches. And winning the title from Cena can be a career defining moment (Edge 06, RVD 06, Sheamus 09, Punk 11, Bryan 13). If he’s got another 2-3 years left in him as a full timer I can see him also eventually giving guys like Roman Reigns/Dean Ambrose/Antonio Cesaro moments like that too.
The belt needs Cena more than Cena needs the belt at this point. I think they put the World title on him just to finally breathe some life back into it.
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Savage Gambino
King Koopa
Villain Behavior
Posts: 12,395 
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Post by Savage Gambino on Oct 28, 2013 12:53:23 GMT -5
Thing is, half of Ric Flairs reigns were meaningless too. They would often hot shot the title, so they could have Flair win it back at a big PPV, or supercard. The whole idea that it's a travesty for someone like Cena to break the record is overplayed. Edge won his first World Championship in 2006, and was an 11-time World Champion by the time he retired in 2011. Hell, look at most of the Attitude Era reigns. Hotshotting, to quote Gil Scott-Heron, ain't no new thing. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 28, 2013 12:57:33 GMT -5
I don't count the WHC
So as far as I'm concerned Orton has won 8 and Cena 11
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 12:58:09 GMT -5
Hell, a lot Flair's reigns were extremely short. Eh, he only had one reign that was less than a day, which Cena and Orton also have. Cena also beats Flair on reigns under a month, but the thing that Flair has that Orton doesn't (Cena is debatable too) are significantly long title reigns. Flair could have won the belt 5 or 6 more times and held them for less than a day and his average reign length would still fall at well over 100 days. Orton's is at a measily 54 days. Cena is at 97, which is okay, but not too impressive. Ric Flair? An impressive 232 day average. Yeah but there is way more nationally weekly televised television coverage and PPV's now then back then. So it's easier to have a longer title reign when you have less appearances to make and make yourself seem less stale |
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,634
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Oct 28, 2013 13:05:53 GMT -5
Cena's the best wrestler of his generation by a considerable margin. It makes sense for him to have a lot of title reigns. If Hogan or Sammartino had been in this era they'd have had a comparable number of title reigns too. Hogan has 12 reigns as World Champion. 6 WWF/E 6 WCW |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 28, 2013 13:13:48 GMT -5
Orton has always been a company golden boy while it's a credit to Cena that he was able to work hard and earn a spot into the inner circle.
Actually i'd argue That Cena wouldn't have so many reigns to his credit if not for Orton and his various behavior issues. Orton was meant to be the golden boy for a while, whereas Cena was destined to be a midcard comedy jobber like an urban version of Heath Slater. If Orton wasn't getting high and shitting in bags, Vince would've gladly thrown Cena under the bus a long time ago
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Idiot
AC Slater
Posts: 132
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Post by Idiot on Oct 28, 2013 13:16:27 GMT -5
Cena's the best wrestler of his generation by a considerable margin. It makes sense for him to have a lot of title reigns. If Hogan or Sammartino had been in this era they'd have had a comparable number of title reigns too. Hogan has 12 reigns as World Champion. 6 WWF/E 6 WCW I'm only counting Hulkamania. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 28, 2013 13:18:40 GMT -5
14 and 11 time champions, eh? All that means is that you lost it 14 and 11 times. Technically it means you only lost it 13 and 10 times  |
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Post by Nickybojelais on Oct 28, 2013 13:38:26 GMT -5
Looking at modern day title reigns is kind of like passing records in the NFL these days. You just have to accept its a different era and therefore assess these modern figures accordingly.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 28, 2013 14:10:47 GMT -5
It's just the WWEs way of manufacturing Cena's spot in the history books. It's pro wrestling. Everything is manufactured. Championships used to be given/decided by monetary value of the performer; that being that wrestler who drew the gates, sold the tickets and moved numbers. Which fits Cena, but not Orton. Orton, while a great hand, has not once in his entire career been a draw on any level. In fact, there's more proof that he's detrimental on top. Yet, they keep treating him like he's number 2, because he gets arena pops. But that doesn't ever seem to translate to business with him. |
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Oct 28, 2013 14:21:31 GMT -5
It's pro wrestling. Everything is manufactured. Championships used to be given/decided by monetary value of the performer; that being that wrestler who drew the gates, sold the tickets and moved numbers. Which fits Cena, but not Orton. Orton, while a great hand, has not once in his entire career been a draw on any level. In fact, there's more proof that he's detrimental on top. Yet, they keep treating him like he's number 2, because he gets arena pops. But that doesn't ever seem to translate to business with him. I have been a little surprised by Randy Orton's recent big push. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he one mistake away from being future endeavored? In regards to Randy Orton's pops, he's always seemed similar to Hardcore Holly in my opinion. He gets huge pops because he's recognizable and talented--regardless of if he's even doing anything of note. At every WWE show I ever went to when Hardcore Holly was around, he'd always get the biggest pop of the night because he was the first instantly recognizable guy who game out and he was awesome. It's not the same thing with Orton, but it's similar. He'd get a big pop from the crowd no matter what he was doing. |
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Oct 28, 2013 14:56:20 GMT -5
Yeah but there is way more nationally weekly televised television coverage and PPV's now then back then. So it's easier to have a longer title reign when you have less appearances to make and make yourself seem less stale Well, with some people appearing only once a week, it shouldn't be an issue. If anything it again makes Flair's reigns that much more impressive since at least half of them came before weekly programming. Also, not saying that Cena or Orton wouldn't be, but Flair won his world titles every place he went. No matter the organization, he was "the man". I can't say the same for either Cena or Orton when they've been doing the same thing for the last 8 years straight. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:29:15 GMT -5
And yet, if you ask for memorable reigns, I can come up with...like, 3 between the two of them. That's two more than I can think of. |
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Oct 28, 2013 15:45:54 GMT -5
14 and 11 time champions, eh? All that means is that you lost it 14 and 11 times. Technically it means you only lost it 13 and 10 times Eventually then.  |
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