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Post by MichaelMartini on Nov 7, 2013 18:48:02 GMT -5
I don't mind the idea of picking a guy to be the next big star and booking/pushing him as such, what bothers me is when it doesn't work for month upon month and they just keep pushing him at the expense of others that are getting more over. I mean after a certain point, you've just got to say "well that didn't work." Blame the Rock. They push him as a huge f***ing deal right out the gate, fans loathe him and chant that they want him to die, he gets a new gimmick and keeps getting pushed, ends up one of the biggest stars in the history of the company. Not sure what you mean. Your example is more of WWE giving fans what they want. Rock didn't work at all as a vanilla babyface so they listened to the crowds and turned him heel, which worked right away. If WCW wasn't around, they would've kept pushing him as a face and it would've driven people away from the product.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Nov 7, 2013 18:53:10 GMT -5
Blame the Rock. They push him as a huge f***ing deal right out the gate, fans loathe him and chant that they want him to die, he gets a new gimmick and keeps getting pushed, ends up one of the biggest stars in the history of the company. Not sure what you mean. Your example is more of WWE giving fans what they want. Rock didn't work at all as a vanilla babyface so they listened to the crowds and turned him heel, which worked right away. If WCW wasn't around, they would've kept pushing him as a face and it would've driven people away from the product. WWF pegged young Dwayne Johnson/Rocky Maivia as a star before his debut, and pushed him as such straight out the gate. The fans initially rejected him, they tweaked the character, and he became a huge hit. What lesson do you think Vince and friends learned from that? "We know better than the fans what they really want." It's what gives us nonsense like Del Rio transitioning back and forth between face and heel while failing at both and still being one of the top-featured guys the entire time, because WWE's certain he's going to work as a huge star when they find the right niche for him, fan reactions be damned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2013 18:59:36 GMT -5
I don't mind the idea of picking a guy to be the next big star and booking/pushing him as such, what bothers me is when it doesn't work for month upon month and they just keep pushing him at the expense of others that are getting more over. I mean after a certain point, you've just got to say "well that didn't work." Blame the Rock. They push him as a huge f***ing deal right out the gate, fans loathe him and chant that they want him to die, he gets a new gimmick and keeps getting pushed, ends up one of the biggest stars in the history of the company. That's true but at least they changed his gimmick up while continuing to push him. I'm talking about the guys that they don't change and just push relentlessly regardless.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 7, 2013 19:03:46 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean. Your example is more of WWE giving fans what they want. Rock didn't work at all as a vanilla babyface so they listened to the crowds and turned him heel, which worked right away. If WCW wasn't around, they would've kept pushing him as a face and it would've driven people away from the product. WWF pegged young Dwayne Johnson/Rocky Maivia as a star before his debut, and pushed him as such straight out the gate. The fans initially rejected him, they tweaked the character, and he became a huge hit. What lesson do you think Vince and friends learned from that? "We know better than the fans what they really want." It's what gives us nonsense like Del Rio transitioning back and forth between face and heel while failing at both and still being one of the top-featured guys the entire time, because WWE's certain he's going to work as a huge star when they find the right niche for him, fan reactions be damned. Actually, according to the man himself, they were thinking of releasing him in the spring because he flopped so much. He did a clean job to Mankind and disappeared off TV. Him becoming The Rock was his way of trying to stand out and break out, much the same way Cena did (another guy WWE was about to let go).
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Post by MichaelMartini on Nov 7, 2013 19:09:25 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean. Your example is more of WWE giving fans what they want. Rock didn't work at all as a vanilla babyface so they listened to the crowds and turned him heel, which worked right away. If WCW wasn't around, they would've kept pushing him as a face and it would've driven people away from the product. WWF pegged young Dwayne Johnson/Rocky Maivia as a star before his debut, and pushed him as such straight out the gate. The fans initially rejected him, they tweaked the character, and he became a huge hit. What lesson do you think Vince and friends learned from that? "We know better than the fans what they really want." It's what gives us nonsense like Del Rio transitioning back and forth between face and heel while failing at both and still being one of the top-featured guys the entire time, because WWE's certain he's going to work as a huge star when they find the right niche for him, fan reactions be damned. But that's one instance where they were listening to the fans, they forced their hand with the heel turn and it worked out great for them since Rock became so huge. I still think it's a more a case of Vince ignoring that lesson and just doing what he wants because there's no competition.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Nov 7, 2013 19:17:03 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean. Your example is more of WWE giving fans what they want. Rock didn't work at all as a vanilla babyface so they listened to the crowds and turned him heel, which worked right away. If WCW wasn't around, they would've kept pushing him as a face and it would've driven people away from the product. WWF pegged young Dwayne Johnson/Rocky Maivia as a star before his debut, and pushed him as such straight out the gate. The fans initially rejected him, they tweaked the character, and he became a huge hit. What lesson do you think Vince and friends learned from that? "We know better than the fans what they really want." It's what gives us nonsense like Del Rio transitioning back and forth between face and heel while failing at both and still being one of the top-featured guys the entire time, because WWE's certain he's going to work as a huge star when they find the right niche for him, fan reactions be damned. To be fair they've also stopped "main event" pushes cold too. Remember when McIntyre and Swagger were supposed to be big main eventers? Then their runs sucked and they got sent down to the midcard.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 7, 2013 22:08:36 GMT -5
WWF pegged young Dwayne Johnson/Rocky Maivia as a star before his debut, and pushed him as such straight out the gate. The fans initially rejected him, they tweaked the character, and he became a huge hit. What lesson do you think Vince and friends learned from that? "We know better than the fans what they really want." It's what gives us nonsense like Del Rio transitioning back and forth between face and heel while failing at both and still being one of the top-featured guys the entire time, because WWE's certain he's going to work as a huge star when they find the right niche for him, fan reactions be damned. To be fair they've also stopped "main event" pushes cold too. Remember when McIntyre and Swagger were supposed to be big main eventers? Then their runs sucked and they got sent down to the midcard. Not sure Swagger is a good example for this. His push was so half-ass and seem obvious that the wwe gave him the briefcase at the last minute.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Nov 7, 2013 22:23:22 GMT -5
Wait, you mean to tell me that if you actually take the time out to work with a Diva in the ring, they get better?
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Post by turkeysandwich on Nov 7, 2013 22:34:53 GMT -5
Wait, you mean to tell me that if you actually take the time out to work with a Diva in the ring, they get better? I know some of the things people have said about how little they've trained the girls in the past its amazing that any of them can do anything in the ring. For example AJ said in an interview a while back that a few years ago she became the defacto trainer at FCW when she had only been there for about 4 or 5 months since there was no one else there at that time that would work with the divas. At least they seem to have their shit together when it comes to that department now.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 8, 2013 0:19:58 GMT -5
Wait, you mean to tell me that if you actually take the time out to work with a Diva in the ring, they get better? I know some of the things people have said about how little they've trained the girls in the past its amazing that any of them can do anything in the ring. For example AJ said in an interview a while back that a few years ago she became the defacto trainer at FCW when she had only been there for about 4 or 5 months since there was no one else there at that time that would work with the divas. At least they seem to have their shit together when it comes to that department now. The reason why most Divas matches seem or are shitty is because they never get the time to tell a story with the 2 minute limits they have on TV which is basically a couple of spots and a go-home finish; and the fact that they don't get to work 10 -15 minute matches on the road with a road mentor like most of the green male acts in the business for the last 50 years. That was how wrestlers learned. They worked the same dude (like say a Finlay or a Regal) night after night until they got their bearings. The Divas are not given that luxury. It's impossible to really improve or be great under those limitations.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Nov 8, 2013 11:50:54 GMT -5
He has a superman punch. Therefore - he is awesome. That superman punch won me over. I've been saying for years someone needed to use the Superman Punch, and Reigns is perfect for it. It can be his Sweet Chin Music, iconic, hittable on anyone and able to be hit "outta nowhere!" Anyway, I'm cool with him getting that role. He's pretty good in the ring, he's serviceable on the mic and he has most definitely got the look!
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