TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Nov 8, 2013 7:15:07 GMT -5
Cena already is a heel. Fans boo him, uses cornball lines he thinks are hilarious, massive jerk to his friends (Ryder) etc. I'm sorry, but I am sick and tired of this logic, and you always have people throwing it out in every thread along these lines under the pretense that it's really deep and interesting and complex in terms of his character when it really isn't. Until he is treated as firmly in the wrong in an angle and gets shafted for it, he's not a heel. He's an obnoxious person who gets away with it because he is the sole person the rules don't apply to. JBL is a heel commentator who thinks John Cena is totally a swell guy and one of the best ever. This is shared by the two other face commentators in the booth. That's not because he's a tweener or something - it's because you're not allowed to dislike John Cena. They borderline laugh-track said cornball lines, they specifically point out "divisive reactions" in the most positive light imaginable, and they usually try to fill in some kind of justification for the way people see him ("I bet those fans booing him couldn't lift as much as Cena! They're jealous of his success!" - King). He's not a heel. He's a black hole. He's a great performer doomed by stupid execution and stupid company protection. Did you stop reading at the part where I added "But seriously..."? |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 8, 2013 7:24:43 GMT -5
Given that Undertaker still shows up a couple times a year I think we're going to have Cena around for a lot longer.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 8, 2013 9:24:07 GMT -5
Honestly no.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Nov 8, 2013 10:08:43 GMT -5
Yes. At some point. Imagine if someone asked this about Hogan, you'd think they were nuts. I think WWE is trying to do a Hogan style turn, in that, let him run all of his steam as a face out, heel turn, he gets a little more mileage out of a heel run at the top of the card. I honestly don't know if Vince ever would have turned Hogan heel. In WCW, his first two years in the company was pretty awful, so it made sense for them to try to switch it up. Vince would have probably just kept it going until Hogan decided to just retire. |
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Post by Ape Boy on Nov 8, 2013 10:17:43 GMT -5
Cena will turn heel once Cena turning heel becomes what's best for business. It will happen eventually, I'm sure, but as long as he's making them a fortune as a face, and as long as he remains, by far, the best spokesman for WWE, it wont happen.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2013 13:51:38 GMT -5
Yes. At some point. Imagine if someone asked this about Hogan, you'd think they were nuts. I think WWE is trying to do a Hogan style turn, in that, let him run all of his steam as a face out, heel turn, he gets a little more mileage out of a heel run at the top of the card. I honestly don't know if Vince ever would have turned Hogan heel. In WCW, his first two years in the company was pretty awful, so it made sense for them to try to switch it up. Vince would have probably just kept it going until Hogan decided to just retire. They turned Austin when he was still a huge face attraction. Granted, he thinks it was a mistake to this day, but it's a precedent at least. |
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Post by gnr123 on Nov 9, 2013 1:54:43 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if Vince ever would have turned Hogan heel. In WCW, his first two years in the company was pretty awful, so it made sense for them to try to switch it up. Vince would have probably just kept it going until Hogan decided to just retire. They turned Austin when he was still a huge face attraction. Granted, he thinks it was a mistake to this day, but it's a precedent at least. It WAS a mistake, one of the biggest mistakes the WWE ever did. It was a swerve that had no business happening, and it bombed financially. It is why I don't see Cena ever turning heel, there's no reason to take that risk again. Would it be a welcomed change, yes. It would be interesting to see Cena play a heel. It is necessary, no, at least not now. And besides, just like saintpat poster earlier, he's a hero to a lot of children, both healthy and sick. He's basically the spokesman for Make A Wish now, and that's a very powerful organization who do a lot of good for the sick children who have only a few years to live and want to meet their hero. And a lot of them choose Cena because of his babyface character. There's no reason to change his character to a evil heel to sadden thousands of young children who look up to him as their Superman. Sure, he's playing a character, but the children don't know that. The stuff like "Rise About Hate," "Never Give Up," children follow those motto's, they believe it. In this age, in this generation, the children need a hero, someone to look up too. John Cena is that hero. |
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 9, 2013 2:01:17 GMT -5
They turned Austin when he was still a huge face attraction. Granted, he thinks it was a mistake to this day, but it's a precedent at least. It WAS a mistake, one of the biggest mistakes the WWE ever did. It was a swerve that had no business happening, and it bombed financially. It is why I don't see Cena ever turning heel, there's no reason to take that risk again. The difference is that Austin was at the height of his comeback, fresh again, and beloved. He was not in any way remotely stale or unpopular. They should only turn faces heel when they have nothing left to do as a face, or if no one wants to cheer them anymore (like Hogan in '96). |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 9, 2013 2:07:54 GMT -5
It WAS a mistake, one of the biggest mistakes the WWE ever did. It was a swerve that had no business happening, and it bombed financially. It is why I don't see Cena ever turning heel, there's no reason to take that risk again. The difference is that Austin was at the height of his comeback, fresh again, and beloved. He was not in any way remotely stale or unpopular. They should only turn faces heel when they have nothing left to do as a face, or if no one wants to cheer them anymore (like Hogan in '96). Austin wasn't unpopular, but he did run out of things to do as a face. He was already a three time WWF Champion and won the Rumble three times. The heel turn did refresh him creatively and gave him something to do other than flip the bird, random stunners and brewkakke-ing himself every week. But at the same time, I feel that Cena shouldn't turn heel. As I feel his issues have more to do with his dominance over the product than his character. If he keeps the same "stale" character in a lower spot on the card, like he is now, fans will warm up to him because he no longer has a stranglehold on the show and younger talents are getting the chance to be at the top. |
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Post by gnr123 on Nov 9, 2013 2:17:05 GMT -5
The difference is that Austin was at the height of his comeback, fresh again, and beloved. He was not in any way remotely stale or unpopular. They should only turn faces heel when they have nothing left to do as a face, or if no one wants to cheer them anymore (like Hogan in '96). Austin wasn't unpopular, but he did run out of things to do as a face. He was already a three time WWF Champion and won the Rumble three times. The heel turn did refresh him creatively and gave him something to do other than flip the bird, random stunners and brewkakke-ing himself every week. But at the same time, I feel that Cena shouldn't turn heel. As I feel his issues have more to do with his dominance over the product than his character. If he keeps the same "stale" character in a lower spot on the card, like he is now, fans will warm up to him because he no longer has a stranglehold on the show and younger talents are getting the chance to be at the top.I think your right. I think the smarks don't like him as much for his character, as it is for his booking. Which ideally shouldn't make a difference, ut they don't like it. That's where the whole "shoved down people's throats" mindset came from, his dominate booking on the shows. If he was to be lower on the card, and not be as dominant as he was years past, I think the smarks will generally begin to warm up to him. I think if he moves into a role similar to Shawn Michaels since his comeback (working with young stars but occasional main eventer) I think some of the smark hate may go down. |
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,401
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Nov 9, 2013 2:41:58 GMT -5
They turned Austin when he was still a huge face attraction. Granted, he thinks it was a mistake to this day, but it's a precedent at least. It WAS a mistake, one of the biggest mistakes the WWE ever did. It was a swerve that had no business happening, and it bombed financially. It is why I don't see Cena ever turning heel, there's no reason to take that risk again. Would it be a welcomed change, yes. It would be interesting to see Cena play a heel. It is necessary, no, at least not now. And besides, just like saintpat poster earlier, he's a hero to a lot of children, both healthy and sick. He's basically the spokesman for Make A Wish now, and that's a very powerful organization who do a lot of good for the sick children who have only a few years to live and want to meet their hero. And a lot of them choose Cena because of his babyface character. There's no reason to change his character to a evil heel to sadden thousands of young children who look up to him as their Superman. Sure, he's playing a character, but the children don't know that. The stuff like "Rise About Hate," "Never Give Up," children follow those motto's, they believe it. In this age, in this generation, the children need a hero, someone to look up too. John Cena is that hero. Hulk Hogan was a hero to a lot of children, both healthy and sick. He was basically the spokesman for Make a Wish, who wanted to meet their hero and lot of them choose Hogan because of the babyface character. Sure, Hogan played a character, but the children didn't know that. The stuff like "the 4 Demandments, the training, prayers, vitamins and believing in yourself" children followed those motto's, they believed them. The argument Cena should never ever turn heel because it'll make little Johnny Son-of-a-Bitch cry needs to go away. |
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744 
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Post by EyeofTyr on Nov 9, 2013 2:46:56 GMT -5
It WAS a mistake, one of the biggest mistakes the WWE ever did. It was a swerve that had no business happening, and it bombed financially. It is why I don't see Cena ever turning heel, there's no reason to take that risk again. Would it be a welcomed change, yes. It would be interesting to see Cena play a heel. It is necessary, no, at least not now. And besides, just like saintpat poster earlier, he's a hero to a lot of children, both healthy and sick. He's basically the spokesman for Make A Wish now, and that's a very powerful organization who do a lot of good for the sick children who have only a few years to live and want to meet their hero. And a lot of them choose Cena because of his babyface character. There's no reason to change his character to a evil heel to sadden thousands of young children who look up to him as their Superman. Sure, he's playing a character, but the children don't know that. The stuff like "Rise About Hate," "Never Give Up," children follow those motto's, they believe it. In this age, in this generation, the children need a hero, someone to look up too. John Cena is that hero. Hulk Hogan was a hero to a lot of children, both healthy and sick. He was basically the spokesman for Make a Wish, who wanted to meet their hero and lot of them choose Hogan because of the babyface character. Sure, Hogan played a character, but the children didn't know that. The stuff like "the 4 Demandments, the training, prayers, vitamins and believing in yourself" children followed those motto's, they believed them. The argument Cena should never ever turn heel because it'll make little Johnny Son-of-a-Bitch cry needs to go away. Especially seeing as, ideally, it would result in some new fresh face becoming that for them by beating up on that mean old John Cena that broke their tiny hearts. |
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 9, 2013 2:49:02 GMT -5
If WWE sees so much of an upside to keeping Cena face (the Make-A-Wish stuff, merch, etc.) there should be a concentrated effort to isolate all things that repulse the side that hates him, and remove those aspects from his character entirely. Thus far, there's been no effort made to remedy the glaring flaws in his character. That needs to change if we're stuck with his a "good guy".
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Nov 9, 2013 2:56:11 GMT -5
I think there's still a way to turn Cena heel without saddening Make-a-Wish kids, losing merch and etc. The obvious solution, as I have said before, is to have Kane use supernatural powers to brainwash Cena, with red contact lenses, fire and all that. Then the new face of the WWE would reassure a kid backstage that it wasn't Cena being evil, but rather that it was the evil inside of him controlling him. But not to worry, because he was going to find a way to bring Cena back!
Then, the new face and a team of 6 midcarders would go on a plot to find the 7 urns of evil that were being used to keep Cena evil. Each urn would be held by an evil, overpowered heel who would go down at a pay per view. There would be merchandise of those 7 urns, and Team Good Guys would break them one by one. Then finally, they would break the last one, turning Cena face again to face Kane and his horde of demons.
What I just mentioned would be horrible television and I still very much want to see it happening.
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Post by Banjo Is Broken on Nov 9, 2013 2:57:05 GMT -5
He already did turn heel...  See?  |
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,401
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Nov 9, 2013 2:58:16 GMT -5
Didn't Hogan keep doing Make a Wish stuff even after his turn, especially since his reignited his career?
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 9, 2013 3:10:14 GMT -5
The only reason I don't want a Cena heel turn or even a slight change in his character is because he's entertaining enough already as a big stupid shill-happy Marty Stu. Making more nuanced and believable would honestly spoil him for me at this point, so I say keep him a loveable goof. Stupidity and shallow characters are wrestling's essence anyway.
Everytime he comes out there, he looks like he's having the time of his life and it's infectious. Now if, say, he patterned his heel character in the same vein as E.G.O in TNA and acted like a cocky ham while he insulted the crowd, I'd be fine with that. But let's be honest: what are the chances of that happening? Sadly, there's a stronger chance the fun aspects of his character would be abandoned, and we'd either get a monsterous Terminator style Cena or an angst ridden Cena a la Crow Sting or Trucker AJ Styles.
Between those, I'll stick with the bad joke making face, given how most top heels in WWE nowadays tend to be the same one-note aggressive guy.
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