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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Nov 18, 2013 23:49:32 GMT -5
Remember how like for the last four years it's felt like all heels are kind of automatically on the same side and have the same set of traits: cowardly, sadistic, cheaters.
uhhh. Well...For the last couple of months, and in the last two episodes especially, that dynamic has been REALLY, REALLY changing.
Let's look at some of the heels right now:
3MB: Goofy, mean-spirited dumb-asses who are by no measure actually evil.
Brad Maddox: A pathetic weasel who is legitimately ambitious and trying to do the best he can at his job.
Randy Orton: A spoiled figurehead beneath which hides the same old dangerous, unpredictable psychopath; a villain marked by an entitled cowardice beneath which hides a wildly dangerous and effective animal.
Triple H and Stephanie: The same old narcissistic, egomaniacal, wildly insecure monsters they've always been.
The Wyatts: An unstable southern cult.
The SHIELD: Mercenaries out for their own, who are most recognizable for fealty for eachother, and clearly follow a code only they understand.
The Real Americans: Vindictive, xenophobic bullies.
AJ Lee: A bipolar manipulator with a serious rage problem.
Alberto Del Rio: More than ever recently Del Rio has actually sold me on being a smarmy, sadistic, completely heartless rat of a human being.
The fact that the show has let these characters actually have interactions that are true to their central motivations in the last month or so, both with face and other heels, is really, really, really awesome, and it's made me enjoy the show much more than I had been for a little bit. Case in point, I had some non-fan friends over last week to watch; the whole show they actually got into it, especially during the final segment, and came back for RAW is Country.
And now we're ordering Survivor Series at one of their houses.
I feel like wrestling CAN "be better than it is without alienating its core audience" (I'm quoting a friend now), and I really hope this continues.
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,623
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Post by Burst on Nov 18, 2013 23:50:56 GMT -5
I agree. Now they've just got to do a better job at defining the babyface characters and not completely ignoring everything that made a heel unique when turning them.
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 18, 2013 23:51:02 GMT -5
Well, nobody ever boos AJ and Steph is an atrociously awful character...but other than that, you're on point.
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Post by froggyfrog on Nov 19, 2013 0:09:38 GMT -5
i didnt watch raw this week. i blew it
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Post by JTG Fan on Nov 19, 2013 0:11:26 GMT -5
I thought RAW tonight did a good job with AJ. It kinda felt to me like a move out of an Attitude Era RAW to have Vickie face her even though they are both heels, and somehow AJ came out of the thing looking like a real star.
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Post by Lazy peon on Nov 19, 2013 0:11:39 GMT -5
You forgot Damien San... oh right.
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Post by Starshine on Nov 19, 2013 0:16:20 GMT -5
Are Triple H and Stephanie even meant to be heels right now? They act like typical too cool for school heels, but then also book all this crowd leasing stuff like Vickie and Maddox getting matches, but still have time to castrate the faces. But then they also undermine top heel and WWE Champion Randy Orton which makes things just confusing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 0:18:26 GMT -5
I love the Wyatts/Shield stuff. It's so combustible, and I want to see them fight, but at the same time them getting along well is interesting too. There's so many directions they can go with this.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 19, 2013 0:22:06 GMT -5
Are Triple H and Stephanie even meant to be heels right now? They act like typical too cool for school heels, but then also book all this crowd leasing stuff like Vickie and Maddox getting matches, but still have time to castrate the faces. But then they also undermine top heel and WWE Champion Randy Orton which makes things just confusing. I think the issues with Orton stem mainly from Orton's Viper/Apex Predator gimmick. It's hard to TRULY fit him into this angle and have him be completely behind HHH and Steph without a massive character overhaul. It seems like Vickie and Maddox are just goons. I wouldn't be surprised if they were eventually kicked out of the Authority, and Maddox continues on as a full time wrestler in the lower card with Vickie as his manager.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Nov 19, 2013 0:24:03 GMT -5
Are Triple H and Stephanie even meant to be heels right now? They act like typical too cool for school heels, but then also book all this crowd leasing stuff like Vickie and Maddox getting matches, but still have time to castrate the faces. But then they also undermine top heel and WWE Champion Randy Orton which makes things just confusing. I think the issues with Orton stem mainly from Orton's Viper/Apex Predator gimmick. It's hard to TRULY fit him into this angle and have him be completely behind HHH and Steph without a massive character overhaul. It seems like Vickie and Maddox are just goons. I wouldn't be surprised if they were eventually kicked out of the Authority, and Maddox continues on as a full time wrestler in the lower card with Vickie as his manager. I think tonight was writing Maddox out as GM so that Kane can take the spot.
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Phosphor Glow
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Is a real girl!
Posts: 19,883
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Post by Phosphor Glow on Nov 19, 2013 0:34:21 GMT -5
Are Triple H and Stephanie even meant to be heels right now? They act like typical too cool for school heels, but then also book all this crowd leasing stuff like Vickie and Maddox getting matches, but still have time to castrate the faces. But then they also undermine top heel and WWE Champion Randy Orton which makes things just confusing. I honestly think that makes sense and adds a level of depth to their characters. THEY don't see themselves as the badguys. They really think they are trying to do what's, well, best for business. And of course, part of that is pleasing the fans. They don't always do that, but part of the time, they do.
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Post by molson5 on Nov 19, 2013 0:44:06 GMT -5
The mere graphic for the 12-man tag main event on RAW made me appreciate what the OP is talking about here. It was not 12 generic pretty boys staring back at me. It was a great variety of looks and personalities, the way wrestling should be.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Nov 19, 2013 0:46:50 GMT -5
Omfg I COMPLETELY FORGOT NEW KANE.
Well, so did Raw, for the most part, so...
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Post by sportatorium on Nov 19, 2013 0:57:13 GMT -5
Don't know if he plays it up, or if it is the writing. Little stuff that Bray does like laughing hysterically when they are eye to eye with the Shield as if he likes the chaos more than anything is perfect for the character. Also being the one o break the solidarity between his guys & the Shield by tagging in Ambrose was consistent with being the closest thing they had to a team leader.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Nov 19, 2013 1:03:15 GMT -5
I do agree, they indeed have better characters now, but most of them don't have any depth beyond their surface appeal. Del Rio is never shown being a wealthy aristocrat, The Wyatts are just some weird dudes whose motives are always left unexplained, and Damien Sandow is now losing anything that makes him interesting. It's frustrating when they have the talent and now a bunch of varied characters, but due to their own ineptitude, they grow duller by the week. How hard is it to show Del Rio burning money in front of poor people? You want the guy to get over, that would do a shitload more than having him place Mexican flags in the corner of the ring while continuously calling people 'gringos' on commentary because you suck at improv.
I'd take the current colorful roster over most of the later 2000s, though. When Kennedy, face Batista, various forgettable dudes in black tights and Lashley were being pushed, I wanted to jump into a pool full of rusty Curtis Axels.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 1:05:14 GMT -5
I thought RAW tonight did a good job with AJ. It kinda felt to me like a move out of an Attitude Era RAW to have Vickie face her even though they are both heels, and somehow AJ came out of the thing looking like a real star. You're going to have to explain to me how AJ came out of that nonsense looking like a star. Seemed like same old goofy acting AJ to me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 1:17:44 GMT -5
They need to move Dolph Ziggler over to a Deadpool type character. Weird, cocky, hyper-violent, cartoon like bumps and breaking the third wall.
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Post by JTG Fan on Nov 19, 2013 1:22:30 GMT -5
I thought RAW tonight did a good job with AJ. It kinda felt to me like a move out of an Attitude Era RAW to have Vickie face her even though they are both heels, and somehow AJ came out of the thing looking like a real star. You're going to have to explain to me how AJ came out of that nonsense looking like a star. Seemed like same old goofy acting AJ to me. The booking of it made it seem like a big deal that she was facing Vickie, and the crowd responded that way too.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Nov 19, 2013 1:25:43 GMT -5
You're going to have to explain to me how AJ came out of that nonsense looking like a star. Seemed like same old goofy acting AJ to me. The booking of it made it seem like a big deal that she was facing Vickie, and the crowd responded that way too. I also thought the nice touch of her talking to Vickie after grabbing her by the hair while walking her back to the ring made her look like a star. No idea what she was saying but it was the kind of thing you don't really see with Divas usually.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 19, 2013 1:45:41 GMT -5
Are Triple H and Stephanie even meant to be heels right now? They act like typical too cool for school heels, but then also book all this crowd leasing stuff like Vickie and Maddox getting matches, but still have time to castrate the faces. But then they also undermine top heel and WWE Champion Randy Orton which makes things just confusing. Yes. They're power-mongers and soulless corporate elitists with no values. The other authority figures are basically self-serving, cowardly weasels that said power mongers don't respect and only use. To use any analogy, HHH & Stephanie are Scar in Lion King, and the others are the hyenas. They're there only to serve a purpose -- but are ultimately expendable in the rotten top-of-the-food-chain villain's eyes.
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