WWF Sex and Steroid Scandal

[The Blue Nova]

Do you think it was blown out of proportion due to bitter ex employees or what?

[Deleted]

I think a lot of it was genuine, but there was definitely an element of this to it:

(replacing Homer Simpson with Vince McMahon)

[Amazing Kitsune]

A lot of truth in it. Some fiction.

[jimmyjames]

When you have major scandals concerning a top entertainment/sports organization involving sex with underage boys and there biggest performer and one of the biggest pop culture figures of all time involved with steroids, it received the amount of notoriety it deserved. Steroids pop up in the public every couple of years, and the fact that Lyle Alzado was dying and later died of cancer that he said was caused by steroid use, really put that issue on the front page, focused a lot more attention on that situation than it normally would have received.

[Mozenrath]

I think that they wanted so badly to nail Vince with everything they could throw at him, and didn't managed to pin much of anything on him would imply that while the issue was, and is, a real one, his culpability in it was not really easy to pin down, and he probably did get some flack that should have more accurately been aimed at the industry as a whole.

It is like he said in an interview that got contentious, it is not his personal responsibility to keep every wrestler clean. They are adults, many of whom had very real drug problems brewing or already in motion by the time they came in. I don't think WWF was doing enough, but nowadays, they probably have easily the most regulation in wrestling. Some of it might appear suspect, but it's more than any other wrestling company appears to be doing, and has saved at least one life, (MVP), and their policies against drug use have been credited by at least one other wrestler, (Regal), with saving their life, by forcing them to get cleaner.

There needs to be more, but part of that is going to be getting better insurance, which is pretty difficult obviously for something like wrestling. Beyond that, there needs to be more to dissuade people from working hurt and making up the difference in pain pills, and other companies need to get their shit together on some of this, too.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Absolutely not. Given the amount of horrendous stuff that has gone on in wrestling that has never been fully investigated, there's no doubt in my mind there is a lot of truth to the various allegations made against the WWF. Lets be honest, the wrestling business is a close knit community, with a long history of promoters sweeping quite horrific stuff under the rug if there's money to be made, or if the guys involved are close to the right people, just look at Moolah, Jimmy Snuka and so on and so forth, so the investigations were facing an uphill battle to find credible witnesses who were willing to risk being blackballed and deleted from wrestling history so they used whoever they could find, unfortunately it led to them using unstable characters like Nailz who hurt their case.

People like to go blah blah, personal responsibility, blah, when it comes to what wrestlers put in their body, but let's face facts, Vince McMahon wanted a certain look from his guys, if you got chubby, you'd get punished, see Adrian Adonis, but he didn't want to give workers the amount of free time to achieve that look by natural means, or god forbid, take time off to deal with minor injuries and wear and tear, and still doesn't. He has repeatedly turned a blind eye to the use of illegal substances or shady doctors hanging around backstage until his guys get named in other investigations, or the fact people are dying young starts to cause a lot of bad PR, so yeah.

[HMARK Center]

I'd venture that the vast majority of the accusations had validity to them.

I'd also venture to say that the prosecutors went too far in an attempt to nail Vince on everything they could, thus costing themselves a conviction.

But I can't imagine Vince not being culpable of some major league criminality. He's a wrestling promoter: throughout history most of them have been scum, anyway.

[WWHHHD]

They didn't even come close to a conviction. They had nothing on the steroids and the sexual matters weren't against him directly, so the best they could do was take him on daytime tv to try to make him look like a monster. Which they failed at that.

[Boo!]

The case against McMahon was very weak. It seemed to be 'some of your guys take steroids so....you know?'

It didn't help that the prosecution's chief witness (Hogan) didn't help their case at all. If you think you've got a smoking-gun witness at least make sure you know what he was going to say.

[Sephiroth]

Bobby the Brain said it best: there undeniably are wrestlers on steroids and a few have even admitted it. But most of them are at least smart enough that they don't go shooting up backstage in full sight of everyone. Vince also undeniably knew full well that there were wrestlers on steroids and ignored it, knowing good and well that it was illegal. But he never forced any of them to take steroids and never sold any of them drugs himself. And as Bobby the Brain also pointed out, there is plenty of extreme, even perhaps deviant sexual behavior behind the scenes in wrestling, but none of the people who made the accusations were actually forced into any of it-they were willing participants who thought it would somehow help their careers and could just as easily have said no.
With all that said, there was an interesting article I read some years ago actually declared Linda, rather than Hogan, to be the biggest reason Vince did not get hit with any major charges. It mentioned that Linda was attending some sort of press event and casually overheard that Dr. George Zahorian was going to be prosecuted for illegal drug distribution to athletes. Zahorian happened to be the WWF's regular physician. Surprise, surprise-a few days later a large number of documents were shredded at Titan Sports headquarters, and the feds subsequently were unable to build an incriminating case against Vince.

[MolotovMocktail]

With the steroid scandal, Bret, Hogan and Piper, three guys who can barely agree on anything, and all who have had issues with Vince in the past, have all said that he was innocent, and at worst either deluded himself that his wrestlers were clean or didn't want to know for sure.

As far as the sex scandal, I know they got rid of Mel Philips pretty quick once the allegations surrounding him came up. I never heard Patterson was into young boys, and I don't know much about Terry Garvin to say one way or the other on him.

[Boo!]

I think the scandals were people trying to take advantage of the fact that the men in question were homosexual. Someone gay is no more likely to be a child abuser than someone straight other than in the mind of a homophobe and back then this probably was a prominent view.

For adult wrestlers who were told 'blow me and you'll headline with Hogan' - so what? Do it or don't, your call. How badly do you want the job?

[saintpat]

Had dinner tonight with a friend who is a former football player, not a prominent guy but on prominent teams. His career was cut short by injury and he ended up being a weight room coach for a time with the team (now he's a police officer).

PEDs came up -- his time was in the mid-2000s -- and he said there were guys on the team that he and everyone were sure were on steroids, but he never once saw a needle or anything handed out. Some guys did it on their own, he's sure, but not in a way where other people could have known it for sure.

I suspect, like the coaches, McMahon was pretty sure about a lot of guys but that's not the same as having direct knowledge or being culpable.

[Boo!]

I still today don't know why the onus is on WWE to test. Where's the outcry for EMI to drug-test artists it signs? Where's the drug testing at Paramount studios or at Wembley stadium before a concert.

Vince should just say "screw it, it's entertainment not a legit sport.", I'd be tempted.

[Todd Pettengill]

Nov 22, 2013 1:31:06 GMT -5 Boo! said:

Vince should just say "screw it, it's entertainment not a legit sport.", I'd be tempted.

Vince has.
Under oath even.
To try to get the WWF deregualted by Athletic Commissions.

[Boo!]

Nov 22, 2013 10:44:30 GMT -5 Todd Pettengill said:

Nov 22, 2013 1:31:06 GMT -5 Boo! said:

Vince should just say "screw it, it's entertainment not a legit sport.", I'd be tempted.

Vince has.
Under oath even.
To try to get the WWF deregualted by Athletic Commissions.

Yeah but I mean in this context.

WWE should be under no greater or lesser expectation to drug-test performers as any other entertainments company. I'm not saying drug testing is a negative, of course it isn't, but I think it does shine a light on the hypocrisy of the public. How many music stars have died through addition to drugs or substance abuse? How many stories have you heard about the chairman of EMI being under pressure to drug test?

I think the truth is wrestlers die young because a) the lifestyle and b) many if not most of them are poorly educated and some get too much money too soon. It's the same with people who gain any sort of fame by their 20s.

[Todd Pettengill]

Nov 22, 2013 10:55:29 GMT -5 Boo! said:

Nov 22, 2013 10:44:30 GMT -5 Todd Pettengill said:

Vince has.
Under oath even.
To try to get the WWF deregualted by Athletic Commissions.

Yeah but I mean in this context.

WWE should be under no greater or lesser expectation to drug-test performers as any other entertainments company. I'm not saying drug testing is a negative, of course it isn't, but I think it does shine a light on the hypocrisy of the public. How many music stars have died through addition to drugs or substance abuse? How many stories have you heard about the chairman of EMI being under pressure to drug test?

I think the truth is wrestlers die young because a) the lifestyle and b) many if not most of them are poorly educated and some get too much money too soon. It's the same with people who gain any sort of fame by their 20s.

Granted, McMahon admitted that wrestling wasn't real, in an attempt to avoid paying fees to the (New Jersey - I think - may be wrong on the State) Athletic Commission.
But, If he was deregulated by every athletic commission in the country, the high standards of drug testing may not exist.



However, I think we would still see a similar drug testing policy in place today because: Steroids have been a hot topic for a decade, the Benoit murders, & WWE is a publicly traded company.

[Boo!]

Never got the steroid thing in the Benoit murders. Wasn't all that because he had severe brain damage as opposed to using steroids? It seemed an odd thing to focus on. The guy had the brain of something like an 90 year old with alzhiemers and the reaction was 'out it was because he stuck a needle in his ass to make himself larger'

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Nov 22, 2013 1:31:06 GMT -5 Boo! said:

I still today don't know why the onus is on WWE to test. Where's the outcry for EMI to drug-test artists it signs? Where's the drug testing at Paramount studios or at Wembley stadium before a concert.

Vince should just say "screw it, it's entertainment not a legit sport.", I'd be tempted.

If a film studio want a guy to have a certain look for a film, they'll be given time before filming to exercise and achieve that look by natural means, while Vince just expects guys to look that way without giving them the time to achieve it through diet and exercise, as well as maintaining a culture where anyone who takes time off to deal with injuries runs the risk of finding that 'creative has nothing for them' when they return. The WWE makes more demands of it's 'independent contractors' than any film studio or record label, I mean they dictate what they wear when travelling for cripes sake, then they turn around and act shocked that guys are taking things in order not to lose their jobs... Yeah, I doubt many will shed a tear for the poor WWE, having to drugtest employees to make sure they're not taking chemicals that will damage their health over the long term.

If Vince puts his hands up and says flat out that it's acting, you'd see pretty much anyone who starts to get over joining the SAG or worse, getting decent agents and outside work, which they should be entitled to do as independent contractors... It would be a nightmare scenario for the WWE as they can't fire and replace everyone.

[Sephiroth]

Nov 22, 2013 11:14:52 GMT -5 Boo! said:

Never got the steroid thing in the Benoit murders. Wasn't all that because he had severe brain damage as opposed to using steroids? It seemed an odd thing to focus on. The guy had the brain of something like an 90 year old with alzhiemers and the reaction was 'out it was because he stuck a needle in his ass to make himself larger'

Steroids are known to cause mood alterations in long term users. But pop culture has developed an image of "round rage" as being like Bruce Banner turning into the Incredible Hulk and smashing everything in sight.