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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Nov 21, 2013 15:27:08 GMT -5
If, in their prime, all of these men were booked in clean-finish matches against each other in a King Of The Ring style tournament, who would logically win?
I think about this stuff a lot, because competitive aspect of wrestling and the shifting power dynamics is one of the things I kind of actually really like; that "anyone could possibly beat anyone" thing. Certain characters, however, are consistently booked to be the best.
Though I didn't watch any WCW, the answer to me is unquestionably Bill Goldberg. From what I can tell the man has something like one clean singles loss in a seven year career, during which he'd brutally dominate them and kick out of their finishers. What do you think?
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Rick Mad
Grimlock
Rick Mad Champion
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Post by Rick Mad on Nov 21, 2013 15:45:22 GMT -5
You're right, it pretty much has to be Goldberg.
Random thought, but if WWE would've kept Goldberg's streak going for a year then had him face Undertaker at Wrestlemania, that could've been pretty big.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Nov 21, 2013 15:52:41 GMT -5
Someone said The Rock and Triple H?
How do they justify this, both of those guys lost constantly?
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Bad Moon
Unicron
for reasons known only to the goblins that live in my brain
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Post by Bad Moon on Nov 21, 2013 16:31:34 GMT -5
Putting all those guys next to Goldberg is just ridiculous. It's like those Batman vs Superman arguments, everyone talks up the kryptonite ring and the bat-tank and the powered armor and the preptime factor, but we all know at the end of the day if shit ever really goes down, Mrs. Wayne's baby-boy is gonna get thrown into space.
The closest fight out of all of these would be Goldberg vs Undertaker, Paul Bearer in Goldberg's corner, in Hell in a Cell, at Wrestlemania.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Nov 21, 2013 16:33:48 GMT -5
But do we think Undertaker wins?
Is that an impossible scenario?
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Nov 21, 2013 16:43:10 GMT -5
Is that an impossible scenario? Nope, if the tournament happens at Wrestlemania. |
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Nov 21, 2013 16:45:29 GMT -5
No I mean, how does that match end?
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Nov 21, 2013 17:09:00 GMT -5
Well, you have nine guys on this list, assuming that from Brock Lesnar down constitutes the brackets (Lesnar/Cena, Austin/Rock, Hogan/Michaels, Goldberg/HHH, then the Undertaker). Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, Batista, Edge, and CM Punk really should be on this list in terms of their kayfabe credentials so that you have a 16-man tournament that comprises that last thirty years of WWE (the WWF). Unless you give Lesnar or the Undertaker a bye all the way to the finals.
My bracket of those 16 guys (generated by a random integer generator through 1-16 according to the chronological date when they won their first WWF/WWE/WHC championship [with Hogan as 1 and Punk as 16 before randomization]) ends up with these (not very novel) matches:
Angle/Lesnar
Hart/Rock
Austin/Punk
Goldberg/Orton
Hogan/Savage
Cena/Batista
Michaels/HHH
Undertaker/Edge
Of those, Brock Lesnar, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Goldberg, Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker go over.
From that bracket, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, and the Undertaker go over.
From that bracket, Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan go over.
And then Hulk Hogan wins.
EDIT: See, the Goldberg streak doesn't hold up for me because it counts guys like Jerry Flynn and Glacier. It's not like Goldberg was beating Hulk Hogan-level talent every night for a year and a half.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
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Post by TGM on Nov 21, 2013 17:14:10 GMT -5
I think Austin would probably win it. Once winning the title in 98, until his heel turn, I can't think of one moment he was made to look weak.
He would either always scrape through or if he lost, get his heat back via stunner revenge. Although I guess that goes against the theme of this thread now I think about it.
Probably Goldberg then, although he lost cleanly to Booker T once I think, which was a big deal because Booker was roughly only the third guy to pin him.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 21, 2013 17:18:10 GMT -5
In their prime? Hulk Hogan. He has the power of the prayers, the vitamins, and all the Hulkamaniacs. His back's against the wall, Brother. He'll win it out.
Goldberg had the raw talent, but not the record of success.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 21, 2013 17:44:32 GMT -5
EDIT: See, the Goldberg streak doesn't hold up for me because it counts guys like Jerry Flynn and Glacier. It's not like Goldberg was beating Hulk Hogan-level talent every night for a year and a half. No, but he did beat all of those guys too, and he only lost to people via shenanigans. Goldberg was unstoppable against EVERYONE. That's kinda the point. |
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Nov 21, 2013 17:53:45 GMT -5
The sight of Goldberg beating SCSA & Undertaker clean would be something thats for sure.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Nov 21, 2013 17:54:01 GMT -5
EDIT: See, the Goldberg streak doesn't hold up for me because it counts guys like Jerry Flynn and Glacier. It's not like Goldberg was beating Hulk Hogan-level talent every night for a year and a half. No, but he did beat all of those guys too, and he only lost to people via shenanigans. Goldberg was unstoppable against EVERYONE. That's kinda the point. But 80s red-and-yellow Hogan was also an unstoppable dude, jack, for a longer period of time... And yeah, the thread title says "of the last 20 years," but the OP says "in their prime." 80s Hogan is Hogan in his prime, which isn't to say that 90s Hogan, 1993-forward, was a slouch. But I think that if you put Da Man Goldberg (circa 1998) in the ring with the Immortal Hulk Hogan (circa 1987), Goldberg is still going to lose. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 21, 2013 17:57:20 GMT -5
You have a point, but if we're kayfabin' it, Hogan wasn't wrestling as often as Goldberg was, and Goldberg (kayfabe) beat 176 guys in a row.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Nov 21, 2013 18:07:25 GMT -5
As much as it pains me to say it, probably Goldberg due to the stipulation. He was like the Ultimate Warrior, he had to be booked so dominant since he wasn't very good on a technical level.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 21, 2013 18:08:24 GMT -5
Bret Hart not being on this list is criminal.
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,614
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Post by trollrogue on Nov 21, 2013 18:43:30 GMT -5
Well, you have nine guys on this list, assuming that from Brock Lesnar down constitutes the brackets (Lesnar/Cena, Austin/Rock, Hogan/Michaels, Goldberg/HHH, then the Undertaker). Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, Batista, Edge, and CM Punk really should be on this list in terms of their kayfabe credentials so that you have a 16-man tournament that comprises that last thirty years of WWE (the WWF). Unless you give Lesnar or the Undertaker a bye all the way to the finals. My bracket of those 16 guys (generated by a random integer generator through 1-16 according to the chronological date when they won their first WWF/WWE/WHC championship [with Hogan as 1 and Punk as 16 before randomization]) ends up with these (not very novel) matches: Angle/Lesnar Hart/Rock Austin/Punk Goldberg/Orton Hogan/Savage Cena/Batista Michaels/HHH Undertaker/Edge Of those, Brock Lesnar, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Goldberg, Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker go over. From that bracket, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, and the Undertaker go over. From that bracket, Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan go over. And then Hulk Hogan wins. EDIT: See, the Goldberg streak doesn't hold up for me because it counts guys like Jerry Flynn and Glacier. It's not like Goldberg was beating Hulk Hogan-level talent every night for a year and a half. ...you do realize that one of Goldberg's biggest/best matches was where he cleanly pinned Hulk Hogan, right? ...you do realize that one of Goldberg's most notorious 'defeats' (it wasn't a clean loss) was when Bret Hart had to cheat and use a metal plate to block Goldberg's spear, right? I don't know how you could ever put Hart/Hogan over Goldberg in kayfabe terms. They've already lost to Da Man. |
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 21, 2013 18:48:44 GMT -5
Well, you have nine guys on this list, assuming that from Brock Lesnar down constitutes the brackets (Lesnar/Cena, Austin/Rock, Hogan/Michaels, Goldberg/HHH, then the Undertaker). Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, Batista, Edge, and CM Punk really should be on this list in terms of their kayfabe credentials so that you have a 16-man tournament that comprises that last thirty years of WWE (the WWF). Unless you give Lesnar or the Undertaker a bye all the way to the finals. My bracket of those 16 guys (generated by a random integer generator through 1-16 according to the chronological date when they won their first WWF/WWE/WHC championship [with Hogan as 1 and Punk as 16 before randomization]) ends up with these (not very novel) matches: Angle/Lesnar Hart/Rock Austin/Punk Goldberg/Orton Hogan/Savage Cena/Batista Michaels/HHH Undertaker/Edge Of those, Brock Lesnar, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Goldberg, Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker go over. From that bracket, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, and the Undertaker go over. From that bracket, Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan go over. And then Hulk Hogan wins. EDIT: See, the Goldberg streak doesn't hold up for me because it counts guys like Jerry Flynn and Glacier. It's not like Goldberg was beating Hulk Hogan-level talent every night for a year and a half. ...you do realize that one of Goldberg's biggest/best matches was where he cleanly pinned Hulk Hogan, right? ...you do realize that one of Goldberg's most notorious 'defeats' (it wasn't a clean loss) was when Bret Hart had to cheat and use a metal plate to block Goldberg's spear, right? I don't know how you could ever put Hart/Hogan over Goldberg in kayfabe terms. They've already lost to Da Man. He beat heel Hogan, not early 90s face Hogan. Goldberg can defeat Hogan when the power of Hulkamania isn't a factor...but maybe not if it is. |
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Post by Old Jack Burton on Nov 21, 2013 18:54:15 GMT -5
It's not Bill Goldberg, that's for sure. The dude has nowhere near the heroism or drive common to most of the other contestants.
Such a fantasy tournament would be incredibly hyped, and each of these egos would have a story to tell over this event. Do you think Bill Goldberg's story is the last chapter? I don't think so.
To me, it's a toss-up between HBK, Undertaker, and The Rock. Remember, all three are "in their prime". Any of them have so much to win and lose. The rest can live without victory.
Hulk is excluded due to the 20 years rule.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Nov 21, 2013 19:04:20 GMT -5
I love that this thread has lead to the discussion of Hulkamania as a spiritual force.
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