MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 14,055
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Nov 22, 2013 0:19:28 GMT -5
It's ironic in some ways that the Bret Hart ratings system doesn't include 'charisma', which is kind of important and something he struggled with a lot. Maybe this is why, he never thought about it. That kind of falls under mic/promo skills.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 22, 2013 0:22:38 GMT -5
It's ironic in some ways that the Bret Hart ratings system doesn't include 'charisma', which is kind of important and something he struggled with a lot. Maybe this is why, he never thought about it. That kind of falls under mic/promo skills. Not really. Charisma is that ability to pop a crowd by looking at them. It's a presence. Talking is talking and a look is a look, they all contribute but charisma, although difficult to define, is definitely tangible. There's an 'it' that transcends what a guy's wearing or what he says.
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Post by tekkenguy on Nov 22, 2013 0:36:28 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan
Look: 25 Promo: 5 Workrate: 19
Total: YES!
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Post by Kayfabe FAN don't want none on Nov 22, 2013 0:39:16 GMT -5
Big E Look: 1 Promo: 1 Workratez: 1 Total: 3 Sycho Sid Look: 10 Promo: 10 Workratez: 2 Total: 22?!
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Post by onetruemisfit on Nov 22, 2013 0:43:01 GMT -5
Rob Van Dam
Look: 150 Promo: 120 Workrate: 150
Total: 420
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Post by dreamer75 on Nov 22, 2013 0:43:20 GMT -5
Hogan's workrate was far better than a 2. Bryan is a better promo then a 4. Macho Man is the only 30. That is all. I'd say Angle is a 30. What do we mean when we say "look?" Is it just the guy's size, or his overall presentation? Even Bret himself isn't clear on this. Jericho, HBK and Punk are easy 10's in the other categories, but if we're just going by muscle mass, they'd be 6-7 at best. Lesnar is a 10 in both look and ability, though I'd give his promo skills about an 8. . Personally Brock is about a three to four at best on the mic, there is a reason Paul Heyman does most of the talking
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 22, 2013 0:52:18 GMT -5
UFC Brock can cut a pretty good promo, though.
I totally think Bret underrated Hogan--and he's pretty/very positive about Hogan thus far in his book. I have a feeling that won't last.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Nov 22, 2013 0:54:47 GMT -5
Rey Mysterio:
Look: midget Promo: poco habla Workrate: spot monkey
Total: 619
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Post by BRAINFADE on Nov 22, 2013 1:07:03 GMT -5
It's ironic in some ways that the Bret Hart ratings system doesn't include 'charisma', which is kind of important and something he struggled with a lot. Maybe this is why, he never thought about it. Bret wasn't a very good promo guy, but I think it's unfair to say that he didn't have charisma. If anything, I think he was always criminally underrated in that department. Yes, he wasn't as big a draw as Hogan, but the he had absolutely no trouble connecting with the audience that was still there. Back on topic, I think that Undertaker would score very high marks. He has the most unique look in wrestling history, can cut a hell of a promo, and in his prime was an incredible worker for a guy his size.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 1:10:18 GMT -5
Big E Look: 1 Promo: 1 Workratez: 1 Total: 3 That ain't enough man! Look: 2 Promo: 2 Workrate: 1 There we go.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 1:22:46 GMT -5
That kind of falls under mic/promo skills. Not really. Charisma is that ability to pop a crowd by looking at them. It's a presence. Talking is talking and a look is a look, they all contribute but charisma, although difficult to define, is definitely tangible. There's an 'it' that transcends what a guy's wearing or what he says. And Bret was obviously good at that or he never would have got over. I don't know how you can claim Bret Hart had no charisma.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 22, 2013 1:27:40 GMT -5
Not really. Charisma is that ability to pop a crowd by looking at them. It's a presence. Talking is talking and a look is a look, they all contribute but charisma, although difficult to define, is definitely tangible. There's an 'it' that transcends what a guy's wearing or what he says. And Bret was obviously good at that or he never would have got over. I don't know how you can claim Bret Hart had no charisma. Well he obviously had some but it's all relative. He was no Ric Flair or Randy Savage.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 1:30:08 GMT -5
And Bret was obviously good at that or he never would have got over. I don't know how you can claim Bret Hart had no charisma. Well he obviously had some but it's all relative. He was no Ric Flair or Randy Savage. Depends how you look at it. Savage and Flair had tons of charisma, but also were great on the mic and could get over like that. Bret was never particularly good on the mic, so he must have had quite a lot of charisma to make up for it.
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Nov 22, 2013 1:30:30 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan Look: 10 Promo: 10 Workrate: 2 Total= 22
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 22, 2013 1:39:14 GMT -5
Well he obviously had some but it's all relative. He was no Ric Flair or Randy Savage. Depends how you look at it. Savage and Flair had tons of charisma, but also were great on the mic and could get over like that. Bret was never particularly good on the mic, so he must have had quite a lot of charisma to make up for it. I think maybe it's lack of crowd interaction. I don't think Bret is one of these performers who could feed off a crowd. It was as if the match would be identical if it took place in front of an empty arena as it was with 10,000 people watching. As a result what he did, to me, seemed less organic. Like he was just going through the motions, rehearsing the lines well-practised. I also think he was a very poor story teller in the ring too where as someone, like Savage for example, was excellent at it. When a guy who is supposedly such a great worker has his main events listened to in complete silence, I question it. If HBK was the senior in the WM12 match it would have been a lot better than it was which I believe Bret laid it out. And it was a stinker as far as the crowd was concerned.
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Post by britishbulldog on Nov 22, 2013 1:45:23 GMT -5
Depends how you look at it. Savage and Flair had tons of charisma, but also were great on the mic and could get over like that. Bret was never particularly good on the mic, so he must have had quite a lot of charisma to make up for it. I think maybe it's lack of crowd interaction. I don't think Bret is one of these performers who could feed off a crowd. It was as if the match would be identical if it took place in front of an empty arena as it was with 10,000 people watching. As a result what he did, to me, seemed less organic. Like he was just going through the motions, rehearsing the lines well-practised. I also think he was a very poor story teller in the ring too where as someone, like Savage for example, was excellent at it. When a guy who is supposedly such a great worker has his main events listened to in complete silence, I question it. If HBK was the senior in the WM12 match it would have been a lot better than it was which I believe Bret laid it out. And it was a stinker as far as the crowd was concerned. What about Bret makes you believe he was a bad story teller? I always found him to be one of the very very best at it. I'm not trying to start a fight I was just curious.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 22, 2013 1:57:14 GMT -5
I think maybe it's lack of crowd interaction. I don't think Bret is one of these performers who could feed off a crowd. It was as if the match would be identical if it took place in front of an empty arena as it was with 10,000 people watching. As a result what he did, to me, seemed less organic. Like he was just going through the motions, rehearsing the lines well-practised. I also think he was a very poor story teller in the ring too where as someone, like Savage for example, was excellent at it. When a guy who is supposedly such a great worker has his main events listened to in complete silence, I question it. If HBK was the senior in the WM12 match it would have been a lot better than it was which I believe Bret laid it out. And it was a stinker as far as the crowd was concerned. What about Bret makes you believe he was a bad story teller? I always found him to be one of the very very best at it. I'm not trying to start a fight I was just curious. It goes back to the crowd thing. I don't recall too many emotional rides during a Bret Hart match. Some performers have the ability to manipulate a crowd but with Bret I don't think I've seen many performers for whom the reactions of the live crowd are so utterly irrelevant. Watch a Bret Hart match with the sound mute and watch another with the sound up. I don't think you'd notice much difference or take anything more or less from one than the other.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Nov 22, 2013 2:21:30 GMT -5
CM Punk's workrate is a 9 and Hogan's is a 2?
No wonder people hate the IWC.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 22, 2013 2:32:37 GMT -5
CM Punk's workrate is a 9 and Hogan's is a 2? No wonder people hate the IWC. Hey, you can't blame the IWC on Hogan having a 2--that's on the Hitman.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 22, 2013 7:35:28 GMT -5
If you're giving Hogan a 2 for workrate you don't understand how wrestling works and/or haven't seen him wrestle in Japan.
edit: Just reread the OP, it's actually Bret Hart saying Hogan is a 2. That's f***ing ridiculous. So I'll rephrase - if you're AGREEING with that rating, then you don't understand how wrestling works or haven't seen his Japanese stuff.
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