ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Nov 22, 2013 7:45:44 GMT -5
I will be fair and honest
HHH Look 8 Promos 8 Workrate 9
Total: 25
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 10:48:48 GMT -5
Bret buried himself with this rating system.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Nov 22, 2013 10:57:04 GMT -5
I will be fair and honest HHH Look 8 Promos 8 Workrate 9 Total: 25 "Signed HHH Paul L Hunter Anon"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 11:00:43 GMT -5
I think just about the only thing everyone can agree on here is that, using this criteria, Randy Savage was a 30.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Nov 22, 2013 11:05:58 GMT -5
I don't get workrate. Why does workrate make you a better wrestler? Tons of guys had better workrate than Warrior back in the day but at his peak his popularity was second to none. So why would he be considered a 'lesser' superstar?
He'd be Promos: 7 Look: 10 Workrate: -4
So you end up with arguably the one of the top five biggest stars in the boom period of wrestling being ranked below some ham and egger whose never drew a dime in his life.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Nov 22, 2013 11:11:49 GMT -5
I think just about the only thing everyone can agree on here is that, using this criteria, Randy Savage was a 30. Yeah Savage would be the perfect 30. I guess Flair would be the next guy on the rung, but probably not a perfect 30. This rating system is lame anyway, or at least, very primitive.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 11:17:21 GMT -5
Rob Van Dam Look: 150 Promo: 120 Workrate: 150 Total: 420 No one gets higher marks than Rob...Van...Dam!
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Nov 22, 2013 11:20:28 GMT -5
Rob Van Dam Look: 150 Promo: 120 Workrate: 150 Total: 420 No one gets higher marks than Rob...Van...Dam! What you have done here, has been observed
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Nov 22, 2013 11:22:49 GMT -5
I will be fair and honest HHH Look 8 Promos 8 Workrate 9 Total: 25 "Signed HHH Paul L Hunter Anon" Nope. Just been watching him a long time. He is smooth, safe, has great psychology, cuts a great promo be it heel or face, has the body of an Adonis with rock star hair(attitude era), his face sells everything. In short he has the work rate, promo skill and certainly the look. He has IT. A lot of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 11:57:00 GMT -5
Yeah rating Hogan a 2 is pretty insulting, even for Bret who hates Hulk. I'd say Hogan, Rock, and Austin were all 30's, or damn close to it if you want to split hairs. Look, mic ability, charisma, and had the crowd in the palm of their hands every night.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Nov 22, 2013 12:04:39 GMT -5
I chalk a lot of Bret's continued hulk bashing on professional rivalry and equal parts jealously. Hart didn't draw half of what Hogan did. So he stands on his in ring work. I get that, he cares deeply about his craft. But Hogan can work just as many styles as hart and make them work in his match. He can brawl, he works power, he can do technical, hell I've seen Japanese tapes of him showing some catch in there.
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Post by BJ Sturgeon on Nov 22, 2013 14:07:48 GMT -5
Jake Roberts:
Look: 7 Promos: 10 Workrate: 5
"I got 22"
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Nov 22, 2013 15:03:57 GMT -5
I don't get workrate. Why does workrate make you a better wrestler? Tons of guys had better workrate than Warrior back in the day but at his peak his popularity was second to none. So why would he be considered a 'lesser' superstar? He'd be Promos: 7 Look: 10 Workrate: -4 So you end up with arguably the one of the top five biggest stars in the boom period of wrestling being ranked below some ham and egger whose never drew a dime in his life. And by the same token, the following things could be equally said: or: The point is that all three of them are important,and some mixture of each of them is necessary. Someone who's world class at one doesn't need the others to succeed, but if you have a good mix, it wil help.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Nov 22, 2013 15:30:49 GMT -5
Bret Hart: "I have my own theory on the three qualities it takes to be a great pro wrestler. The first one is look or physical presence. On a scale of one to ten, Hogan, being such an awesome specimen, might rate a ten, for example... The second quality is the ability to talk, to sell yourself; Hogan might score another easy ten ... The third is wrestling talent, the ability to work. Here it would be just the opposite: Hogan would rate the two. ... A score in the high twenties adds up to a great wrestler"
Hulk Hogan rating system: "The best wrestler is the one who makes the most money."
Hogan FTW
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 22, 2013 15:31:02 GMT -5
It's a screwed up scale anyway. Nobody can agree on what constitutes a good look, because some will tell you it's size and build while others will point to marketability or a coolness factor, and as far as workrate people can't decide if that means a wrestler's moveset or the excitement/energy they bring to their matches. The only solid stat is promo work, and even that's up in the air as even Rock has his detractors on the mic.
You just can't put solid numbers to pro wrestling. Even figure skating is understandably more concrete.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Nov 22, 2013 16:14:18 GMT -5
It's a screwed up scale anyway. Nobody can agree on what constitutes a good look, because some will tell you it's size and build while others will point to marketability or a coolness factor, and as far as workrate people can't decide if that means a wrestler's moveset or the excitement/energy they bring to their matches. The only solid stat is promo work, and even that's up in the air as even Rock has his detractors on the mic. You just can't put solid numbers to pro wrestling. Even figure skating is understandably more concrete. But that's the whole problem with all of entertainment- not just sports entertainment. Entertainment, at its core, is entirely subjective. What entertains one person won't entertain another- and even the best stat possible- as the Hogan claim- "whoever makes the most money is the best wrestler"- is subjective based on what the people in charge WANT to give the credit to. Witness, for example- the recent claims of "Daniel Bryan/CM Punk can't draw money"- the fact that in both cases, their storyline boiled down to the same core: -[ROH talent] gets World Title match with John Cena [someone we can all agree is a bonafide draw.] -Match gets the fans' imagination. ROH talent wins World Title. -Triple H is thrown into the storyline after it draws the fans' imagination. -Triple H vs. ROH Talent fails. -ROH Talent is shunted by the wayside (since, of course the fact that it didn't draw couldn't POSSIBLY be Triple H's fault. Triple H is a draw- just ask WWE.) If it's all subjective- any rating's just going to be your own choices anyway.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Nov 22, 2013 17:11:11 GMT -5
There is some unfair Bret Hart bashing in regards to his opinions of Hulk Hogan. You'll note that Hulk Hogan is given a higher rating under the Bret Hart system than Bret Hart is. And thus far, in his book, Bret Hart is praising Hogan quite a bit--even when they've had their differences. Granted I have a feeling this will change, since I have about 25% of the book to go. The only person he's seem to just criticize for no apparent justifiable reason is Ric Flair.
He pretty much says at one point that Ric Flair was not a good worker, but that nobody realizes it but him. I love the book and I have a ton of respect for Bret...but if you're the only person who notices something, then just maybe you're the one who's wrong.
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Post by machomuta on Nov 22, 2013 17:25:07 GMT -5
That kind of falls under mic/promo skills. Not really. Mic skills and charisma are not the same thing. Rey Mysterio and Jeff Hardy are two guys who are charismatic and have bad mic skills.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Nov 22, 2013 18:08:40 GMT -5
Hogan-
Look: 10 Promo: 10 Workrate: 7
27
Austin-
Look: 10 Promo: 10 Workrate: 9
29
Rock
Look: 10 Promo: 10 Workrate: 8
28
Cena
Look: 10 Promo: 8 Workrate: 8
26
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Nov 22, 2013 18:11:39 GMT -5
I would like to introduce the Del Rio Paradox: Look: debatable but it's at least a 7 Promo: I'll be generous and give him a 5(he's not terrible, he just doesn't really say anything interesting) Workrate: I'll give him a 9(he's quite good in ring) So this scores him at least 21 on the scale which is one off of Hogan and the same as 89 Bret apparently, and despite having a respectable score most arenas don't react to him. You say he's quite good in the ring, but give him 9 out of 10 for workrate? Surely quite good would be 6 or 7?
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