Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
Posts: 16,732
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Post by Rican on Nov 26, 2013 19:26:23 GMT -5
To each his own. I've really enjoyed him so far.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 19:41:48 GMT -5
You are trying waaaay too hard to paint WWE as racists. I could box every white wrestler on the roster into three categories as well. Yes, but would those three categories be associated with 'white' gimmicks/stereotypes/cliches? That's the point: white wrestlers very rarely have 'whiteness' as a part of their gimmick, unless it's something like the Wyatts (hillbilly characters), Heath Slater (redneck character) or Triple H (white collar management character). When has anyone ever commented upon CM Punk's whiteness as a part of his 'best in the world' gimmick, for example? To say 'yeah, but I can fit white wrestlers in those categories too!' misses the point. The point is that non-white wrestlers often (but not always) have their gimmicks dependent upon the colour of their skin. What's Yoshi Tatsu's gimmick other than "Japanese guy"? Is WWE *intentionally* racist? Sometimes, but not always. Does WWE often reinforce racial stereotypes of non-white characters? Yeah. Does WWE often reinforce racial stereotypes of explicitly 'white' characters? Yeah. Is it racist to point out racist gimmicks, intentional or otherwise? Are wrestlers always limited by these racist gimmicks? Depends on the booking. I think Yoshi Tatsu is talented, but he's never going to be booked above being 'the Japanese guy' of the roster. That's certainly not his fault. So you can't have a dancing black wrestler? Sounds like political correctness gone mad to me. It's not like the only dancers on the roster are black people or that all the black people are dancers. Brodus and Tensai are dancers for example. Not only that but most of the people you listed don't even fit those descriptions. Booker T, the PTP, Xavier Woods and R-Truth are not dancing characters. Booker T barely even does the spinarooni anymore, the PTP are cocky faces and the millions of dollars thing is more of a taunt. R-Truth is a rapper (in real life, so that's not racist) and Xavier Woods has danced once. To my knowledge his gimmick is not dancing. Not only that but most midcard faces will dance at some point. Santino is not a dancer, but he has danced on many occasions. Same with Khali. If you want to be technical, you don't see many black punk rockers. So Punk's gimmick could be seen as a stereotype if you want to stretch it. The problem isn't racism, it's being uncreative. You use Yoshi Tatsu as an example, what is Alex Riley's gimmick other than white meat babyface? What is Cody Rhodes' gimmick? Wade Barrett? They don't really have gimmicks. A lot of guys don't. That's one of WWE's biggest problems. It doesn't have anything to do with race, just laziness. And yes, WWE are guilty of stereotyping on occasion. So is society. They're hardly having Xavier Woods come to the ring with an afro pick, a watermelon and a basketball are they?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 19:57:05 GMT -5
He's doomed. Brought in with no hype and introduced to an audience who have no reason to care. And of course JBL's oh-so-helpful commentary won't help "What if he flops???" Piss off My thoughts exactly. He just kinda showed up with no purpose or anything other than being a buddy of Truth, who also had no real direction in last 12 months. Flat as it gets. And I'm a huge fan from watching him on NXT.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Nov 26, 2013 20:07:53 GMT -5
Yes, but would those three categories be associated with 'white' gimmicks/stereotypes/cliches? That's the point: white wrestlers very rarely have 'whiteness' as a part of their gimmick, unless it's something like the Wyatts (hillbilly characters), Heath Slater (redneck character) or Triple H (white collar management character). When has anyone ever commented upon CM Punk's whiteness as a part of his 'best in the world' gimmick, for example? To say 'yeah, but I can fit white wrestlers in those categories too!' misses the point. The point is that non-white wrestlers often (but not always) have their gimmicks dependent upon the colour of their skin. What's Yoshi Tatsu's gimmick other than "Japanese guy"? Is WWE *intentionally* racist? Sometimes, but not always. Does WWE often reinforce racial stereotypes of non-white characters? Yeah. Does WWE often reinforce racial stereotypes of explicitly 'white' characters? Yeah. Is it racist to point out racist gimmicks, intentional or otherwise? Are wrestlers always limited by these racist gimmicks? Depends on the booking. I think Yoshi Tatsu is talented, but he's never going to be booked above being 'the Japanese guy' of the roster. That's certainly not his fault. So you can't have a dancing black wrestler? Sounds like political correctness gone mad to me. It's not like the only dancers on the roster are black people or that all the black people are dancers. Brodus and Tensai are dancers for example. Not only that but most of the people you listed don't even fit those descriptions. Booker T, the PTP, Xavier Woods and R-Truth are not dancing characters. Booker T barely even does the spinarooni anymore, the PTP are cocky faces and the millions of dollars thing is more of a taunt. R-Truth is a rapper (in real life, so that's not racist) and Xavier Woods has danced once. To my knowledge his gimmick is not dancing. Not only that but most midcard faces will dance at some point. Santino is not a dancer, but he has danced on many occasions. Same with Khali. If you want to be technical, you don't see many black punk rockers. So Punk's gimmick could be seen as a stereotype if you want to stretch it. The problem isn't racism, it's being uncreative. You use Yoshi Tatsu as an example, what is Alex Riley's gimmick other than white meat babyface? What is Cody Rhodes' gimmick? Wade Barrett? They don't really have gimmicks. A lot of guys don't. That's one of WWE's biggest problems. It doesn't have anything to do with race, just laziness. And yes, WWE are guilty of stereotyping on occasion. So is society. They're hardly having Xavier Woods come to the ring with an afro pick, a watermelon and a basketball are they? There's a difference between "gimmick X who dances" versus "dancing gimmick who X's." Santino is the former. From week two, it seems that Woods is the latter. Can there be black wrestlers who happen to dance? Of course. But WWE presents it the other way around: black dancers who happen to wrestle. As as a form of media and entertainment, this is really problematic. In one sense, having visibility period is better than no representation. And in the sense you suggest, being a dancing black wrestler seems better than being a wrestler who reinforces the ugliness of racial stereotypes of black people in America. But is a dancing black wrestler itself a positive representation, one that doesn't reinforce or draw upon stereotypes or cliches? You say 'yes', I say 'well, let's pull on this thread some more'. Even then, the Rock's heel promo when he joined the Nation said it the best: it's not about the colour of his skin, it's about respect. And in a world where people still aren't respected simply because of the colour of their skin, there will still be the need to point out when something is f***ed up, when something isn't as open, equal, tolerant, and accepting of people and identities (like WWE) as it could (and, more or less, should) be.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 20:33:18 GMT -5
I just don't like his finisher. Takes forever to setup and looks awkward and a weak clothesline with barely any momentum due to the handspring.
I guess heel schitzo crackhead R Truth doesn't fit in those three categories. Then again he had a pretty original gimmick. Does King Booker count in those three categories?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 20:36:07 GMT -5
So you can't have a dancing black wrestler? Sounds like political correctness gone mad to me. It's not like the only dancers on the roster are black people or that all the black people are dancers. Brodus and Tensai are dancers for example. Not only that but most of the people you listed don't even fit those descriptions. Booker T, the PTP, Xavier Woods and R-Truth are not dancing characters. Booker T barely even does the spinarooni anymore, the PTP are cocky faces and the millions of dollars thing is more of a taunt. R-Truth is a rapper (in real life, so that's not racist) and Xavier Woods has danced once. To my knowledge his gimmick is not dancing. Not only that but most midcard faces will dance at some point. Santino is not a dancer, but he has danced on many occasions. Same with Khali. If you want to be technical, you don't see many black punk rockers. So Punk's gimmick could be seen as a stereotype if you want to stretch it. The problem isn't racism, it's being uncreative. You use Yoshi Tatsu as an example, what is Alex Riley's gimmick other than white meat babyface? What is Cody Rhodes' gimmick? Wade Barrett? They don't really have gimmicks. A lot of guys don't. That's one of WWE's biggest problems. It doesn't have anything to do with race, just laziness. And yes, WWE are guilty of stereotyping on occasion. So is society. They're hardly having Xavier Woods come to the ring with an afro pick, a watermelon and a basketball are they? There's a difference between "gimmick X who dances" versus "dancing gimmick who X's." Santino is the former. From week two, it seems that Woods is the latter. Can there be black wrestlers who happen to dance? Of course. But WWE presents it the other way around: black dancers who happen to wrestle. As as a form of media and entertainment, this is really problematic. In one sense, having visibility period is better than no representation. And in the sense you suggest, being a dancing black wrestler seems better than being a wrestler who reinforces the ugliness of racial stereotypes of black people in America. But is a dancing black wrestler itself a positive representation, one that doesn't reinforce or draw upon stereotypes or cliches? You say 'yes', I say 'well, let's pull on this thread some more'. Even then, the Rock's heel promo when he joined the Nation said it the best: it's not about the colour of his skin, it's about respect. And in a world where people still aren't respected simply because of the colour of their skin, there will still be the need to point out when something is f***ed up, when something isn't as open, equal, tolerant, and accepting of people and identities (like WWE) as it could (and, more or less, should) be. That's where we agree to disagree. The only dancers on the roster are Tons of Funk, Cameron and Naomi. Two black people, two white people.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 20:36:35 GMT -5
You guys are way way way off base here to be honest.
Fandango has a dancing gimmick.
Xavier Woods has a 90s nostalgia gimmick.
If you want to pretend that's not the case to erroneously support a poor argument, feel free. Though Xavier Woods does dance, that has nothing to do with his gimmick. He could drop it tomorrow and not miss a beat.
Dancing is fun. It gets the crowd excited (for whatever reason) and, let's be real here, black guys are better dancers on average. So yeah, odds are a black wrestler is going to try and use it as a way to get over. But to pigeon hole Woods as a "DANCING BLACK GUY" gimmick is just dead wrong.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Nov 26, 2013 20:44:30 GMT -5
Goddamn, I haven't watched the show for about three weeks, but really? Does he come to the ring in a fedora?
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Nov 26, 2013 20:50:42 GMT -5
Goddamn, I haven't watched the show for about three weeks, but really? Does he come to the ring in a fedora? Everyone else is in crystal clear HD and all Xavier's matches are broadcast in VHS quality.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 20:54:31 GMT -5
Goddamn, I haven't watched the show for about three weeks, but really? Does he come to the ring in a fedora? Everyone else is in crystal clear HD and all Xavier's matches are broadcast in VHS quality. 4:3 picture aspect with black bars on sides. When he hits a finisher the tape skips so you can't tell if it connected or not.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Nov 26, 2013 20:59:48 GMT -5
If his gimmick really is a 90s nostalgia thing then maybe he does actually suck balls at present but in 15 years time you wont be able to move without somebody boring you about how he was awesome
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Jessica Cadavre
Trap-Jaw
I like to dissect girls. Did you know I'm utterly insane?
Posts: 427
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Post by Jessica Cadavre on Nov 26, 2013 21:03:40 GMT -5
The Nation of Domination gets reformed and attacks Bryan, Orton, the Bellas, Triple H and the McMahons for being emblematic of WASP privilege. Bellas are Italian/Mexican
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Post by 2 Cold Scorkum on Nov 26, 2013 21:06:34 GMT -5
if it was a true 90's nostalgia gimmick, all his promos would just be him showing the crowd buzzfeed articles on his ipad
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 21:16:24 GMT -5
The Nation of Domination gets reformed and attacks Bryan, Orton, the Bellas, Triple H and the McMahons for being emblematic of WASP privilege. Bellas are Italian/Mexican Mexican's not a race, just an ethnicity. Italians and Spanish Mexicans are often physically as white as any other Europeans are. Not to mention they'd still fit in since they date white guys, and are rich. Racially there's a big difference between "Bellas"-Mexican and "Super Crazy" "Rey Mysterio" or "Melina"-Mexican. Candice was half Panamanian or something but I wouldn't have known it if it wasn't mentioned on the internets. Because either way, she was white as any non-albino or non-ginger working for them at the time she was around.
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Post by SeVeN: #TheBadGuy. on Nov 26, 2013 21:21:25 GMT -5
WHOS XAVIER WOODS?!!?
Really though I kinda like him. The funkadactyls and Brodus' theme actually fit him. I'll give him a liitle more time before I full on judge him.
The mustache and Fro are Golden though especially with the flying Fro juice.
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Jessica Cadavre
Trap-Jaw
I like to dissect girls. Did you know I'm utterly insane?
Posts: 427
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Post by Jessica Cadavre on Nov 26, 2013 21:22:01 GMT -5
Bellas are Italian/Mexican Mexican's not a race, just an ethnicity. Italians and Spanish Mexicans are often physically as white as any other Europeans are. Not to mention they'd still fit in since they date white guys, and are rich. Racially there's a big difference between "Bellas"-Mexican and "Super Crazy" "Rey Mysterio" or "Melina"-Mexican. Candice was half Panamanian or something but I wouldn't have known it if it wasn't mentioned on the internets. Because either way, she was white as any non-albino or non-ginger working for them at the time she was around. The Anglo-Saxon part of WASP I get what you are saying though. I'm just messing with you.
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Post by SenorCrest on Nov 26, 2013 23:53:09 GMT -5
Hmm, I'm shocked no one mentioned the Mexicools with their lawnmowers.
Either way,
I am 'eh' on this Woods guy only because he does funny faces and stuff. I remember Slater would do that shitty head shake and stick his tongue out and they would say how charismatic he was. I want to see more of him
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Essential1
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 6,080
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Post by Essential1 on Nov 27, 2013 0:55:45 GMT -5
Well he seems annoying to me so far. They keep banging on his PhD and about him becoming a doctor while he's doing this stupid over excited dancing like and acting like he's been on the main roster for years.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Nov 27, 2013 1:08:10 GMT -5
Black stereotype, no black stereotype. Either way, he's still annoying.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,421
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Post by Abdullah on Nov 27, 2013 4:31:25 GMT -5
They do bring up his education. I think that's something that they'll build on later on.
Black or not, if he's to move up the card, he'll shed the silliness. But then again, a young black guy hasn't really moved up since Kofi. Briefly.
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