Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 21:35:24 GMT -5
Is their gimmick that they only wrestle 3MB? because if so, that shit was doomed from jump street.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,884
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Nov 27, 2013 1:51:13 GMT -5
JBL helped kill it for me with his constant bellowing of "ole ole ole." Made me hate them as soon as they debuted. Maybe that was his master plan.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,421
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Post by Abdullah on Nov 27, 2013 3:21:51 GMT -5
Primco never seem to fully embrace the gimmick like Johnny Curtis did. The WWE can give gimmicks but it's up to the talent to make it their own and commit to it fully. If the internet had been prominent in the golden age of cartoony gimmicks, I wonder if we'd have seen posts along these lines. "The Red Rooster could have worked, Terry Taylor just wasn't enough of a cock." I'm more of the opinion that Los Matadores are doomed to fail not from lack of commitment to the gimmick, but because the whole thing is just plain stupid rather than stupidly fun. Here's the thing that people seem to woefully miss when making the comparison to Fandango: a creepy evolved Johnny Curtis is infinitely more relatable in 2013 than bullfighters wearing crappy masks. I'm not sure what Primo or Epico could have done differently, in the context of wrestling 3MB eight times out of ten, that would have helped. I don't think anyone knows either at this point. It's just something that gets said. Don't get me wrong, Los Matadores suck even as a comedy act but I'd say that was more booking's failure.
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skulldouggory
Unicron
Needs More Shirtless Barry Windham
Posts: 2,535
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Post by skulldouggory on Nov 27, 2013 3:25:30 GMT -5
It did work IMO, and it's been pretty good. A funny lower midcard face tag team to break up the tension. Not every guy on the roster needs to headline Wrestlemania one day.
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Post by bearned on Nov 27, 2013 4:34:28 GMT -5
It'll surely be worth it for the time some heel just beats the crap out of the midget bull. I want Cesaro to uppercut him into oblivion.
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Boshek
Mephisto
I miss the WWF at Scranton CYC
Posts: 742
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Post by Boshek on Nov 27, 2013 6:55:40 GMT -5
They would of worked better if:
1. No forced olé chants. 2. More serious, traditional music. 3. The bull was a large man like Minotaur. 4. No pink attire. 5. One show appearance each week.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Nov 27, 2013 6:59:21 GMT -5
why does anyone cheer anyone at a Chikara show then? Because their entire product is of that same fun, absurd theme? It's not interspersed with serious angles, revenge and blood feuds that make things like that stand out as hokey and contrived? I think its ridiculous to have say a concussion angle or gang attack, wherein the announcers are acting all somber, then a few seconds later, a midget is running around goring people in the ass with foam horns and the same commentators are fake laughing and making bull jokes. It destroys the suspension of disbelief in the former. Its timing is absurd. Watch the news. Watch an anchor go from serious for some political news to a feel good cool down story.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Nov 27, 2013 7:00:47 GMT -5
If the internet had been prominent in the golden age of cartoony gimmicks, I wonder if we'd have seen posts along these lines. "The Red Rooster could have worked, Terry Taylor just wasn't enough of a cock." I'm more of the opinion that Los Matadores are doomed to fail not from lack of commitment to the gimmick, but because the whole thing is just plain stupid rather than stupidly fun. Here's the thing that people seem to woefully miss when making the comparison to Fandango: a creepy evolved Johnny Curtis is infinitely more relatable in 2013 than bullfighters wearing crappy masks. I'm not sure what Primo or Epico could have done differently, in the context of wrestling 3MB eight times out of ten, that would have helped. I don't think anyone knows either at this point. It's just something that gets said. Don't get me wrong, Los Matadores suck even as a comedy act but I'd say that was more booking's failure. no one has any reason to be "relating" to either Fandango OR Los Matadores
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 27, 2013 7:12:30 GMT -5
Because their entire product is of that same fun, absurd theme? It's not interspersed with serious angles, revenge and blood feuds that make things like that stand out as hokey and contrived? I think its ridiculous to have say a concussion angle or gang attack, wherein the announcers are acting all somber, then a few seconds later, a midget is running around goring people in the ass with foam horns and the same commentators are fake laughing and making bull jokes. It destroys the suspension of disbelief in the former. Its timing is absurd. Watch the news. Watch an anchor go from serious for some political news to a feel good cool down story. This is entertainment. If I'm watching a show where someone is critically injured or some other tragedy, I'd think if they went into a three stooges comedy routine in the next scene that it would be beyond belief stupid. It would disconnect (a normal) person from the emotional gravity of the tragic scene -- especially if that was the main arc of said show/movie.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,421
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Post by Abdullah on Nov 27, 2013 8:22:01 GMT -5
Here's the thing that people seem to woefully miss when making the comparison to Fandango: a creepy evolved Johnny Curtis is infinitely more relatable in 2013 than bullfighters wearing crappy masks. I'm not sure what Primo or Epico could have done differently, in the context of wrestling 3MB eight times out of ten, that would have helped. I don't think anyone knows either at this point. It's just something that gets said. Don't get me wrong, Los Matadores suck even as a comedy act but I'd say that was more booking's failure. no one has any reason to be "relating" to either Fandango OR Los Matadores I'd say a guy like Fandango exists though. Exaggeration aside, a conceited creep like that isn't too far-fetched. Los Matadores? I don't know. Are they really legendary? Why would they hang out with an openly acknowledged as a human dressed as a bull? It's just a half-baked gimmick with nothing for the fans to cling to. They pretty much answer the question of 'will the fans chant anything' with a resounding 'no.' The gimmick is kind of a flop but I wouldn't blame Primo and Epico for it. The 'they could be more into it' talking-point has become so vague at this point, I doubt it really means anything.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 8:40:43 GMT -5
Not wacky, kiddie friendly gimmicks that glorify the needless torture and slaughter of animals they don't. bet most people in the US don't even realize a bullfight ends with the bull being killed Exactly. All I ever knew about matadors was from that Looney Tunes cartoon with Bugs Bunny. And that Tito Santana looked decent in that green & pink getup.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Nov 27, 2013 16:28:08 GMT -5
Watch the news. Watch an anchor go from serious for some political news to a feel good cool down story. This is entertainment. If I'm watching a show where someone is critically injured or some other tragedy, I'd think if they went into a three stooges comedy routine in the next scene that it would be beyond belief stupid. It would disconnect (a normal) person from the emotional gravity of the tragic scene -- especially if that was the main arc of said show/movie. I just don't have that in me. If something works on one level for me I figure it works until it doesn't. A baseball game that has someone hit in the head with a fastball continues and they'll have the racing presidents or sausages or whatever later in the game. Serious TV shows will have a moment of comic relief
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 27, 2013 20:04:06 GMT -5
This is entertainment. If I'm watching a show where someone is critically injured or some other tragedy, I'd think if they went into a three stooges comedy routine in the next scene that it would be beyond belief stupid. It would disconnect (a normal) person from the emotional gravity of the tragic scene -- especially if that was the main arc of said show/movie. I just don't have that in me. If something works on one level for me I figure it works until it doesn't. A baseball game that has someone hit in the head with a fastball continues and they'll have the racing presidents or sausages or whatever later in the game. Serious TV shows will have a moment of comic relief If said dude was carried off on a stretcher, to the point where the crowd didn't know if he was concussed, paralyzed or dying, would they have some idiot in a costume come back-flipping out a few seconds later? Absolutely not. Because the crowd would be in the moment, stunned and concerned. When Hulk Hogan got crushed by Earthquake in 1990, WWF didn't segue to a comedy skit. The entire week's shows had a somber tone to sell the gravity. Same with Jake's cobra biting Randy Savage, etc. This new (moronic) approach is something WWE manufactured, because, for whatever reason, they think of themselves as some sort of variety show, which is absurd. You can't transition to lighthearted buffoonery when just seconds before there was tragedy without it setting off some big glaring alarm that nothing matters and its all hokey and fake. Either it all exists within a real-world context with physics and ramifications and motives, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways without it being intelligence insulting. (providing those watching are actually intelligent).
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Nov 27, 2013 22:04:04 GMT -5
I just don't have that in me. If something works on one level for me I figure it works until it doesn't. A baseball game that has someone hit in the head with a fastball continues and they'll have the racing presidents or sausages or whatever later in the game. Serious TV shows will have a moment of comic relief If said dude was carried off on a stretcher, to the point where the crowd didn't know if he was concussed, paralyzed or dying, would they have some idiot in a costume come back-flipping out a few seconds later? Absolutely not. Because the crowd would be in the moment, stunned and concerned. When Hulk Hogan got crushed by Earthquake in 1990, WWF didn't segue to a comedy skit. The entire week's shows had a somber tone to sell the gravity. Same with Jake's cobra biting Randy Savage, etc. This new (moronic) approach is something WWE manufactured, because, for whatever reason, they think of themselves as some sort of variety show, which is absurd. You can't transition to lighthearted buffoonery when just seconds before there was tragedy without it setting off some big glaring alarm that nothing matters and its all hokey and fake. Either it all exists within a real-world context with physics and ramifications and motives, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways without it being intelligence insulting. (providing those watching are actually intelligent). you get awfully angry and insulting when someone challenges your views. Someone's suspension of disbelief works differently than yours and they're stupid. You know a lot of people here are constantly calling for new things. New wrestlers, new pushes, new angles, new gimmicks, new title reigns.. etc. etc. Me, I'm not that interested in moving on from characters but I do like to see a lot of different ones.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 27, 2013 22:12:09 GMT -5
It did work IMO, and it's been pretty good. A funny lower midcard face tag team to break up the tension. Not every guy on the roster needs to headline Wrestlemania one day. I agree. But at the same time, I wish that not every featured lower carder was a ridiculous comedy gimmick. I notice that only the wacky comedy guys like Los Matadores, Santino, Khali, 3MB etc. get anything resembling regular TV time while more toned down characters such as Ryder, Gabriel, Hawkins, Yoshi, Riley, are barely or never on TV and don't get much chances to showcase their personalities. The only "generic" guy who is afforded any type of shine is Tyson Kidd and that's only because Total Divas. The "gimmickless guys who can wrestle" should be given a bone every now and then too.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 27, 2013 22:14:12 GMT -5
If said dude was carried off on a stretcher, to the point where the crowd didn't know if he was concussed, paralyzed or dying, would they have some idiot in a costume come back-flipping out a few seconds later? Absolutely not. Because the crowd would be in the moment, stunned and concerned. When Hulk Hogan got crushed by Earthquake in 1990, WWF didn't segue to a comedy skit. The entire week's shows had a somber tone to sell the gravity. Same with Jake's cobra biting Randy Savage, etc. This new (moronic) approach is something WWE manufactured, because, for whatever reason, they think of themselves as some sort of variety show, which is absurd. You can't transition to lighthearted buffoonery when just seconds before there was tragedy without it setting off some big glaring alarm that nothing matters and its all hokey and fake. Either it all exists within a real-world context with physics and ramifications and motives, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways without it being intelligence insulting. (providing those watching are actually intelligent). you get awfully angry and insulting when someone challenges your views. Someone's suspension of disbelief works differently than yours and they're stupid. You know a lot of people here are constantly calling for new things. New wrestlers, new pushes, new angles, new gimmicks, new title reigns.. etc. etc. Me, I'm not that interested in moving on from characters but I do like to see a lot of different ones. I have no issues with that. I want Primo and Epico to do well. They're talented. I just think the gimmick is dated, stupid and culturally insensitive.
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 27, 2013 22:39:23 GMT -5
Let's test this by throwing them in a match against 3MB.
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Post by lildude8218 on Nov 28, 2013 1:43:26 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 2:16:39 GMT -5
Nah, but seriously. I had to really check this topic a few times to make sure this wasn't one of those topics where it'd be like: Los Matadores, then... Robots, then... A captured princess, then... A far-reaching conspiracy where our heroes cross paths with Leonardo Da Vinci, then... A story about love, then... Betrayal, then... Comedy, then... An evil advisor, then... Los Matadores fighting for the fate of the universe, then...
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Nov 28, 2013 5:20:38 GMT -5
Not wacky, kiddie friendly gimmicks that glorify the needless torture and slaughter of animals they don't. Is that what they plan to do to El Torito?! That poor tiny bull/man hybrid! Bring back Mantaur and have him as some sort of failed clone of the original? Then, have Mark Henry in a Kilt, and have Wade Barrett as Austin Powers, and then we know that Vince is finallly up to the Mid-90s.
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