Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Dec 3, 2013 17:25:05 GMT -5
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 3, 2013 17:38:56 GMT -5
It wasn't lack of interest of why CM Punk kept his indy name, it was Paul Heyman fighting to keep him the same as he was in the indies. And Chris Hero is one of the few people who isn't pointing fingers about getting future endeavored and still maintain the same passion even with heartbreaking setbacks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 18:22:38 GMT -5
The Masked Man awesome, as usual.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 3, 2013 21:01:23 GMT -5
largely a good read, especially the Chris Hero interview, but lets finally throw out the idea that nobody was interested in CM Punk from the get-go. they probably never thought he'd be as big as he is, but they knew what they had from the word go.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 3, 2013 21:04:35 GMT -5
"Indie wrestling" cannot survive. But that doesn't mean good matches. Talent indie wrestlers dropping certain indie mentalities can go a long way.
For example, if WWE started putting on matches where guys no sold finishers half an hour into matches, they would lose a lot of credibility.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Dec 3, 2013 21:08:36 GMT -5
"Punk, for his part, might not have been as small as Bryan, but he was "skinny-fat," as Triple H memorably called him on the air, and heavily tattooed — not exactly the WWE ideal."
Yes, they sure do hate their heavily tattooed wrestlers in WWE....
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 3, 2013 22:02:25 GMT -5
The thing I didn't get was how Hero is "the most noteworthy" among the up-and-coming former indy darlings, among whom Ambrose, Rollins and Cesaro were mentioned by name.
If he is noteworthy because he got released -- giving the article and discussion of indy types in WWE a jumping-off point -- I get that, but it doesn't say "because" he got released, it says "and he was released." As in, "oh, by he way, he happens to no longer be in WWE."
I would put at least Ambrose and Cesaro above Hero, who was noted in the indies as part of a tag team with ... Cesaro. I understand the story and the idea behind the story, but I never saw Hero as the best of that bunch or the one with the most potential.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 3, 2013 22:24:36 GMT -5
"Indie wrestling" cannot survive. But that doesn't mean good matches. Talent indie wrestlers dropping certain indie mentalities can go a long way. For example, if WWE started putting on matches where guys no sold finishers half an hour into matches, they would lose a lot of credibility. Yeah!! That stuff is JUST for Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker, dammit! |
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Dec 3, 2013 22:26:11 GMT -5
The thing I didn't get was how Hero is "the most noteworthy" among the up-and-coming former indy darlings, among whom Ambrose, Rollins and Cesaro were mentioned by name. If he is noteworthy because he got released -- giving the article and discussion of indy types in WWE a jumping-off point -- I get that, but it doesn't say "because" he got released, it says "and he was released." As in, "oh, by he way, he happens to no longer be in WWE." I would put at least Ambrose and Cesaro above Hero, who was noted in the indies as part of a tag team with ... Cesaro. I understand the story and the idea behind the story, but I never saw Hero as the best of that bunch or the one with the most potential. he was noteworthy because he had lengthy runs in almost every major indy promotion, and became a main eventer in all of them: IWA: Mid-South where he was a multi-time IWA: Mid-South Heavyweight Champion, CZW where he was the "savior of CZW" and a former CZW Heavyweight Champion; CHIKARA where he was co-head trainer, half of the first ever Campeones de Parejas, and was the top heel for several years; ROH where he was the leader of the heel faction in what many consider the greatest feud in ROH history (ROH vs. CZW) and one half of the longest reigning ROH World Tag Team Champions ever; PWG where he was the babyface in what many consider the greatest feud in PWG history (Hero vs. Tornado) and was the longest reigning PWG World Champion ever; numerous tours for Pro Wrestling NOAH in Japan, wXw in Germany, and various promotions in England, Mexico, Australia, etc. out of all the indy wrestlers signed, with the exception of Bryan Danielson, Chris Hero had the longest, most prolific, and most successful indy career, much more so than Ambrose, Rollins and Cesaro |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,270 
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Post by chazraps on Dec 3, 2013 22:28:23 GMT -5
The thing I didn't get was how Hero is "the most noteworthy" among the up-and-coming former indy darlings, among whom Ambrose, Rollins and Cesaro were mentioned by name. If he is noteworthy because he got released -- giving the article and discussion of indy types in WWE a jumping-off point -- I get that, but it doesn't say "because" he got released, it says "and he was released." As in, "oh, by he way, he happens to no longer be in WWE." I would put at least Ambrose and Cesaro above Hero, who was noted in the indies as part of a tag team with ... Cesaro. I understand the story and the idea behind the story, but I never saw Hero as the best of that bunch or the one with the most potential. I think the author meant "noteworthy" in terms of impact and legacy within the indie scene. Hero was one of the most visible indie wrestlers since 2000, and began to be one of the most heavily tape-traded wrestlers by 2002. Even if we're going solely by how much longer he was a major player in American indie wrestling, he's probably the most noteworthy. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 3, 2013 22:31:01 GMT -5
"Punk, for his part, might not have been as small as Bryan, but he was "skinny-fat," as Triple H memorably called him on the air, and heavily tattooed — not exactly the WWE ideal." Yes, they sure do hate their heavily tattooed wrestlers in WWE.... I can't really take it seriously how they try to paint Punk as some downtrodden "little guy". Punk's billed height is 6'2. And while he is skinny fat, he's skinny fat by his own choosing, not because he was screwed over by his genetics and couldn't attain the "Superstar look" no matter how hard he worked out. He was pretty buff for a time. Same thing with Bryan. Even with Bryan's shorter height, he is still is a fit and handsome guy, and has a better overall look than Punk. WWE just needlessly chooses to force the whole troll/Goatface thing. Bryan's size disadvantage doesn't mean as much when a good chunk of WWE's uppercard are around the same weight. WWE hasn't exactly been "the land of giants" for over a decade. |
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 3, 2013 22:34:49 GMT -5
"Indie wrestling" cannot survive. But that doesn't mean good matches. Talent indie wrestlers dropping certain indie mentalities can go a long way. For example, if WWE started putting on matches where guys no sold finishers half an hour into matches, they would lose a lot of credibility. Yeah!! That stuff is JUST for Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker, dammit! Not selling means getting hit with a finisher and getting up like nothing happened. Undertaker's a special category, I mean a guy like Seth Rollins getting hit with a finisher and acting like he got hit with a headlock takeover |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 3, 2013 22:38:28 GMT -5
Yeah!! That stuff is JUST for Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker, dammit! Not selling means getting hit with a finisher and getting up like nothing happened. Undertaker's a special category, I mean a guy like Seth Rollins getting hit with a finisher and acting like he got hit with a headlock takeover That... doesn't happen in most of the big indies. None of the wrestlers we're talking about do that. There's a lot of taking a finisher and kicking out at two, but that's just what Michaels and Taker did. |
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 3, 2013 22:44:26 GMT -5
Not selling means getting hit with a finisher and getting up like nothing happened. Undertaker's a special category, I mean a guy like Seth Rollins getting hit with a finisher and acting like he got hit with a headlock takeover That... doesn't happen in most of the big indies. None of the wrestlers we're talking about do that. There's a lot of taking a finisher and kicking out at two, but that's just what Michaels and Taker did. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose 30 minute iron man match in FCW. Both guys no sold each other's finishers in the span of about 10 seconds after 30 minutes had passed. That's what I'm referring to. Not saying it happens often, but shit like that can't happen and when Seth Rollins was called out on that spot, he called the other guy a dumbass saying it made sense |
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Post by Error on Dec 3, 2013 22:47:53 GMT -5
That... doesn't happen in most of the big indies. None of the wrestlers we're talking about do that. There's a lot of taking a finisher and kicking out at two, but that's just what Michaels and Taker did. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose 30 minute iron man match in FCW. Both guys no sold each other's finishers in the span of about 10 seconds after 30 minutes had passed. That's what I'm referring to. Not saying it happens often, but shit like that can't happen and when Seth Rollins was called out on that spot, he called the other guy a dumbass saying it made sense Didn't Trips and Orton do it literally within the first minute of their WM main event though? Hell, I think it even happened in the Punk/Cena RAW match this year. There are times it can work, IMO, haven't seen the match you are talking about so I cannot say if I think it would have worked in that one though. It is all in the story your telling. |
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 3, 2013 23:01:54 GMT -5
Not selling means getting hit with a finisher and getting up like nothing happened. Undertaker's a special category, I mean a guy like Seth Rollins getting hit with a finisher and acting like he got hit with a headlock takeover That... doesn't happen in most of the big indies. None of the wrestlers we're talking about do that. There's a lot of taking a finisher and kicking out at two, but that's just what Michaels and Taker did. Austin Aries, when I saw him live in a DGUSA show, no-sold like 7 consecutive brainbusters. Then reversed and his opponent (can't remember his name, sorry, one of the Japanese DG guys) no sold like seven consecutive Austin brainbusters. All this in like a 1-minute span. Then they went on the with match like nothing happened. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 0:20:24 GMT -5
I don't get the lack of interest for Punk stories. He was signed because of his buzz and the higher ups were probably sick of hearing him all the time. Plus they probably viewed it as a Win-Win. If Punk fails then it's Hahahahaha SMARKZ IM RIGHT AND WE ALWAYS KNOW WHATS BEST FOR BIZNESS-AH! NOW NEVER SUGGEST US WHO TO SIGN AGAIN. If Punk succeeds and lives the hype then it's sweet were making money of this guy, please smarks tell us who else is money
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Dec 4, 2013 2:55:47 GMT -5
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Dec 4, 2013 11:21:11 GMT -5
Good article, but:
It's true, but that depresses the hell out of me, given how great all four guys equally are. And it's not even Cena or Orton's fault. Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage would probably be touted as "indy guys" if they came up today, considering their backgrounds and WWE's meta approach to writing now.
And I'd say the likes of Nathan Jones or Chris Masters (before he got good) represent hard body grimacing FAR more than Cena or Orton ever did.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 4, 2013 11:29:33 GMT -5
I wanted to comment but I can't for whatever reason. I just wanted to say that I've been to several wrestling shows in my life. The Nitro where Goldberg beat Hogan. 2 RAW's in the Attitude Era. December to Dismember. A crappy local indie fed. A Smackdown house show. Wrestlemania 27...but the most entertaining show I've attended since that first Nitro when I was 11 was the Rampage Pro Wrestling show I went to last year. Adam Pearce and Kyle O'Reilly headlined and Pearce's crowd work was just enthralling. This wasn't a show full of 5 star matches or big stars, but it was the most fun I've had at an event in my adult life. |
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