Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 20:44:05 GMT -5
Hogan's first appearance on Impact is still the highest rated show in TNA history. The way TNA booked Hogan was just pathetic imo. He was on the show way too much. He should have never been a main character or GM. I didn't mind the two times he wrestled because I'm a Hogan mark and I love the reaction he still got from the fans. He should have been someone to appear once every other month or so to promote a PPV, appear a live event ticket on-sale dates, autograph signing, maybe even commentated or done some backstage interviews. Just like all the legends who have appeared in TNA, they over expose them to the point where they could be doing something very cool (i.e. Foley/Flair match on Impact) and no one will remember it. At the end of the day, Hulk Hogan had a lot of say in his own booking, just look at his exit so deserves a lot of the blame for how overexposed and poorly booked he was. I doubt anyone else backstage was pushing for him to be booked as the lead face of the company when he was barely ble to climb into the ring, let alone work a match, but creative control is a hell of a thing. With how much money Hulk was getting per appearance, it was in his best interest to be overexposed. And that's what Hulk was always out for, his own best interest, not TNA's.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Dec 6, 2013 2:28:44 GMT -5
TNA prior to Hulk Hogan leaving: Running arenas and drawing 2000-3000 fortnight to fortnight
TNA after Hulk leaves: Returns to Universal Studio's wrestles in front of 900 fans and the shows are severely lacking.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 6, 2013 3:07:01 GMT -5
TNA prior to Hulk Hogan leaving: Running arenas and drawing 2000-3000 fortnight to fortnight TNA after Hulk leaves: Returns to Universal Studio's wrestles in front of 900 fans and the shows are severely lacking. Correlation not necessarily causality.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 6, 2013 5:34:18 GMT -5
TNA prior to Hulk Hogan leaving: Running arenas and drawing 2000-3000 fortnight to fortnight TNA after Hulk leaves: Returns to Universal Studio's wrestles in front of 900 fans and the shows are severely lacking. TNA before Hulk Hogan: Turning a profit, running successful international tours with house show attendance and other aspects of the business growing steadily, they also managed to get numerous TV and merch deals without Hulk Hogan, and even got a Videogame too. TNA before the departure of Hulk Hogan: Bleeding money because of poor choices they made based on Hogan's advice, house shows not doing anything like well enough to cover the increased talent costs, never mind what they were losing by going on the road. No new programming, no new merch deals they couldn't have gotten anyway, they managed to lose revenue streams while he was there and found their PPV business withering to the point they only run four real ones a year with pretaped shows to comply with the terms of their international TV deals. You can't honestly believe their present day situation is proof that they were doing better with Hogan, the situation they're in now is because of the decisions made while Hogan had power within TNA. It's like watching a guy toss someone under a bus then making the case that the fact they were still alive in the short period they had hold of them was proof they did nothing but good.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 6, 2013 6:39:08 GMT -5
TNA prior to Hulk Hogan leaving: Running arenas and drawing 2000-3000 fortnight to fortnight TNA after Hulk leaves: Returns to Universal Studio's wrestles in front of 900 fans and the shows are severely lacking. TNA prior to Hogan's arrival: Had a national DVD distribution deal. TNA while Hogan was there, and now: Can't get a national DVD distribution deal, so they're selling them through the website.
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Post by joeiscool on Dec 6, 2013 9:13:24 GMT -5
Also tna used hogan in a way people didn't care about... People want to see Hogan Hulk up and kick butt.
We saw hogan be a father
book shows.
Ignore the nwo.
Be frail and worry about being able to walk
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 10:10:32 GMT -5
I don't think you can blame Hogan for TNA going on the road full time and then subsequently bleeding money because of it. I'm sure he agreed with the move or even suggested they do it, but he's not in charge of the company. It was up to Dixie to say "we can't afford that Hulk". Could have avoided the whole thing.
TNA in 2012 proved they could book great shows with Hogan on board. Unfortunately they didn't do it often enough.
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Post by joeiscool on Dec 6, 2013 10:12:06 GMT -5
Also there's a bigger issue which is less people are watching tv. The biggest drop in tv watchers are tna's biggest viewers 18 to 30 year olds
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 6, 2013 10:21:08 GMT -5
Also tna used hogan in a way people didn't care about... People want to see Hogan Hulk up and kick butt.
We saw hogan be a father
book shows.
Ignore the nwo.
Be frail and worry about being able to walkThis post is oddly poetic and beautiful, albeit with an element of melancholy, tragedy and sadness to it. More so after I've framed it with "Georgia" italics.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 9:55:55 GMT -5
Exactly. Hogan screwed TNA so hard that they ended up having to cut the budget hard and get off the road and back to the Impact Zone.
...and the shows were just as lacking when he was there. I mean, sure, there are less dangerous pits being created now but...
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Welfare Willis
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Posts: 44,259
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Post by Welfare Willis on Dec 7, 2013 11:13:00 GMT -5
Also tna used hogan in a way people didn't care about... People want to see Hogan Hulk up and kick butt.
We saw hogan be a father
book shows.
Ignore the nwo.
Be frail and worry about being able to walkThis post is oddly poetic and beautiful, albeit with an element of melancholy, tragedy and sadness to it. More so after I've framed it with "Georgia" italics. Read it while listening to this...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 0:06:55 GMT -5
Actually before Hogan:
The good: Knockout Division getting better and better. Strong X-Division. A few great tag teams (MCM and BeerMoney).
The Bad: Terrible reputation as a joke promotion. No main event scene, way too many "non wrestlers" on tv every week. Stupid faction story lines.
During Hulk Hogan's run:
The Good: Larger exposure...at first. Improved main event scene. Less backstage non wrestlers. Bruse Pritchard being fired.
The Bad: Knockout and X-Division reduced massively. More stupid faction story lines. Large amounts of money wasted, bring in stale old talent. The winner of the monday night war (Mick Foley) replaced by the looser's of the monday night war (Bishoff and Hogan). Going on the road when they had no real fan base, a company that's is not making money should not increase expenses. Bruce Pritchard being hired. Hogan and Bishoff's bad ideas resulting in Janice Carter cutting the budget several times.
After Hogan:
The good: No more Hogan. Brooke Hogan and Eric Bishoff gone.
The Bad: Roster is shrinking at an alarming rate. Ratings are lower than ever. And because of Hogans bad ideas there is no money left to fix any of the problems.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 9, 2013 8:55:13 GMT -5
Dixie played right into his hand. Even if he had 100 % creative control, if she refuses something what else is he to do? Can he sue for breach of contract? Perhaps but unlike Vince I doubt lawyers would be so willing to take TNA to court with their lack of money and exposure. He can always leave but where else can he go? Maybe WWE but he can't get away with even half the things he did in TNA. Hogan put out a trap for Dixie and just like a mouse she walked right into it.
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Post by gnr123 on Dec 11, 2013 15:03:11 GMT -5
TNA prior to Hulk Hogan leaving: Running arenas and drawing 2000-3000 fortnight to fortnight TNA after Hulk leaves: Returns to Universal Studio's wrestles in front of 900 fans and the shows are severely lacking. They went back to Universal Studios BECAUSE they thought with Hogan they could get big crowds on the road. They didn't. Just like every other thing they tried with Hogan failed, going on the road did as well. TNA would have went back to Orlando with our without Hogan, the shows weren't selling nearly as much as they should have. Getting 2-3k for a show is good, but not when their in arena's that hold 10-12k of people. That's why they went back to Orlando.
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Post by Bram wants to 'urt you on Dec 12, 2013 5:46:05 GMT -5
One of Hogan's biggest skills is his ability to promote himself, and to convince people that the "Hogan pop" will translate into legitimate buys. While there's little doubt that the guy still gets a genuine, affectionate nostalgia buzz from the fans, that's ALL he gets.
Whether, as Dixie stated in her interview, his name carries any weight in terms of "just wait a second, we'll put Mr Hogan on the phone for you", is something we're not privy to, but in terms of fan reaction alone, the guy gets a big response from those in attendance, but doesn't seem to persuade any new or additional attendees to come forward.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 12, 2013 7:03:34 GMT -5
I think if Hogan could be used right as a special attraction and a supplement to TNA's product, he could have been the credibility bump that TNA needed. The problem with this is that Hogan is just not content with walking out to the ring, speaking for five minutes, and collecting a paycheck.
Hogan, in his mind, has to be the main attraction, or he ain't listening, brother. So, we have to deal with Hogan being the focus of the entire company despite the fact that he can't go any more, or refuses to meaningfully put over the talent that can go while the show focuses on him. The second big problem is he wants the keys to the ship so to speak, and while fans may tune into see him, they don't think much of the product that he had a hand in creating. Fans may have tuned in during that first Monday night show, but they weren't interested by the product that him and Bischoff had a hand in creating, from the Nasty Boys and Sean Morely to Aces & Eights and Brooke Hogan.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 12, 2013 9:58:24 GMT -5
Everyone knew Hogan was a bust investment. If you have a band with a growing reputation and medium sized reliable fanbase and then one day David Lee Roth shows up and wants to sing for you, it would sound awesome on paper. However, the catch is he can't learn you're songs or style of music. Well, he's still a huge name and can draw a bigger crowd then you normally get. So you do a few of his songs and the new crowd loves it. Except that crowd is Van Halen and Roth fans and you're original fans start leaving. And after awhile the small area you were touring in the novelty wears and the Van Halen and Roth fans won't buy you're CDs of your music and aren't interested in your stuff that you try to play when Dave leaves stage for a breather. So with the novelty dieing off in your small niche you have to go on the road.
Then Dave decides one day "eh that was a fun trip down memory lane I'm taking off guys". So you try to go back to you're old stuff with less of you're original fans and promoters who booked you gigs and fans thinking they were getting Dave wanting nothing to do with you or your originals. Now you're just another crappy Van Halen cover band just to survive.
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Post by Danimal on Dec 15, 2013 9:42:58 GMT -5
Ya, Hogan wasn't a longterm fix for attendance or ratings. He couldn't really wrestle anymore and nostalgia fades with overexposure. Thing is he could've been a difference-maker. When he and RVD came to TNA the show had momentum and ratings were up. Then they went with the INSANE idea of trying to restart the Monday Night Wars. Of course they lost and had to head back to Thursdays with their tails between their legs and ratings back in the basement. All the momentum/boost Hogan brought was out the window. To be fair, you can't place all the blame TNA for ruining Hogan's momentum with the move to Mondays when it was something he and Bischoff pushed for in the first place. They believed two guys who managed to turn a company into the serious contender to the WWF knew what they were doing... A decision I'm sure they regret, but that's hindsight for you. I know Hogan and Bisch were involved in the decision to go to Mondays, and of course they share the blame for that trainweck. Never understood why they were sold on listening to Bisch. He ran WCW into the ground. Ya he had some success there but the majority of that was being able to throw Turner's money around and WWE letting themselves get stale. The NWO and Goldberg were great ideas but give me all those years with a company I could come up with some good stuff too. Thing is ultimately it wasn't Hogan or Bisch's decision to make, powers that be screwed the pooch.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 15, 2013 10:05:49 GMT -5
To be fair, you can't place all the blame TNA for ruining Hogan's momentum with the move to Mondays when it was something he and Bischoff pushed for in the first place. They believed two guys who managed to turn a company into the serious contender to the WWF knew what they were doing... A decision I'm sure they regret, but that's hindsight for you. I know Hogan and Bisch were involved in the decision to go to Mondays, and of course they share the blame for that trainweck. Never understood why they were sold on listening to Bisch. He ran WCW into the ground. Ya he had some success there but the majority of that was being able to throw Turner's money around and WWE letting themselves get stale. The NWO and Goldberg were great ideas but give me all those years with a company I could come up with some good stuff too. Thing is ultimately it wasn't Hogan or Bisch's decision to make, powers that be screwed the pooch. They listened to Bisch so much because at one point he was beating WWE, over a decade ago. People still think that means a lot. Yeah he was beating them, but then got the shit kicked out of him. It's like someone bragging about leading for a couple of quarters in a football game. Yeah congrats, you were beating them for 2 quarters, but you still got stomped at the end. Bischoff even loves to brag that he was beating WWE. That really doesn't matter because when it was all said and done, that company that was running on fumes still won. Bischoff went to work for Vince McMahon, not the other way around.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 15, 2013 10:37:49 GMT -5
To be fair, you can't place all the blame TNA for ruining Hogan's momentum with the move to Mondays when it was something he and Bischoff pushed for in the first place. They believed two guys who managed to turn a company into the serious contender to the WWF knew what they were doing... A decision I'm sure they regret, but that's hindsight for you. I know Hogan and Bisch were involved in the decision to go to Mondays, and of course they share the blame for that trainweck. Never understood why they were sold on listening to Bisch. He ran WCW into the ground. Ya he had some success there but the majority of that was being able to throw Turner's money around and WWE letting themselves get stale. The NWO and Goldberg were great ideas but give me all those years with a company I could come up with some good stuff too. Thing is ultimately it wasn't Hogan or Bisch's decision to make, powers that be screwed the pooch. Bischoff seems to be one of those people with the gift of the gab, that can get people to believe that his ideas are good ones, ignoring his track record of abysmal failures. He managed to persuade Ted Turner to promote him over Jim Ross and give him all the money he needs and a primetime TV slot, heck, he managed to talk TV networks into showing shows about Scott Baio for crying out loud so there's no wonder he was able to talk Dixie and Spike into the Monday move. In the old days, Bischoff would be someone selling snake oil at a fairground, he'd shill and sell his poisonous product then pack his carpet bag and move onto the next town before people start getting sick so his audience don't know of the track record of what he's selling... They just see this charismatic man making promises and fall for it. Heck, he even has the Hulkster like an accomplice they'd plant in the audience, selling the Bischoff brand. Ladies and Gentlemen and TV Executives, step right up and be the first to buy a bottle of Doctor Bischoff's revitalising tonic! He made Hulk Hogan relevant again, just think what magic he can work for you!
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