SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 4, 2013 13:28:32 GMT -5
I always get a kick out of the bubble world the Cena character lives in. He speaks with such authority on things no rational thinking human being could agree with or believe. I used to subscribe to the theory, as Rock once pointed out, that the character is a contrived phony. But I now realize that the character believes all the lies, fake hyperbole and inaccuracies he spouts. Its like he's a deranged embodiment of Vince McMahon's personal belief system. Which would be hilarious if he was a heel because we could all laugh at it like we did Backlund's character. But the fact it's passed off in the narrative as being correct is a little disturbing.
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Post by The Portable Stove on Dec 4, 2013 13:35:28 GMT -5
I wonder what else he could come up with. Maybe, since Austin's time at the top totaled out to five years, he could use that and say that Austin isn't half the superstar he is.
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Post by sportatorium on Dec 4, 2013 15:13:13 GMT -5
I always get a kick out of the bubble world the Cena character lives in. He speaks with such authority on things no rational thinking human being could agree with or believe. I used to subscribe to the theory, as Rock once pointed out, that the character is a contrived phony. But I now realize that the character believes all the lies, fake hyperbole and inaccuracies he spouts. Its like he's a deranged embodiment of Vince McMahon's personal belief system. Which would be hilarious if he was a heel because we could all laugh at it like we did Backlund's character. But the fact it's passed off in the narrative as being correct is a little disturbing. God...this so very much. It isn't a wrestling angle that fans can enjoy watching their favorite good guy beat the bad guy, it just takes on this forced detail which rather than enhancing the story makes you forget why they are fighting in the first place.
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Post by The Beast Disincarnate on Dec 4, 2013 15:16:19 GMT -5
The HHH era: You have something to say to one of your employee, you're not happy about something he has said or done, you feel the need to humiliate him ? DO IT ON LIVE TV, and say it to his face, but hey, it's part of the storyline
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Post by angryfan on Dec 4, 2013 15:26:10 GMT -5
I always get a kick out of the bubble world the Cena character lives in. He speaks with such authority on things no rational thinking human being could agree with or believe. I used to subscribe to the theory, as Rock once pointed out, that the character is a contrived phony. But I now realize that the character believes all the lies, fake hyperbole and inaccuracies he spouts. Its like he's a deranged embodiment of Vince McMahon's personal belief system. Which would be hilarious if he was a heel because we could all laugh at it like we did Backlund's character. But the fact it's passed off in the narrative as being correct is a little disturbing. The point of "If he was a heel" speaks volumes. Take Cena's promo on Orton and have Orton deliver it, and what's the reaction? "He's a heel, I expect him to be that delusional". What if Triple H gave the promo? "It's the same thing he always says, delusional ego stroke". The difference is, they're heels, and it fits the character narrative. An uber-good guy "I'm the only one the4 kids have to cheer for" babyface, just no. Take that promo, have Hogan give it in the lead up to facing, let's asy, Sgt. Slaughter in '91? Would it fit? How about Savage when he was the number 2 babyface? Better yet, let's remove Hogan from it. Ricky Steamboat was the eternal babyface. Could you picture him cutting that promo against Savage or Flair or anyone else?
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 4, 2013 15:43:38 GMT -5
The HHH era: You have something to say to one of your employee, you're not happy about something he has said or done, you feel the need to humiliate him ? DO IT ON LIVE TV, and say it to his face, but hey, it's part of the storyline Yeah, this right here is the skeeziest part. They're mad at Orton because he hasn't made them as much money as they thought he would at first. Actually, this is reminding me a little of the Cena/Miz feud, where they went out of their way to paint the bad guy as a virtuous, brave underdog who overcame an unjust system.... because the unjust system is what makes the people in charge their money.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 4, 2013 17:02:57 GMT -5
It was awful.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Dec 4, 2013 18:08:42 GMT -5
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Post by machomuta on Dec 4, 2013 18:09:21 GMT -5
I love how people are bashing Cena for cutting shitty promos.
The Uncreative team are the ones who are writing his shitty promos not Cena himself.
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Post by cahuette on Dec 4, 2013 18:22:06 GMT -5
I love how people are bashing Cena for cutting shitty promos. The Uncreative team are the ones who are writing his shitty promos not Cena himself. Cena can't even write his own promos? What a loser!
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Dec 4, 2013 19:54:29 GMT -5
No it wasn't. It made sense within kayfabe.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 4, 2013 20:16:40 GMT -5
No it wasn't. It made sense within kayfabe. It was stupid, and made no sense in any universe contrived or real.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Dec 4, 2013 20:25:27 GMT -5
I always get a kick out of the bubble world the Cena character lives in. He speaks with such authority on things no rational thinking human being could agree with or believe. I used to subscribe to the theory, as Rock once pointed out, that the character is a contrived phony. But I now realize that the character believes all the lies, fake hyperbole and inaccuracies he spouts. Its like he's a deranged embodiment of Vince McMahon's personal belief system. Which would be hilarious if he was a heel because we could all laugh at it like we did Backlund's character. But the fact it's passed off in the narrative as being correct is a little disturbing. I think it's almost much more powerful because he's booked as a 'face', but that term today really means nothing. To be a face today means to be more likeable than the next guy. So he's a face, kind of, but only by proxy, but according to the structure of the show, he's a face in the "always does good" sense of the term, but the reality doesn't hold up to the historical ideal. And then in kayfabe he talks shit about Randy Orton, and everything he says makes no sense, like, how is that not the perfect heel? He believes what he says is right, even though he's factually wrong (despite whatever feelings you have about Orton, he's certainly competent and capable as an in-ring talent). So on the surface Cena fans get to cheer their guy, but anti-Cena fans (or pro-Orton fans, which aren't necessarily the same thing) get to have their cake and eat it too. In that sense, he's a complex character because he IS completely insane, nonsensical, and contradictory. The Backlund comparison is apt, because it's almost smart in a stupid sort of way how WWE books Cena as a face who's a heel who's a face who's a heel. I doubt they decided to go 'meta' with the storytelling, and wrestling works much more efficiently without all the Russoesque twists and turns, but there's enough ammo to make a heel Cena worthwhile without doing that much of anything different, really. Just have him direct his bullshit at faces instead of heels. Backlund meets 1999-2000 Kurt Angle. And the thing is, Cena's a smart enough performer to make that work. WWE just needs to make that part of his character a little bit more explicit (because what I'm doing is subversively reading how the character is presented).
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 4, 2013 20:59:38 GMT -5
I always get a kick out of the bubble world the Cena character lives in. He speaks with such authority on things no rational thinking human being could agree with or believe. I used to subscribe to the theory, as Rock once pointed out, that the character is a contrived phony. But I now realize that the character believes all the lies, fake hyperbole and inaccuracies he spouts. Its like he's a deranged embodiment of Vince McMahon's personal belief system. Which would be hilarious if he was a heel because we could all laugh at it like we did Backlund's character. But the fact it's passed off in the narrative as being correct is a little disturbing. I think it's almost much more powerful because he's booked as a 'face', but that term today really means nothing. To be a face today means to be more likeable than the next guy. So he's a face, kind of, but only by proxy, but according to the structure of the show, he's a face in the "always does good" sense of the term, but the reality doesn't hold up to the historical ideal. And then in kayfabe he talks shit about Randy Orton, and everything he says makes no sense, like, how is that not the perfect heel? He believes what he says is right, even though he's factually wrong (despite whatever feelings you have about Orton, he's certainly competent and capable as an in-ring talent). So on the surface Cena fans get to cheer their guy, but anti-Cena fans (or pro-Orton fans, which aren't necessarily the same thing) get to have their cake and eat it too. In that sense, he's a complex character because he IS completely insane, nonsensical, and contradictory. The Backlund comparison is apt, because it's almost smart in a stupid sort of way how WWE books Cena as a face who's a heel who's a face who's a heel. I doubt they decided to go 'meta' with the storytelling, and wrestling works much more efficiently without all the Russoesque twists and turns, but there's enough ammo to make a heel Cena worthwhile without doing that much of anything different, really. Just have him direct his bullshit at faces instead of heels. Backlund meets 1999-2000 Kurt Angle. And the thing is, Cena's a smart enough performer to make that work. WWE just needs to make that part of his character a little bit more explicit (because what I'm doing is subversively reading how the character is presented). Awesome post. And so true.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 4, 2013 21:14:12 GMT -5
Having Cena mouth off to Orton that he was the "chosen one" and that Orton "never lived up to his potential" was ludicrous. As if Orton would pay any attention to those remarks, when we all know he had very good matches in his first two years. He also added "You are most gifted WWE superstar ever, but then you got cocky...got lazy" They want us to buy that Orton is this talented superstar who is such a coward and needs the Authority but it makes no sense. Cena has been the poster boy/face of the WWE since 2005 and they try to weaken Orton and make him look like a coward to keep the Cenation happy? But all of those things are true. Orton was chosen by the company to be the face. Cena was destined to rot in a midcard comedy jobber gimmick until he got over with the fans. He's only the face of the company because Orton smoked pot and shit in gym bags. If Orton were the model employee that Cena is, Cena would've been thrown under the bus a long time ago.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 21:16:22 GMT -5
Seriously, it's like, "You kicked my dad in the head but, you know what's really bad? YOU NEVER LIVED UP TO YOUR POTENTIAL!!!!"
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 21:19:54 GMT -5
Having Cena mouth off to Orton that he was the "chosen one" and that Orton "never lived up to his potential" was ludicrous. As if Orton would pay any attention to those remarks, when we all know he had very good matches in his first two years. He also added "You are most gifted WWE superstar ever, but then you got cocky...got lazy" They want us to buy that Orton is this talented superstar who is such a coward and needs the Authority but it makes no sense. Cena has been the poster boy/face of the WWE since 2005 and they try to weaken Orton and make him look like a coward to keep the Cenation happy? But all of those things are true. Orton was chosen by the company to be the face. Cena was destined to rot in a midcard comedy jobber gimmick until he got over with the fans. He's only the face of the company because Orton smoked pot and shit in gym bags. If Orton were the model employee that Cena is, Cena would've been thrown under the bus a long time ago. YES. That had been on the tip of my fingers for ages now. Orton was supposed to be their Golden Boy, but they begrudgingly accepted Cena because Orton crashed and burned. I wouldn't even say they accepted Cena because he got over; as we've seen being able to get over doesn't mean shit if they still don't really want to push you. Cena is where he is only because Orton was the one who messed up.
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Essential1
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 6,080
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Post by Essential1 on Dec 4, 2013 21:24:41 GMT -5
Well Super Cena was was way before Orton wrecked hotels and shat in bags.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 22:44:28 GMT -5
It's the entire problem with worked-shoot promos.
As other's have already mentioned Orton is a multi time World/WWE champ, he's beaten down legends, beaten The Undertaker at points, taken down the bosses family, so in kayfabe land he's already on the level with Cena.
Trying to add in inferences to backstage incidents is absolutely stupid when it's not done for any storyline investment. "You should be where I am, I worked harder behind the scenes" matters sweet FA to me as a fan, we're investing in characters and wins and stories, not backstage eye roll worthy nonsense.
When the WWE does the whole worked-shoot right, great, when it's there to put over an angle that makes sense, fine, when it's there to try to add spice to a feud that's deader than the corpse of Hawk then it's terrible writing regardless.
Wrestling is fiction and in the story books Randy Orton is on par with John Cena in terms of achievement and memorable storyline moments.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Dec 4, 2013 22:53:54 GMT -5
Seriously, it's like, "You kicked my dad in the head but, you know what's really bad? YOU NEVER LIVED UP TO YOUR POTENTIAL!!!!" But would you really want the WWE to use continuity to the point where Cena has to bring up Orton kicking his dad in the head every time they confront each other? Something like that seems really irrelevant to their feud right now.
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