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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 4, 2013 13:35:05 GMT -5
Yes, it's a common citation that the only homegrown superstar that WCW made during the Monday Night War era was Goldberg. That's fine, but why is DDP never taken into account? From my limited viewing, admittedly, he seemed quite over, could main PPVs, won WHCs and was a top-line on the WCW side in the war against the NWO. So, why does DDP never enter into the conversation on homegrown WCW stars?
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Post by Stu on Dec 4, 2013 14:19:23 GMT -5
Maybe cuz he started in the AWA?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 14:20:17 GMT -5
He didn't start in WCW. He got started in AWA.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Dec 4, 2013 14:25:38 GMT -5
He wasn't a star in the AWA. I think Page deserves to be considered a top homegrown star alongside Goldberg. If you go by the logic that a place didn't make a top star when they began some place else, then the only homegrown WWF/E star that I can think of until they monopolized the industry would have been The Rock.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 15:23:59 GMT -5
What about Steve Austin and Cactus Jack?
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Post by SOR on Dec 4, 2013 15:41:17 GMT -5
DDP made it big in WCW so he counts. He was a manager in the AWA but really became a national star under the WCW banner.
There are a handful of other guys who WCW made famous as well. The whole "Goldberg is the only star they made" is WWE bullshit that they've made up.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 4, 2013 15:46:27 GMT -5
Much like the claim that WCW stole talent discovered by others, it's an easy way to dismiss all of WCW's achievements, one that seems to make sense if you don't look too close which is why it gets parroted time and time again by people that didn't like WCW. If you apply that logic to the WWE, the only real stars it's created in 50 years are Randy Orton and The Rock, everyone else has worked somewhere else.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 4, 2013 15:58:31 GMT -5
DDP made it big in WCW so he counts. He was a manager in the AWA but really became a national star under the WCW banner. There are a handful of other guys who WCW made famous as well. The whole "Goldberg is the only star they made" is WWE bullshit that they've made up. I can only assume you're referring to Booker T and Scott Steiner. I guess a case could be made for Luger too, as he was made a star by the NWA. Hell, I kind of have a hard time referring to Scott Steiner as a homegrown star, but I guess WCW was the first organization to give him a real singles push. The NWO was mostly former WWF stars with a few former WCW jobbers like Buff Bagwell thrown in. Mysterio, Benoit, Jericho, Malenko and tons of other highly talented guys were stars in the eyes of many fans, but only Benoit really got to sniff the main event and he left WCW immediately afterward. WWF was taking WCW's midcarders and turning them into bonafide superstars, while also building their own homegrown guys. In comparison, WCW mostly took WWF's former wrestlers and kept them in the same position they were in with WWF. Sometimes they even pushed them down the card a bit. They really didn't see the value of homegrown talent for some reason. |
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 4, 2013 16:03:48 GMT -5
Much like the claim that WCW stole talent discovered by others, it's an easy way to dismiss all of WCW's achievements, one that seems to make sense if you don't look too close which is why it gets parroted time and time again by people that didn't like WCW. If you apply that logic to the WWE, the only real stars it's created in 50 years are Randy Orton and The Rock, everyone else has worked somewhere else. The problem wasn't that WCW didn't train wrestlers and practically build them from the ground up. The problem is that WCW's main even scene really only consisted of proven draws from other companies and they were very hesitant to ever push new people. It wasn't until Russo came along that guys like Booker T and Scott Steiner became main eventers, but even then they were putting the title on people like Sid and Jeff Jarrett (who to be fair, was pushed way harder in WCW than in WWF, but again, I think WCW used him incorrectly). On the flip side, WWF took people like Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero and gave them a higher profile than WCW ever did basically right from the get-go. Hell, WCW even had HHH, Edge and Undertaker during their early careers. I think they simply didn't have the ability to see people's potential like WWF did. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 16:54:32 GMT -5
Somewhat comically the Giant was made a star in WCW despite what Vince would probably claim.
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Post by angryfan on Dec 4, 2013 16:59:14 GMT -5
Home Grown talent in WCW that were treated as main eventers? "Stars" that they made? Sting was their constant, and since he was made in 1988 with the Flair matches, I'd say he counts. DDP as a wrestler, Goldberg obviously as the thread states, and then I guess Booker? I mean as a singles star, or would he and Scott Steiner both be unusual cases? Beyond that...I guess just Buff Bagwell since he was pushed heavily from day one (he was the "rookie of the year" of course)
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Post by nickcave on Dec 4, 2013 23:41:43 GMT -5
The Giant certainly counts as a homegrown WCW star
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Dec 5, 2013 0:43:01 GMT -5
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Post by SOR on Dec 5, 2013 3:33:09 GMT -5
DDP made it big in WCW so he counts. He was a manager in the AWA but really became a national star under the WCW banner. There are a handful of other guys who WCW made famous as well. The whole "Goldberg is the only star they made" is WWE bullshit that they've made up. I can only assume you're referring to Booker T and Scott Steiner. I guess a case could be made for Luger too, as he was made a star by the NWA. Hell, I kind of have a hard time referring to Scott Steiner as a homegrown star, but I guess WCW was the first organization to give him a real singles push. The NWO was mostly former WWF stars with a few former WCW jobbers like Buff Bagwell thrown in. Mysterio, Benoit, Jericho, Malenko and tons of other highly talented guys were stars in the eyes of many fans, but only Benoit really got to sniff the main event and he left WCW immediately afterward. WWF was taking WCW's midcarders and turning them into bonafide superstars, while also building their own homegrown guys. In comparison, WCW mostly took WWF's former wrestlers and kept them in the same position they were in with WWF. Sometimes they even pushed them down the card a bit. They really didn't see the value of homegrown talent for some reason. Honestly there are a lot. I'd count Booker T, Lex Luger and Scott Steiner from who you mentioned but I'd also include guys like Jeff Jarrett who became full fledged main eventers over in WCW. Sting should also be thrown here along with a lot of other guys. The WWF built more guys up for sure but WCW created more than 1. It's wrong that the WWE just totally re writes history like that all the time. |
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Post by jimmyjames on Dec 5, 2013 3:37:33 GMT -5
I've always thought this to be just another WWE slap at WCW, saying they were only successful because of the Turner Broadcasting bankroll, hilariously ironic, since Vince was accused of just the same thing with WWF. The same not developing main event talent during this timespan could also be said about WWF/E. Besides, what counts as developing talent? Is it after the indys? Becoming a main eventer after leaving another fed and coming to WCW? Does a wrestler have to have started from the bottom with only WCW? What about the NWA? There are so many variables, that anyone can draw a different conclusion.
Another factor is how completely different the non WWF/WCW wrestling landscape changed in a short period of time. Look at the wrestling organizations that were competitors (and potential talent pools) to WWf & WCW there were between 1987-1995. AWA, GWF, the NWA. IT was pretty hard to go to either WWF or WCW without being somewhere eles. From 1995-2003, it's a whole different situation, because there was really only WWF/E & WCw, and of course the winner WWE.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 5, 2013 8:05:07 GMT -5
I totally forgot about the Giant.
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Post by Stu on Dec 5, 2013 10:50:41 GMT -5
If we're only focusing on the period during the Monday Night War, guys like Luger and Sting wouldn't count. Goldberg, Booker T, etc., yeah.
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 5, 2013 18:19:24 GMT -5
If the AWA gets credit for DDP, then WCW gets credit for Steve Austin, Kevin Nash, Sid, Mick Foley, Rob Van Dam, Scott Levy, and probably a ton of other guys. They're a star factory!!
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Post by evilone on Dec 5, 2013 18:26:54 GMT -5
If you gonna argue that Benoit, Guerrero and Jericho reached their star status fulfilment in WWE then you can say the same for Hogan, Nash and Hall. They became accomplished both inside and outside of the ring in wrestling business while they were in WCW.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Dec 5, 2013 19:15:30 GMT -5
Yeah, you could make an argument that Kevin Nash never reached his full potential under he jumped to WCW. Despite what some WWF/WWE fans (and company insiders) think, "Diesel" will never be as over as Kevin Nash, the wise-cracking cool heel. I'd say he would be the best counterexample to Benoit if you count him as a star WWE "made".
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