TheDieselTrain
Fry's dog Seymour
Chicks Dig Hootie.
Is Stone Cold gonna have to smack a bitch?? WHAT!!!?????
Posts: 23,724
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Dec 6, 2013 22:21:37 GMT -5
So on Smackdown tonight Micheal Cole said just not to confuse people when we had an undisputed champion in 2001 that was then they combined the WWE and WCW titles. The match at TLC will be for the WWE and world's title dating back to 1920 or whenever. ummm WHAT?  ?? Didnt the nwa title become the WCW title which was unified in 2001 When did WCW create its own title with absolutely no lineage at all you know unlike the current Worlds Heavyweight title. I remember the awesome intro to Unforgiven 2002 which was the first ppv with two world champions and they showed a montage of people winning the nwa title and wcw titles at various points. So obviously the WCW title is linked to the old nwa title. ::sigh:: My head hurts. If were gonna go that route then who was the first WCW champion then? |
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Post by Error on Dec 6, 2013 22:33:36 GMT -5
The NWA Title has never been a part the WCW Title and WWE has no legal claim to the NWA lineage other than owning the vast majority of the companies it was defended in. Much like with TNA, the NWA Title was the top title for WCW for awhile but they split in 1991 when the whole Flair/Herd debacle happened and WCW decided to have their own title since the NWA was still recognizing Flair. The first WCW Champ was Lex Luger when he won the title at the GAB and turned heel. The NWA Title is still in use and Rob Conway is the champion.
When WWE talks about the World Heavyweight Championship's lineage, 99% of the time they are talking about the physical title/design and not tracing it to a company. This is one of those times they are trying to tie it to the NWA belt and it doesn't work
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Dec 6, 2013 22:36:21 GMT -5
So on Smackdown tonight Micheal Cole said just not to confuse people when we had an undisputed champion in 2001 that was then they combined the WWE and WCW titles. The match at TLC will be for the WWE and world's title dating back to 1920 or whenever. ummm WHAT? ?? Didnt the nwa title become the WCW title which was unified in 2001 When did WCW create its own title with absolutely no lineage at all you know unlike the current Worlds Heavyweight title. I remember the awesome intro to Unforgiven 2002 which was the first ppv with two world champions and they showed a montage of people winning the nwa title and wcw titles at various points. So obviously the WCW title is linked to the old nwa title. ::sigh:: My head hurts. If were gonna go that route then who was the first WCW champion then? They pick and chose the WHC lineage at will. It has a legitimate (as legitimate as pro wrestling gets) claim to being the same as the WCW WHC, which is different than the NWA Title. The WCW title split when Turner split with the NWA in 1991. The same thing happened in TNA when Christian was champion. |
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TheDieselTrain
Fry's dog Seymour
Chicks Dig Hootie.
Is Stone Cold gonna have to smack a bitch?? WHAT!!!?????
Posts: 23,724
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Dec 6, 2013 22:45:42 GMT -5
So on Smackdown tonight Micheal Cole said just not to confuse people when we had an undisputed champion in 2001 that was then they combined the WWE and WCW titles. The match at TLC will be for the WWE and world's title dating back to 1920 or whenever. ummm WHAT? ?? Didnt the nwa title become the WCW title which was unified in 2001 When did WCW create its own title with absolutely no lineage at all you know unlike the current Worlds Heavyweight title. I remember the awesome intro to Unforgiven 2002 which was the first ppv with two world champions and they showed a montage of people winning the nwa title and wcw titles at various points. So obviously the WCW title is linked to the old nwa title. ::sigh:: My head hurts. If were gonna go that route then who was the first WCW champion then? They pick and chose the WHC lineage at will. It has a legitimate (as legitimate as pro wrestling gets) claim to being the same as the WCW WHC, which is different than the NWA Title. The WCW title split when Turner split with the NWA in 1991. The same thing happened in TNA when Christian was champion. I refer back to the Unforgiven 2002 intro which I would like to link but cant due to it not being a fannation video but in it they clearly link the two as one showing Harley Race, Jack Brisco, Dory Funk, Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes with it and/or winning it and then it goes to Luger, Vader, Goldberg, Hogan & Nash showing them celebrating winning the big gold belt. |
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Dec 6, 2013 22:47:14 GMT -5
They pick and chose the WHC lineage at will. It has a legitimate (as legitimate as pro wrestling gets) claim to being the same as the WCW WHC, which is different than the NWA Title. The WCW title split when Turner split with the NWA in 1991. The same thing happened in TNA when Christian was champion. I refer back to the Unforgiven 2002 intro which I would like to link but cant due to it not being a fannation video but in it they clearly link the two as one showing Harley Race, Jack Brisco, Dory Funk, Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes with it and/or winning it and then it goes to Luger, Vader, Goldberg, Hogan & Nash showing them celebrating winning the big gold belt. Yeah, they f***ed up there. The WCW/WHC was never the NWA Title. |
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Chuck Conry
Dennis Stamp
zombies DON'T Run
Posts: 3,825
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Post by Chuck Conry on Dec 6, 2013 22:56:35 GMT -5
Title histories are a can of worms and a pain in the ass. Whatever the company that holds the right to it says goes, but when they don't even know where to start or what counts it makes things ungodly worse.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 6, 2013 23:01:48 GMT -5
Cool how the three tops titles in North American wrestling were spawned from splitting with the NWA title. TNA, WCW/WHC, WWE and, hell, even ECW belt all came out immediately splitting with the NWA. Makes the NWA belt seem like some sort of ancestor all pro-wrestling in the States.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Dec 6, 2013 23:14:50 GMT -5
Cool how the three tops titles in North American wrestling were spawned from splitting with the NWA title. TNA, WCW/WHC, WWE and, hell, even ECW belt all came out immediately splitting with the NWA. Makes the NWA belt seem like some sort of ancestor all pro-wrestling in the States. Add the AWA title to that list as well |
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Dec 6, 2013 23:15:17 GMT -5
They pick and chose the WHC lineage at will. It has a legitimate (as legitimate as pro wrestling gets) claim to being the same as the WCW WHC, which is different than the NWA Title. The WCW title split when Turner split with the NWA in 1991. The same thing happened in TNA when Christian was champion. I refer back to the Unforgiven 2002 intro which I would like to link but cant due to it not being a fannation video but in it they clearly link the two as one showing Harley Race, Jack Brisco, Dory Funk, Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes with it and/or winning it and then it goes to Luger, Vader, Goldberg, Hogan & Nash showing them celebrating winning the big gold belt. ......never mind that shit, HERE COMES MONGO!! |
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Dec 6, 2013 23:23:16 GMT -5
Cool how the three tops titles in North American wrestling were spawned from splitting with the NWA title. TNA, WCW/WHC, WWE and, hell, even ECW belt all came out immediately splitting with the NWA. Makes the NWA belt seem like some sort of ancestor all pro-wrestling in the States. the ECW title existed before ECW joined (and later left) the NWA |
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 7, 2013 1:04:50 GMT -5
WWE tracing it's "heritage" back to Hackenschmidt is like me tracing my family tree back to Jesus Christ.
It's selective bullshit.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 7, 2013 1:13:13 GMT -5
 With all the splits and the merges and splits again and merges again, maybe they're right? |
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Post by kamero00 on Dec 7, 2013 1:46:03 GMT -5
This is only made more confusing because when WCW recognized the NWA champ as their top champion, it was the same physical title that would eventually become the WCW title. Even MORE confusing, when Ric Flair took the WCW title to the WWE in 1992, it was recognized was both the WCW and NWA championships. While WCW striped Flair of the title, the NWA still considered Flair their champion. Fast forward a couple years, that NWA championship became the WCW International Heavyweight Championship. So for a while WCW had two world titles, until they were unified in a Sting/Flair match. The WCW International Title (1993)  The WCW Heavyweight Championship (1993)  The "World Heavyweight Championship" has the most confusing title history in all of wrestling. |
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,584
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Post by 67 more on Dec 7, 2013 6:46:19 GMT -5
The World Heavyweight championship was created in 2002. It's not the WCW or NWA title, it is its own championship with its own lineage despite being the same belt design. WWE just like to pretend it's the same title when it's really not. www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/worldheavyweight |
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Dec 7, 2013 13:31:42 GMT -5
Only the WCW Championship Committee can determine this. Any members still alive?
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Chuck Conry
Dennis Stamp
zombies DON'T Run
Posts: 3,825
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Post by Chuck Conry on Dec 7, 2013 13:42:41 GMT -5
WWE owns WCW so if they want to say the World title is a spin-off of the WCW World Title and semi-share the history they can and have a valid right. Heck, they could have rightfully used the history as part of the world title all together. Saying it connects to the NWA is a bit more tricky.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 9:26:08 GMT -5
It's a made up championship on a television program about a pre determined sport.
The lineage is whatever WWE say it is imho.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 8, 2013 11:53:01 GMT -5
It is even more confusing than all this really. I think one could make a valid case that the World title now is the same as the WCW title, but that it has zero to do with the NWA title dating back to 1905 or 1948 or whenever. I do remember Linda McMahon mentioning after Survivor Series 2001 that the belt the Rock had was no longer the WCW title...it was the World title. Thus, for a month that belt was in fact the same title as the World title that HHH had later in 2002. That said, at best WWE can recognize it going back to 1991 or so when Flair was fired by WCW and Jim Herd. That's only when WCW had its own separate champion from the NWA, although it wasn't any different really. For a while WCW did have 2 titles floating around with the NWA title as well, but pulled out of the NWA and thus did the whole goofy International World title nonsense. Finally WCW realized no one cared and merged the two, but it still wasn't unifying the NWA title with WCW's since WCW was no longer an NWA member.
So yeah, best case scenario is that the World title they have now dates back to 1991 and Flair. Worst case is that it's a made up belt that WWE came up with in August 2002.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 13:38:56 GMT -5
The World Heavyweight championship was created in 2002. It's not the WCW or NWA title, it is its own championship with its own lineage despite being the same belt design. WWE just like to pretend it's the same title when it's really not. www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/worldheavyweightKinda how the NFL tells us the current (1999) incarnation of the Cleveland Browns is one and the same as it always was, when we all know better. Same thing, really. |
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Dec 8, 2013 14:25:06 GMT -5
Cool how the three tops titles in North American wrestling were spawned from splitting with the NWA title. TNA, WCW/WHC, WWE and, hell, even ECW belt all came out immediately splitting with the NWA. Makes the NWA belt seem like some sort of ancestor all pro-wrestling in the States. So did the AWA. The AWA was originally the "big" defection from the NWA. The confusion in the wake of the Carpentier-Thesz mess opened the doors for promotions such as the AWA & WWE to split from the NWA. |
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